Here's something different from the Chinese

[crewmeal]

http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/china-plans-beijing-to-london-high-speed-train/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter

Move over UK train operators here come the Chinese through the tunnel - good luck with such a venture!!!

 

[GB]

Is there a market for such a long high speed line? Surely a distance like that would best suit aviation?

 

[First class]

Is there a market for such a long high speed line? Surely a distance like that would best suit aviation?

Unless a new way of powering aircraft is found within the next 20-30years, I think flying anywhere will be a very rich man's hobby.

An electric, high speed rail network connecting continents is a very good project... costs will probably be prohibitive at first, until everyone gets desperate. Nuclear powered, of course.

 

[TsLeng]

Passenger rail maybe not.
Freight yes! Europe to China freight is already possible.

A fully loaded aircraft is actually not that bad in terms of energy usage. With further advancement in technology, we could see more efficient planes around.

 

[stuartmoss]

That would be one heck of a journey, I'd fully back it. We definitely need more destinations via train from the UK.

 

[crewmeal]

If it was routed through India and the Middle East you would need visas for:

India, Pakistan, Iran (If they co-operated) Syria and Turkey. Apart from Turkey these aree not £10 ones you get at borders.

There needs to be a lot of politics involved here me thinks

 

[MCR247]

This is old news, and has been posted already

 

[Death]

Move over UK train operators here come the Chinese through the tunnel - good luck with such a venture!!!

Nice, assuming that Chinese national railways can actually push through the building/routeing permissions and the political melting pots that'll inevitably be encountered on the way! This one's got my full support though! 8)

Is there a market for such a long high speed line? Surely a distance like that would best suit aviation?

Unless a new way of powering aircraft is found within the next 20-30years, I think flying anywhere will be a very rich man's hobby.

That, and - If the Chinese would be happy to listen to my ideas and designs on international XHSR - London to Beijing would work out much faster by rail than flying anyway! hock:

After all: Who's going to want to fly for eight hours when there's a train that'll happily do the journey in a quarter of that time, city-centre to city-centre, and all without having to go through some over-complicated and badly designed (I'm looking at ye, Heathrow! ) terminal complex...

 

[GB]

After all: Who's going to want to fly for eight hours when there's a train that'll happily do the journey in a quarter of that time, city-centre to city-centre, and all without having to go through some over-complicated and badly designed (I'm looking at ye, Heathrow! ) terminal complex

The report suggests times would be cut between China and England to two days not two hours.

 

[TsLeng]

Nice, assuming that Chinese national railways can actually push through the building/routeing permissions and the political melting pots that'll inevitably be encountered on the way! This one's got my full support though! 8)

That, and - If the Chinese would be happy to listen to my ideas and designs on international XHSR - London to Beijing would work out much faster by rail than flying anyway! hock:

After all: Who's going to want to fly for eight hours when there's a train that'll happily do the journey in a quarter of that time, city-centre to city-centre, and all without having to go through some over-complicated and badly designed (I'm looking at ye, Heathrow! ) terminal complex...

Is your plan physically moving the whole island off to the coast near China?
Then building a tunnel to it? hahahahaha

:-P

 

[Dai.]

I'd use it.

It is most certainly something the more relaxed traveller would like, as I am an avid traveller being able to catch a train from London to Beijing stopping off at the different countries on the way would definitely be the perfect holiday.

 

[ChrisCooper]

It's not going to compete with air for journey time, not by a long way, so the next thing is going to be the cost vs. comfort tradeoff. Competing on comfort could be quite easy, you'd need decent size beths which would convert into day accomodation, reasonable shower facilities and of cource a food service, and really that would be the minimum. It would come at a price though, and restrict capacity. Could the comfort factor be made good enough and come at a price cheap enough to compete with the airlines, given how much slower it is? It's going to have to be very cheap compared to the airlines before you can start providing long haul economy class airline comfort and service.

I think conventional high speed rail can only really compete with short haul air travel, it's going to take Maglev to compete seriously even with medium haul air travel, and probably something more than todays maglev to really compete with long haul air travel. Of cource long distance high speed rail would compete with short haul air travel over short distances. I imagine A London to Beijing high speed line would get a lot of use, but mostly over fairly small parts of the route, not right the way through.

