Here comes the (not too clever) bride

[theageofthetra]

I'm sorry but I'm unable to post the link on here but Network Rail have just tweeted a picture off an official wedding photographer page of the 'happy couple'on a foot crossing with the photographer and tripod presumably some way back in the six foot.

If someone can post the picture- does anyone know where it was taken, line speeds etc (looks like a semaphore gantry to the rear) & is non-electrified track.

NR are less than happy about it and have presumably contacted the photographer concerned.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I saw one on Twitter this weekend courtesy of someone I follow from this forum, if the same place then apparently it is at Moreton on Lugg in Herefordshire (yes, the same place as the 2010 fatality).

 

[AlterEgo]

Can't see NR have tweeted this from their main account? Which account was it?

 

[greatkingrat]

It is on the NR Press Office account

https://twitter.com/networkrailPR

 

[Bromley boy]

Presumably using a foot crossing other than for its intended purpose counts as trespass?

Perhaps an example should be made and the photographer and couple should be prosecuted!

 

[DaleCooper]

That looked Photoshopped to me, I don't know they were ever on the railway.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Presumably using a foot crossing other than for its intended purpose counts as trespass?

Perhaps an example should be made and the photographer and couple should be prosecuted!

Well, I presume you are asking (and answering) the same question as I had: what crime are the couple committing? Surely, just by standing there, they can't be breaking the law? Or ?

The photographer, OTOH, would appear to be on the six foot and kind of self incriminatory.

But of course IMO NR should prosecute the photographer at least - otherwise, what is the point of posting this? No prosecution = an invitation to repeat this 'daringly innovative' pic. (Actually, what is the point of this pic, unless one of the couple is on the railway?)

 

[theageofthetra]

It is on the NR Press Office account

https://twitter.com/networkrailPR

Thanks for posting that. Camilla Reynolds is based in Cotswolds/West Country so any guesses on the location?. The new picture now clearly shows the semaphores and it does look like a road crossing rather than a path so possibly she took the picture on the road not the 6ft?- still stupid though.

 

[PeterC]

I agree with DaleCooper, it does look photoshopped but somebody must have taken the picture of the track in the first place.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Thanks for posting that. Camilla Reynolds is based in Cotswolds/West Country so any guesses on the location?. The new picture now clearly shows the semaphores and it does look like a road crossing rather than a path so possibly she took the picture on the road not the 6ft?- still stupid though.

It is at Moreton on Lugg - see https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.1...127.56656&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i13312!8i6656

 

[theageofthetra]

It is at Moreton on Lugg - see https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.1...127.56656&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i13312!8i6656

Thanks- so it is a road crossing so she could have well been standing on the road then-Its stupid but does that make it a bylaw offence if taken quickly & barriers open to road users?

 

[TimboM]

Thanks- so it is a road crossing so she could have well been standing on the road then-Its stupid but does that make it a bylaw offence if taken quickly & barriers open to road users?

If you zoom out from the link MidnightFlyer has posted it's quite clear the couple are standing on the marked footpath part of the level crossing and the photographer is either on the road part or (my guess) the opposite footpath.

I don't know the answer as to whether it's a (by-law) offence to linger on a level crossing for photos - posts above suggest it is and you'd hope NR have thought this through and checked their facts quoting the trespass fine.

 

[theageofthetra]

If you zoom out from the link MidnightFlyer has posted it's quite clear the couple are standing on the marked footpath part of the level crossing and the photographer is either on the road part or (my guess) the opposite footpath.

I don't know the answer as to whether it's a (by-law) offence to linger on a level crossing for photos - posts above suggest it is and you'd hope NR have thought this through and checked their facts quoting the trespass fine.

Indeed. Especially as they have copied in the photographers twitter account.

 

[EM2]

I would think that section 7 would cover it?

