GWR Turbo cascade progress to Bristol region services

[swt_passenger]

...I do think now that as long as they do not say on the route to long and they all operate in 5 coach formations they should be okay for a short term solution for increasing capacity on the route.

There’s no evidence at all that they are a short term solution. I think they’ll potentially be on Portsmouth Cardiff for a long while yet.

 

[Nammer]

What is the 6.30am from Cardiff to Portsmouth normally using these days on a Saturday?

Usually that is a Turbo 3 car 166

 

[pompeyfan]

There’s no evidence at all that they are a short term solution. I think they’ll potentially be on Portsmouth Cardiff for a long while yet.

I would agree that that they’ll now likely be on the route until the whole West Fleet is replaced, or at least the long distance stuff. Effectively from what I can see the west routes can be split into 2, local metro around Cornwall and the branches, Torbay and Exeter and around Bristol, then the long distance stuff such as Cardiff - Portsmouth/Penzance/Taunton, Weymouth services and also Brighton services. Obviously not enough long distance stock to go around hence why metro stock (turbos) are being used on 4 hour+ journeys.

Speculative, but if the SWR diesel fleet is replaced in the next franchise, will they go to razor blades, or could they be distributed across GWR and possibly Northern?

 

[supervc-10]

Would there be any issues with 6-car units on Cardiff-Portsmouth? I could see that there might be a requirement for SDO on some of the places like Trowbridge, but would overhanging the platform be a problem on any of them?

I know the SWR 159s already have some kind of SDO, as they have 6-car units stopping at Tisbury which can only hold 3 cars. Upping Cardiff-Portsmouth to a 6-car 159 at peak times would be great.

 

[pompeyfan]

They’re trialling an ASDO system but it’s completely different to the way that SWTs diesel fleet work (which I gather is quite simple). It’s slightly different as well where SWR units are walk through, so someone trapped can walk into coach 3, with turbos passengers would need to be in the correct unit the station before.

 

[swt_passenger]

I would agree that that they’ll now likely be on the route until the whole West Fleet is replaced, or at least the long distance stuff. Effectively from what I can see the west routes can be split into 2, local metro around Cornwall and the branches, Torbay and Exeter and around Bristol, then the long distance stuff such as Cardiff - Portsmouth/Penzance/Taunton, Weymouth services and also Brighton services. Obviously not enough long distance stock to go around hence why metro stock (turbos) are being used on 4 hour+ journeys.

Speculative, but if the SWR diesel fleet is replaced in the next franchise, will they go to razor blades, or could they be distributed across GWR and possibly Northern?

End of franchise, plus a couple of years to build replacements, then they’d be nearly 40 years old. I would hope all 158 or 159 are life expired by then. That is, GWR’s & Northern’s should also be up for replacement by then...

 

[pompeyfan]

By the same scale so should Turbos though. The question is, can the treasury afford to replace all these 15x and 16x units (excluding the 168s)

 

[supervc-10]

They’re trialling an ASDO system but it’s completely different to the way that SWTs diesel fleet work (which I gather is quite simple). It’s slightly different as well where SWR units are walk through, so someone trapped can walk into coach 3, with turbos passengers would need to be in the correct unit the station before.

Well, I was more thinking if the 159s were cascaded onto the route, where the same simple SWR system could probably work.

End of franchise, plus a couple of years to build replacements, then they’d be nearly 40 years old. I would hope all 158 or 159 are life expired by then. That is, GWR’s & Northern’s should also be up for replacement by then...

I would love to see a bi-mode replacing the SWR 159s, but that's another matter. When looked after, they're decent units IMO (both 158 and 159). Bit noisy, but comfortable (when the AC is functioning) and a million times nicer onboard than other 15x units.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Would there be any issues with 6-car units on Cardiff-Portsmouth? I could see that there might be a requirement for SDO on some of the places like Trowbridge, but would overhanging the platform be a problem on any of them?

Trowbridge could do with platform 1 being extended towards the Stallard Street overbridge so that's its roughly the same length as platform 2 as platform 2 can already take up to six cars.

Westbury can take up to ten coaches, then you've got Bradford on Avon which I think the station is listed - maybe "doing a Hebden Bridge" could allow the platforms to be extended.

 

[JN114]

166213 and 166221 should be migrating east this morning to release further 387 units for mods before heading to Heathrow Express.

There will be a new 6 car suburban Turbo diagram from Monday, likely to run through to December when Crossrail releases all these extra 16x back West.

Further 2+4 HST diagrams will be introduced in the Bristol area to compensate in the interim.

The West Turbo fleet stands as:-

165118/119/120/127/129/132/134/137
166205-212/214-220

 

[adrock1976]

166213 and 166221 should be migrating east this morning to release further 387 units for mods before heading to Heathrow Express.

There will be a new 6 car suburban Turbo diagram from Monday, likely to run through to December when Crossrail releases all these extra 16x back West.

Further 2+4 HST diagrams will be introduced in the Bristol area to compensate in the interim.