 

[Death]

The report suggests times would be cut between China and England to two days, not two hours.

Is your plan physically moving the whole island off to the coast near China, then building a tunnel to it?

Not quite, not quite...
I've long been a believer in various technological pursuits - Especially the pushing of machinery to limits never imagined, let alone achieved - And in my opinion the speed "limit" for a well laid line between here and China run on 370s could easily be pushed a little higher than we'd normally run on the SNCF LGV designs we currently use.

According to Globefeed.com, the distance between Heathrow and Pudong is about 5,741 miles as the Crow flies, which would take about an hour at 6,000mph. If ye drop the target time down to three hours, the required speed drops by a third to 2,000mph...And I'm sure that a slightly hacked-up APT could manage that without breaking a sweat, given that (By my standards) 12Kmph is still slower than XHSR ought to be.

Personally though, two hours would only be the journey time for the initial period whilst the line's being run-in and the bugs are being ironed out. I'd be happy to settle for 30-minute fast workings, though...

It's not going to compete with air for journey time, not by a long way, so the next thing is going to be the cost vs. comfort tradeoff.

Not yet maybe...But if ever they let me have my wicked ways with the railway, air travel'll become unnecessary for everything bar long distance sea crossings!

Besides...Ye can see the World from on board a train, whereas all ye see in an aircraft is cloud after cloud after cloud...
Unless it's a Ryanair plane of course...In which case, ye see a notice saying "Please insert £5.00 to open window blind" for the whole of thy flight!

it's going to take Maglev to compete seriously even with medium haul air travel, and probably something more than todays maglev to really compete with long haul air travel.

If it hadn't been for an oversight that meant maintenance vehicles didn't register on the train management system - And the resulting catostrophic tragedy that happened on the Emsland test track a couple of years ago - The Transrapid would've been thrashing the crap out of short and long-haul flight times by now...

 

[TsLeng]

No need to run a train at 2000mph.

I am pretty sure if you have a train that runs at the same speed as a plane, that would be a winner already Make it a 600mph HST hehe.

I mean, same journey time but on a train? Oh yes, I'd take it.

 

[Kernowfem]

Id certainly use it!! There are thousands of people like me who detest flying, this would certainly open up most of the world to those who cant put themselves through a long haul flight.
With pressure on to change our environmental ways...would it not benefit the cause to cut down on flights somewhat? Not only that, look how much mileage you could clock up on a return journey to beijing!!

 

[Death]

No need to run a train at 2000mph. I am pretty sure if you have a train that runs at the same speed as a plane, that would be a winner already Make it a 600mph HST hehe.

Aye, that's true...But why stop at the point where the train is merely just as fast as the plane?

After all: I'd imagine that thy first journey on an APT or Pendo was probabally pretty exciting for ye - Given the higher sustained speeds that both trains can do around corners and over dodgy junctions - But if ye've never ridden a TGV or Shinkansen before, thy first run on either will probabally make thy first APT/Pendo working seem like a milk-float by comparison!

Hence why I'd be going for as fast as possible under the Laws of Physics...It'd give better working times, and possibly (For those who like modern traction, at least) a more enjoyable journey as well!

Id certainly use it!! There are thousands of people like me who detest flying, this would certainly open up most of the world to those who cant put themselves through a long haul flight.

Strangely enough, I don't detest flying at all...Indeed, I actually enjoy it! However, I still find the idea of 500mph at ground level to be far more exciting than 550mph at 32,000 feet!

That...And a train travelling at ground level would also have less physical distance to coiver than an aircraft on the same route, in theory. Because the train would be closer to the Earth's core than an aircraft, it'd be traversing a smaller circumfrance(sp) around the globe then the plane.