7. Music, sound, advertising and carrying on a trade
(2) Except with written permission from an Operator no person on the railway
shall:
(i) display anything for the purpose of advertising or publicity, or
distribute anything; or
(ii) sell or expose or offer anything for sale; or
(iii) tout for, or solicit money, reward, custom or employment of any
kind.

 

[David Andrews]

Is a level crossing when it is open to traffic a road or a railway or both?

 

[theageofthetra]

I would think that section 7 would cover it?

Ahh that explains a later tweet from NR press office about how non journalists contact them. I suspect the photographer involved was unaware of this rule as I suspect most wouldn't be.

 

[DaleCooper]

The photo of the railway appears to have been taken with a telephoto lens causing foreshortening (are there any experts who can comment?) so it might have been taken from a position not on the railway and, as I said before, the couple were photoshopped onto that picture.

 

[mildertduck]

If they are both on the demarcated pavement, and the barriers at the crossing are up, I don't think there's an issue, providing that the crossing is vacated once the barriers close. It is probably more for media licensing purposes from Section 7

 

[dosxuk]

Ahh that explains a later tweet from NR press office about how non journalists contact them. I suspect the photographer involved was unaware of this rule as I suspect most wouldn't be.

The tweet about non-journalists is older, but pinned so it appears at the top of their feed above more recent messages.

 

[Bantamzen]

If you zoom out from the link MidnightFlyer has posted it's quite clear the couple are standing on the marked footpath part of the level crossing and the photographer is either on the road part or (my guess) the opposite footpath.

I don't know the answer as to whether it's a (by-law) offence to linger on a level crossing for photos - posts above suggest it is and you'd hope NR have thought this through and checked their facts quoting the trespass fine.

Even if the couple and photographer were legitimately on a public highway as opposed to trespassing on the railway, its still not a good idea to hang around on lines like that, especially with so many accidents in recent years. I think NR are well within their rights to highlight this, and the photographer ought to know better. Looking at her Twitter feed, it seems the offending photograph has been removed without comment!

 

[Mag_seven]

Whether its photoshopped or not or whether the photographer took the photo from non-railway land is not important here - what IS important is the (poor) message that it is sending out.....

 

[DaleCooper]

Whether its photo shopped or not or whether the photographer took the photo from non-railway land is not important here - what IS important is the message that it is sending out.....

I agree and that's probably NR's view. I was just pointing out that there may have been no trespass involved.

 

[DarloRich]

Whether its photoshopped or not or whether the photographer took the photo from non-railway land is not important here - what IS important is the (poor) message that it is sending out.....

and the winner is^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[70014IronDuke]

and the winner is^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I respectfully (most especially to a man from Darlington) disagree.

For me, there are two issues here, and they are and have become confused.

1) Bad and dangerous practice: viz, should the photographer or happy couple have photos taken in any way encourage 'hanging around' or photographing on the railway - even if it is a place, like a level crossing, where the public is allowed.

The anwser to the above, as all in here would agree, is of course "no".

2) But NR has not just condemned the photo on those grounds: I would argue that it has implied trespass - some sort of infraction of the law or by-law - which is punishable by a fine of up to GBP 1,000. Indeed, I'd say it has implied it will launch a case against those taking part in this photo.

If it is not the case that the law has been broken, nor that NR is going to bring a case, I'd say say NR is in the wrong, and the couple and/or photographer could have a case against NR for some form of damaged reputation - even if their act of being photographed at the crossing is stupid and dangerous.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I respectfully (most especially to a man from Darlington) disagree.

For me, there are two issues here, and they are and have become confused.

1) Bad and dangerous practice: viz, should the photographer or happy couple have photos taken in any way encourage 'hanging around' or photographing on the railway - even if it is a place, like a level crossing, where the public is allowed.

The anwser to the above, as all in here would agree, is of course "no".

2) But NR has not just condemned the photo on those grounds: I would argue that it has implied trespass - some sort of infraction of the law or by-law - which is punishable by a fine of up to GBP 1,000. Indeed, I'd say it has implied it will launch a case against those taking part in this photo.