The West Turbo fleet stands as:-

165118/119/120/127/129/132/134/137
166205-212/214-220

Regarding the West Turbo fleet, do all of those have their home depot in Bristol now, or do they still swap over at Reading?

 

[Siemens Staines]

166213 and 166221 should be migrating east this morning to release further 387 units for mods before heading to Heathrow Express.

There will be a new 6 car suburban Turbo diagram from Monday, likely to run through to December when Crossrail releases all these extra 16x back West.

Further 2+4 HST diagrams will be introduced in the Bristol area to compensate in the interim.

The West Turbo fleet stands as:-

165118/119/120/127/129/132/134/137
166205-212/214-220

Thank you for that information on the cascade. Is 165131 not a West unit?

 

[JN114]

Regarding the West Turbo fleet, do all of those have their home depot in Bristol now, or do they still swap over at Reading?

West Turbos are Bristol based
East Turbos are Reading based

There are some mods being done to BOTH fleets at SPM, and some mods being done to BOTH fleets at RTCD. This necessitates some churn of units between the two; but these are just works moves, not permanent transfers.
For example, at the moment 165113 is having some work done at SPM, but it remains a part of the East fleet, and will swap over with another east unit when it has been done.

Thank you for that information on the cascade. Is 165131 not a West unit?

Yes, omission on my post - 131 is a West unit.

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

Yesterday, I saw a Turbo at Reading working the 17:33 Reading to Paddington from Didcot Parkway, is this a booked or unusual working? Those services are normally 387s.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Yesterday, I saw a Turbo at Reading working the 17:33 Reading to Paddington from Didcot Parkway, is this a booked or unusual working? Those services are normally 387s.

I think it's a temporary working til this December (quite a few complaints about Turbos running instead of the 387's have been made to GWR on Twitter).

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

(quite a few complaints about Turbos running instead of the 387's have been made to GWR on Twitter).

Yes, I can understand that, Electrostars are much better for standing room and are overall cleaner and brighter, and have 2+2 seating.

 

[FGW_DID]

It’s a booked Turbo working (booked for 2x3cars).

 

[PHILIPE]

166213 and 166221 should be migrating east this morning to release further 387 units for mods before heading to Heathrow Express.

There will be a new 6 car suburban Turbo diagram from Monday, likely to run through to December when Crossrail releases all these extra 16x back West.

Further 2+4 HST diagrams will be introduced in the Bristol area to compensate in the interim.

The West Turbo fleet stands as:-

165118/119/120/127/129/132/134/137
166205-212/214-220

An offshoot from this post here:-

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-to-operate-short-hstgti-sets.145727/page-49 (Post #1450)

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

On GWR's Twitter feed, there were 2 complaints about the Turbos on the routes to and from Cardiff and Portsmouth. Personally, especially with not feeling great yesterday in particular, I vote a seat on a 166 or 165 than stand in a 158!

Plus the 5-car Turbos on these routes have I'd say 420-440 seats which would be more than double on a Class 158 and more than tripple on a 2-car Class 150 substitution.

Also, when at idle, the Turbos are much less polluting than the 158's unless one of them is feeling a bit ill.

As regards refurbishment which I'm aware has been discussed on here quite a bit, even GWR admitted to someone on Twitter yesterday I think that they're still due for refurbishment. So hopefully we can look forward to no longer seeing the pink and purple colours.

 

[Flinn Reed]

On GWR's Twitter feed, there were 2 complaints about the Turbos on the routes to and from Cardiff and Portsmouth. Personally, especially with not feeling great yesterday in particular, I vote a seat on a 166 or 165 than stand in a 158!

Plus the 5-car Turbos on these routes have I'd say 420-440 seats which would be more than double on a Class 158 and more than tripple on a 2-car Class 150 substitution.

Also, when at idle, the Turbos are much less polluting than the 158's unless one of them is feeling a bit ill.

As regards refurbishment which I'm aware has been discussed on here quite a bit, even GWR admitted to someone on Twitter yesterday I think that they're still due for refurbishment. So hopefully we can look forward to no longer seeing the pink and purple colours.

I think Chiltern did a very good job of refurbishing their 165s a number of years ago, replacing the opening windows with a more modern design, and replacing the seats at the ends of each carriage with higher-backed ones (similar to those in Chiltern's 172s), and with a 2+2 layout to be more spacious.

Could we see GWR carrying out a similar standard of refurbishment? Changing the style of seating could make the 165s/166s more suitable for some of the longer distance services they operate. FGW did previously replace the seats in the 143s/153s and most 150s. With the Turbos, it could also be effective to keep the two classes on separate routes more so, possibly with different seating styles in each during refurbishment - 166s could be kept on longer distance services (e.g. Cardiff to Portsmouth), with 165s mostly kept on local services around Bristol, as well as the Thames Valley branch lines.

 

[VT 390]

As regards refurbishment which I'm aware has been discussed on here quite a bit, even GWR admitted to someone on Twitter yesterday I think that they're still due for refurbishment. So hopefully we can look forward to no longer seeing the pink and purple colours.

