GWR Intercity Express Train (IEP) initial diagrams & allocations

[jimm]

Really????
So you’ve obviously missed the 9 car 800’s that have been knocking around in the Cotswolds. I’ve been on a mid morning 9 car train Paddington bound and there was about 5 of us in the carriage. One of my regular trains is 1W29, a pretty solid 800(5) turn and that is never rammed.

I’ve been on one recently that was pretty cosy with vestibules full but that was a 5 vice 9 and the vast majority of the vestibule dwellers got on at Hanborough and piled out at Oxford!

Also near in mind that the IETs are replacing HST, 180 & Turbos on the Cotswolds.

Where’s @jimm ? A daily traveller on the Cotswolds.

Away for a few days...

Unimpressed with GWR's removal of 8 carriage HSTs in favour of 5 carriage IETs on the Cotswold line.

Even during off-peak weekday services there is standing room only.

Departing PAD it's often fully loaded in the weekday afternoons (not peak services). This is where the IET has replaced what used to be an HST so a drop in capacity.

Which service(s) are you talking about? 'It' isn't exactly much of a clue, is it?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

With regard to acceleration under 25KV - not discussing diesel here -
the acceleration curves are quite different. 802's seem to start off at a higher acceleration rate to around 60mph then tailing off. The 390's curve seems more linear, not as aggressive at the start but then not tailing off as much as an 802. The 802 gets to 60mph and 100mph faster, - 125mph seems to be similar give or take a few seconds - bearing in mind we cannot currently measure them on exactly the same track conditions and driver. But the measurements i have suggest an 802 would be almost 20 - 30 seconds quicker from rest to around 3 miles. Note that the Pendolino's are now fitted with an eco mode that limits power output unless the driver disengages it to make up for lost time. So the 802 seems to be setup for faster station get aways. The Pendolino seems to have more grunt above 60mph , but not enough to make for the time lost from 0-60.

Thanks for this, very interesting comments.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Thanks for this, very interesting comments.

Yes, made for a good read. So the Pendo is like a powerful diesel car; good enough off the line but not the absolute quickest, however it has more mid/high-range grunt, and the IET is like a powerful petrol car; better off the line with a bit less "in-gear" power.

 

[jimm]

Perhaps we could stick to allocations and diagrams here...?

 

[cb00]

Which service(s) are you talking about? 'It' isn't exactly much of a clue, is it?

1622 departing PAD.

 

[jimm]

So we are talking about the last direct service on which off-peak tickets are valid out of Paddington to stations between Oxford and Worcester for three hours and which is most certainly a peak service from Oxford (departing 17.25) and calls, as one of the Worcester train managers was fond of announcing on departure from Oxford when this service was a Worcester duty, "everywhere to Great Malvern".

But having said all that, I normally use this train to get home from Reading once a week (and on random days of the week, so think I have a fair view of how it is used) and have rarely seen it full and standing, as opposed to just being a busy service with most seats in use.

When the 180s worked this train up until the end of last year, a limited number of people might have to stand on a particularly busy day but the extra seats in an IET have all but eliminated this.

There will always be some people who stand for the eight-minute hop from Oxford to Hanborough, even when they could get a seat without any difficulty - and the preceding 15.50 to Moreton-in-Marsh has a nasty habit of getting terminated short at Oxford if there has been disruption and it cannot get a path on the single line to Charlbury, with the inevitable result that a lot more people than usual end up on the 16.22.

 

[JN114]

1W33 1622 PAD to GMV was only diagrammed HST for 13 days - 2nd Jan to 15th Jan to cover withdrawal of Class 180s - before going over to 5/800 operation.

LTP, everything that was diagrammed as an HST has been replaced with either a 9 or 10/80X; or is still HST

 

[swt_passenger]

1W33 1622 PAD to GMV was only diagrammed HST for 13 days - 2nd Jan to 15th Jan to cover withdrawal of Class 180s - before going over to 5/800 operation.