If it is not the case that the law has been broken, nor that NR is going to bring a case, I'd say say NR is in the wrong, and the couple and/or photographer could have a case against NR for some form of damaged reputation - even if their act of being photographed at the crossing is stupid and dangerous.

Now I admit I don't know the actual laws around level crossings, but I would imagine there is something that covers "proper use"? Aka yes the public are legally allowed on the crossing to actually cross the track, but not to do things that are not related to crossing the track (like posing for photos).

 

[DarloRich]

I respectfully (most especially to a man from Darlington) disagree.

For me, there are two issues here, and they are and have become confused.

1) Bad and dangerous practice: viz, should the photographer or happy couple have photos taken in any way encourage 'hanging around' or photographing on the railway - even if it is a place, like a level crossing, where the public is allowed.

The anwser to the above, as all in here would agree, is of course "no".

2) But NR has not just condemned the photo on those grounds: I would argue that it has implied trespass - some sort of infraction of the law or by-law - which is punishable by a fine of up to GBP 1,000. Indeed, I'd say it has implied it will launch a case against those taking part in this photo.

If it is not the case that the law has been broken, nor that NR is going to bring a case, I'd say say NR is in the wrong, and the couple and/or photographer could have a case against NR for some form of damaged reputation - even if their act of being photographed at the crossing is stupid and dangerous.

I think you are over thinking it. They should not be there. They are quite silly. There doesn't seem to be an implication they will prosecute these people more that NR have used that silliness as an opportunity to remind people not to trespass.

 

[GB]

The lighting, shadows and funky aura around the groom look iffy to me...

 

[alxndr]

The photographer's explanation from their twitter feed:

It was a level crossing we were crossing and paused for a shot. Would definitely advise against tresspassing!!

I wouldn't describe that as pausing, and strongly disagree with the image being put out, regardless of the exact laws surrounding level crossing use. Especially considering that at first glance it does appear that the photographer is stood in the 6ft.

 

[lejog]

Presumably using a foot crossing other than for its intended purpose counts as trespass?

Perhaps an example should be made and the photographer and couple should be prosecuted!

I don't know the answer as to whether it's a (by-law) offence to linger on a level crossing for photos - posts above suggest it is and you'd hope NR have thought this through and checked their facts quoting the trespass fine.

Now I admit I don't know the actual laws around level crossings, but I would imagine there is something that covers "proper use"? Aka yes the public are legally allowed on the crossing to actually cross the track, but not to do things that are not related to crossing the track (like posing for photos).

There is a lot of presuming and much imagination going on in this thread. According the ORR page on Level Crossing Law

other crossing users - other users (for example pedestrians, cyclists and horse-riders) must also obey instruction signs, warning lights and alarms. If there are no barriers or lights, stop, look and listen, then look again before crossing.

According to Google Streetview there are no instruction signs at the location and I assume the barriers were up and the lights not flashing.

Being on a public road (I've checked the Herefordshire definitive map), trespass does not come into play at all and the NR twitter team are totally incorrect to suggest it. Whether the Railway Byelaws Section 7 is enforceable on a Right of Way is my view unlikely.

 

[Bromley boy]

Is a level crossing when it is open to traffic a road or a railway or both?

The common sense answer has to be that it remains network rail private property with an implied permission to access in order to cross (i.e. the
purpose for which it's intended).

Being on the crossing when barriers were down would constitute trespassing on the railway - a criminal offence.

This is indeed confirmed by the following CPS guidance (the underlying act creating the offence is the Railways Act 1868:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_transport_offences/#trespass

Section 23 Regulation of the Railways Act 1868: this prohibits passage upon or across any railway line except for the purpose of crossing the line at an authorised point. A person commits an offence by so doing after having once received warning by the railway company, their servants or agents, to desist

Not sure if the act of stopping to take a photo mid point on a foot crossing would itself create an act of trespass - if it was in breach of guidance giving to crossing users it seems possible that it might.