I,m sure the other day I saw a 165/166 (not sure which) with green seats

I think Chiltern did a very good job of refurbishing their 165s a number of years ago, replacing the opening windows with a more modern design, and replacing the seats at the ends of each carriage with higher-backed ones (similar to those in Chiltern's 172s), and with a 2+2 layout to be more spacious.

Could we see GWR carrying out a similar standard of refurbishment? Changing the style of seating could make the 165s/166s more suitable for some of the longer distance services they operate. FGW did previously replace the seats in the 143s/153s and most 150s. With the Turbos, it could also be effective to keep the two classes on separate routes more so, possibly with different seating styles in each during refurbishment - 166s could be kept on longer distance services (e.g. Cardiff to Portsmouth), with 165s mostly kept on local services around Bristol, as well as the Thames Valley branch lines.

I thought both the 166 and 165's were needed on Cardiff to Portsmouth route to make them 5 carriages?

 

[D2007wsm]

I think Chiltern did a very good job of refurbishing their 165s a number of years ago, replacing the opening windows with a more modern design, and replacing the seats at the ends of each carriage with higher-backed ones (similar to those in Chiltern's 172s), and with a 2+2 layout to be more spacious.

Could we see GWR carrying out a similar standard of refurbishment? Changing the style of seating could make the 165s/166s more suitable for some of the longer distance services they operate. FGW did previously replace the seats in the 143s/153s and most 150s. With the Turbos, it could also be effective to keep the two classes on separate routes more so, possibly with different seating styles in each during refurbishment - 166s could be kept on longer distance services (e.g. Cardiff to Portsmouth), with 165s mostly kept on local services around Bristol, as well as the Thames Valley branch lines.

The seats in the class 143/150/153 were replaced in the Wessex Trains era before First took over the franchise. All First have done is recover the cushions and change the coloured hand rails at the top.

 

[Wychwood93]

I,m sure the other day I saw a 165/166 (not sure which) with green sea

I thought both the 166 and 165's were needed on Cardiff to Portsmouth route to make them 5 carriages?

5-cars can also be a 150 and a 158 - the former a little grim, the latter more acceptable. To end up on the former for the whole Cardiff/Pompey trip would be like hell on earth - not everybody would get off and switch to the latter!

 

[PHILIPE]

I,m sure the other day I saw a 165/166 (not sure which) with green sea

I thought both the 166 and 165's were needed on Cardiff to Portsmouth route to make them 5 carriages?

They have other work as well.

 

[Parallel]

Trowbridge could do with platform 1 being extended towards the Stallard Street overbridge so that's its roughly the same length as platform 2 as platform 2 can already take up to six cars.

Westbury can take up to ten coaches, then you've got Bradford on Avon which I think the station is listed - maybe "doing a Hebden Bridge" could allow the platforms to be extended.

I don’t think Platform 1 at Bradford can be extended for some reason. Not sure why but it wasn’t extended a couple of years ago when Platform 2 was. I also read the proposal which showed Platform 1 as having no plans to be extended.

You would probably also need to extend Filton Abbey Wood, possibly Warminster and maybe Romsey too? Also Oldfield Park, and maybe Freshford again. I don’t think it’s going to happen.

5-cars can also be a 150 and a 158 - the former a little grim, the latter more acceptable. To end up on the former for the whole Cardiff/Pompey trip would be like hell on earth - not everybody would get off and switch to the latter!

I say a lot of things about GWR but their 150s in their current state are decent. Lots of opening windows, comfy seats with arm rests and fold down tables. I would not mind spending two hours or more on one of those. I wouldn’t be so keen to spend 2 hours on the Turbos due to the uncomfortable and compact seats. If you have three people sitting on the row of three seats, there really isn’t enough room.

 

[Nammer]

I,m sure the other day I saw a 165/166 (not sure which) with green sea?

That’ll be 166205

 

[TJDevon]

Hopefully this is the correct thread to raise this issue!

What I am trying to weigh up is whether come December GWR will have enough Turbos to operate all their diagrams with the planned number of coaches. Are there any extra diagrams to be taken into account? There doesn't seem to be much spare capacity at the moment. Will they still need the 150 that provides strengthening morning and afternoon?

 

[Siemens Staines]

In December the six 166s that are at Reading to cover for 387 replacements (currently 166201,203,204,208,213,221) should return to Bristol plus perhaps one or two of the eleven Reading 2 car 165s?

 

[Apedlar12]

In December the six 166s that are at Reading to cover for 387 replacements (currently 166201,203,204,208,213,221) should return to Bristol plus perhaps one or two of the eleven Reading 2 car 165s?

If that happens, what will replace the 166s which are currently replacing the 387s??

 

[jimm]

If that happens, what will replace the 166s which are currently replacing the 387s??

Transport for London Class 345s are taking over the stopping service between Paddington and Reading from the December timetable change