LTP, everything that was diagrammed as an HST has been replaced with either a 9 or 10/80X; or is still HST

So by any normal reckoning, it’s never really been an HST service long enough to be considered permanent. I’d always assumed some HSTs were used only by default, because there was nothing else.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Just to clarify / confirm, these comments about 5-car units not replacing HSTs are applicable to Mon-Fri only. I’m certain there have been weekend services (most likely on Saturdays) which have replaced HSTs with 5-car trains. A particularly problematic one being the 0843 SO Great Malvern-Paddington which should have been attaching a second 5-car set at Oxford since IET diagram day one but has been unable to due to the ongoing coupling issues. The second set would have been tripped up on the 0852 SO Paddington-Oxford, split in the Down Turnback and attach to the Up service in question. Instead, it is being brought out of North Pole around 1120 to attach at Paddington to form the 1200 Paddington-Bristol TM.

All being re-written due to STP on many weeks however.

 

[jimm]

1W33 1622 PAD to GMV was only diagrammed HST for 13 days - 2nd Jan to 15th Jan to cover withdrawal of Class 180s - before going over to 5/800 operation.

LTP, everything that was diagrammed as an HST has been replaced with either a 9 or 10/80X; or is still HST

Re the 16.22, the one time a nine-car 800 has turned up on it when I was using it from Reading there were, needless to say, acres of empty seats, same as during the brief period of HST operation.

At weekends there are certainly services where five-cars appear to have replaced HSTs on a permanent basis but frankly several of them never needed an HST anyway - their use in the past was simply a reflection of the rolling stock available (and the conditions the DFT applied to the use of the 180s at weekends when they came back to FGW in 2012).

Though there are some Sunday mid-afternoon trains back towards London where providing a five-car does require a degree of optimism at certain times of the year about quite how many people have spent the weekend in the countryside/taken day trips to Oxford from London and are heading back when these trains reach Oxford from Hereford or Worcester - the 14.32 from Hereford being a case in point.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Sundays are always difficult - even with a thinned timetable there are too many IC-type departures from London before sufficient arrivals come in to make diagramming a straightforward experience. For this very reason there's historically often been a Turbo on the 08xx Padd-Hereford depending on how severe the impact of each week's 2-track timetable is. The first IC arrival into Padd is about 0945 but this can be pushed as late as 1000 which then required an extra HST at OOC overnight, or if the depot was full, required an extra Turbo outstabled in Paddington station. Not so much of a problem now with IETs, except when maintenance possessions block Lines 1-3 at Ladbroke Grove until 0800 or beyond!

 

[158820]

Today there is 1 x 5 instead of 9, 1 x 5 instead of 10 and 1 x 8 instead of 10.

 

[jimm]

And this morning there was an awful lot of GWR rolling stock in the wrong place as a result of yesterday's disruption, caused by the problem with the overhead wires in West London.

As is noted under the odd cancelled service on GWR Journeycheck - a more general application of this note might have been a good idea.

06:42 Hereford to London Paddington due 09:46 will be cancelled.
This is due to damage to the overhead electric wires.
Further Information
This train service cancellation has arisen as a result of the level of disruption and displacement of carriages which occurred following the damage to the overhead wires near Paddington on Sunday.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yesterday's 1203 Padd to PZ was 5 vice 10. Full and standing from Paddington, no Pullman dining. I'm glad I drive to Cornwall these days.

 

[irish_rail]

Yesterday's 1203 Padd to PZ was 5 vice 10. Full and standing from Paddington, no Pullman dining. I'm glad I drive to Cornwall these days.

Was the same yesterday too on that service.
You will not be the first or last customer we lose over the coming year on this route sadly.

 

[Marlo36]

Can anyone tell me if the 10.33 from PAD to PGN is a HST or IET as I am planning to book for the 21st February and also where can I find the LTP Timetable ?

