Guards or conductors?

[notadriver]

As far as I know the OBM is there for the possible evacuation procedures in the London tunnels and as such it is a saftey critical role.
When two units run together the OBM has to remain in the rear 6 carriages to help with a possible evacuation into the tunnel. The driver looking after the the front 6 carriages.

As to your first point, no, a train cannot run without an OBM.

And because it cannot I don't class it as a DOO train.

 

[313103]

And because it cannot I don't class it as a DOO train.

What you consider it is in relevance of operation is completely different to how the company see it.

When these new services were introduced they actually wanted it to run DOO without another member of staff on board, now they run in DOO mode but with another person on board 'just in case', so as far as they are concerned they are operated in DOO mode.
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Except for the 37s and Mk2s on the Cumbrian Coast duties where no green flags are used. The Guard gives the right away to the Driver via a hand held Walky Talky. Apparently the Northern risk assessment decided the use of flags etc was unsafe and impractical due to the fact that at many stations the Guard actually had to unlock the doors and dispatch from an intermediate door rather than the guards van.

Not from what i have seen on you tube, where it clearly showed the Guard using a green flag from the DBSO, not to the driver but probably to the dispatch staff.

Guards often have to use the flag on FGW services when there is no Driver/Guard communication.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Not from what i have seen on you tube, where it clearly showed the Guard using a green flag from the DBSO, not to the driver but probably to the dispatch staff.

.

Oh right, my numerous visits, conversations with guards working the route and a conversation with a Northern safety manager were all in my imagination then.

The DBSO can be used at stations such as Preston, Lancaster, Carlisle, Barrow etc, but at many stations on the coast the train is too long for the platform and only certain doors are opened. The coaches are fitted with an SDO system which requires the Guard to release the door locks from certain locations down the train away from the DBSO depending on the length of the platform and which doors are opened.

I suppose the green flag method will always be the fall back in case of walky talky failure, in the same way that green flag dispatch is the fall back method if the bell buzzer does not work on a unit.

 

[notadriver]

What you consider it is in relevance of operation is completely different to how the company see it.



When these new services were introduced they actually wanted it to run DOO without another member of staff on board, now they run in DOO mode but with another person on board 'just in case', so as far as they are concerned they are operated in DOO mode.

DOO means driver only operation. Since they can't operate in service with only a driver they are not DOO. Simples. I'm pretty sure I know more about this particular operation than you do.

 

[455driver]

DOO means driver only operation. Since they can't operate in service with only a driver they are not DOO. Simples. I'm pretty sure I know more about this particular operation than you do.

Does the OBM have anything to do with the operation of the train?
If no then its DOO just as StrathClyde services are DOO even though they have a TE on board.

The mere fact the OBM has to be on board doesnt mean it isnt DOO.

 

[notadriver]

Does the OBM have anything to do with the operation of the train?

If no then its DOO just as StrathClyde services are DOO even though they have a TE on board.

But in the Strathclyde Model the TEs don't have to be on board. The OBMs must be on board the Javelin and they can hold the train at stations if necessary like a traditional conductor guard.

 

[455driver]

But in the Strathclyde Model the TEs don't have to be on board. The OBMs must be on board the Javelin and they can hold the train at stations if necessary like a traditional conductor guard.

So it is purely arbitrary then and could be withdrawn at any stage because they are not responsible for any partof the operation of the train.

Platform staff can hold the train as well so that doesnt mean much.

 

[najaB]

Perhaps it should be called MDOBTOTMNTBTT* operation?

(Mainly driver operated but the on-board train manager needs to be there too)

 

[BestWestern]

DOO means driver only operation. Since they can't operate in service with only a driver they are not DOO. Simples. I'm pretty sure I know more about this particular operation than you do.

It sounds like this is an example of 'DCO' - Driver Controlled Operation. The Driver actually does everything but there is a second staff member (albeit with a somewhat vague job role) on board. This is what FGW/GWR were trying to impose when IEP eventually enters service; both the traincrew Unions refused to accept it.