 

[JN114]

Can anyone tell me if the 10.33 from PAD to PGN is a HST or IET as I am planning to book for the 21st February and also where can I find the LTP Timetable ?

Way too early to say at the moment. In theory by late Feb next year a fair majority of services will be IET operated; but I do know Hitachi are struggling to get the units accepted for traffic at present so that may slow their March somewhat...

What do you mean by “LTP timetable” that you’re trying to find.

 

[sufian123]

Hi have 800s or 802s reached Hereford yet? I’m thinking of going to Worcester on Sunday? Usually I’m asking for Sunday’s.

 

[CMRail]

Can anyone tell me if the 10.33 from PAD to PGN is a HST or IET as I am planning to book for the 21st February and also where can I find the LTP Timetable ?

By then probably an IET however you never know.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Yesterday's 1203 Padd to PZ was 5 vice 10. Full and standing from Paddington, no Pullman dining. I'm glad I drive to Cornwall these days.

I always drive to Plymouth (albeit from Manchester in order to avoid Voyagers; the HSTs always seem to be at inappropriate times for me! Why didn't they just build a few 800s as 10 cars; 2 First; half first/diner, 7 second??)

 

[JN114]

I always drive to Plymouth (albeit from Manchester in order to avoid Voyagers; the HSTs always seem to be at inappropriate times for me! Why didn't they just build a few 800s as 10 cars; 2 First; half first/diner, 7 second??)

Because there are a number of places on the network where 10 car units struggle to fit; thus reducing flexibility.

 

[jimm]

Hi have 800s or 802s reached Hereford yet? I’m thinking of going to Worcester on Sunday? Usually I’m asking for Sunday’s.

800s have been running to Hereford since December 31 (which was a Sunday) last year. The 13.32 and 14.32 from Hereford to Paddington should both be worked by IETs, but of course there are still no 100% guarantees at the moment.

 

[sufian123]

800s have been running to Hereford since December 31 (which was a Sunday) last year. The 13.32 and 14.32 from Hereford to Paddington should both be worked by IETs, but of course there are still no 100% guarantees at the moment.

Thanks. At least I know they going.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Can anyone tell me if the 10.33 from PAD to PGN is a HST or IET as I am planning to book for the 21st February and also where can I find the LTP Timetable ?

It should be an IET by 21/02/19. LTP Conversion is imminent.

 

[Agdron]

Does anyone know all the current times for the IET trains to be in the south west.

 

[saxsux]

Something odd on 1C05, the 07.57 Paddington-Penzance service. Two 5-car units but apparently only the front 5 are available for passengers. Short staffed, or some sort of technical problem?

Impressively, after leaving Paddington 17L, it's managed to claw back a fair bit of time. Only 8L from Exeter. I suspect, with only half the available doors, the delays are from slower loading and unloading.

 

[JN114]

In the absence of a customer host to fulfill the front set lead role the train manager is entitled to work the train as a 5 car - and it appears that the TM has elected to take that option.

 

[sufian123]

Hi I was wondering if the London Paddington-CMM spilts at Swansea? As the rear 5 cars had coaches letters A onwards? Is it same for the Taunton service. I saw it last night. Thanks in advance.

 

[JN114]

Hi I was wondering if the London Paddington-CMM spilts at Swansea? As the rear 5 cars had coaches letters A onwards? Is it same for the Taunton service. I saw it last night. Thanks in advance.

Only 5 cars permitted beyond Swansea, so if you were on a 10 it will have been dividing at Swansea.

Swansea is the only place where splitting and joining happens in service.

Lower-lettered coaches should be the Country End unit.

 

[sufian123]

Only 5 cars permitted beyond Swansea, so if you were on a 10 it will have been dividing at Swansea.

Swansea is the only place where splitting and joining happens in service.

Lower-lettered coaches should be the Country End unit.

Thanks. It was 10 coaches. Explains it why it was at the rear 5 coaches showing lowered letters. Seeing on RTT it reverses at Swansea.