 

[LE Greys]

How fast can you actually go with a conventional wheel-on-rail (assuming you use adhesion traction and not linear motors)? Aircraft could probably travel at 2,000 mph on a regular basis, if you stuck the wings from an XB-70 onto an elongated 767 cabin with a Concorde nose. That would actually have the same seat/mile cost as a 777, but be three times faster. However, flying is probably going to go down the route of massive delta-winged superjumbos carrying 1,000 plus at the same speed as today, or slower!!! Ain't progress marvellous!:roll:

In the dream world of an Atlantic tunnel, we might be able to get to New York for £200 on an advance ticket, or £600 for an open return. The problem with the Atlantic Tunnel is probably self-evident, but could we go all the way around the other way? London-Brussels-Berlin-Warsaw-St Petersburg-Moscow-Trans-Siberia-Beijing?-Vladivostok-Baring Bridge-Anchorage-Vancouver-Chicago-New York How's that for the ultimate rail journey?

 

[bb21]

... According to Globefeed.com, the distance between Heathrow and Pudong is about 5,741 miles as the Crow flies, which would take about an hour at 6,000mph. If ye drop the target time down to three hours, the required speed drops by a third to 2,000mph...And I'm sure that a slightly hacked-up APT could manage that without breaking a sweat, given that (By my standards) 12Kmph is still slower than XHSR ought to be. ...

London to Shanghai is 12 hours direct though as the aircraft flies over Siberia. If the train can match that, it would be more comfortable than cattle class and certainly more attractive. There you go, I have managed to lower your target to a 'mere' 500mph. The top speed for the Shanghai Maglev is about 430kmph / 270mph. So the dream may not be so far away.

Well come to think about it, hell even if rail takes circa 24hours, it is certainly better than all the hassle of 'naked' security checks and having to negotiate miles of walkways at airports on top of waiting hours to board your flight. Eureka! 250mph and it is now within reach of today's technology.

 

[EWS 58038]

No need to run a train at 2000mph.

I am pretty sure if you have a train that runs at the same speed as a plane, that would be a winner already Make it a 600mph HST hehe.

I mean, same journey time but on a train? Oh yes, I'd take it.

Only possible with Maglev and NOT in the EU due to enviroment regulations. And it will be something like 980 km/h which will require a tremandous amount of energy. Which in this case will be a disaster for the fare paying passenger as the price will be about six times higher then the average airline fare.

 

[mickey]

India, Pakistan, Iran (If they co-operated) Syria and Turkey. Apart from Turkey these aree not £10 ones you get at borders.

Iran would have no problem if they were allowed to participate by Britain and the US (they've been active supporters of other transcontinental rail links and there's nothing to suggest this would be any different). The problem would be with the 'stans' (Pakistan excluded, of course), which is why they've suggested the route through India instead.

What would be most interesting, however, would be to see how the border crossings would operate... Would it stop for a few hours each time, or would there effectively be border staff for each country permanently stationed on the train to facilitate entry/exit while in transit (and presumably in no-one-move-knockdown-mode...)? Or perhaps they'd be able to bring about a Schengen-esque 'world travel zone'?

 

[MCR247]

Wouldn't you just check people had the right visas when the get on?

 

[mickey]

Wouldn't you just check people had the right visas when the get on?

Thus speaks a man who has never been to an 'interesting' country...

Many countries are very strict about stamping people in when they cross the border; some are equally strict about controls when leaving too, but it's not simply a matter of checking visas before getting on. If the train didn't stop in a country it would theoretically be possible to operate it 'sealed', but how likely is it that they would agree to its construction - and pay however much it cost - and not get any benefit for their own people? (Or to put it another way, how would you like to pay for a LGV to be built from Normandy to Norway without it stopping in at least Birmingham?) Knowing how cross-border rail politics work, it's also likely they'd want to use their own crew in their country's section too.

As a very real example, several trains on the Trans-Siberian railway cross through a small part of Kazakhstan, but all passengers must officially leave Russia, enter Kazakhstan, leave Kazakhstan again and re-enter Russia again, all within a matter of hours. To do that as a foreigner you need a transit or visit visa for Kazakhstan, as well as a double- or multi-entry visa for Russia. Luckily they now print 'transit via CIS' on tickets, otherwise no one would even know (though it's in cyrillic so most people still don't...), and it's not uncommon for tourists to be abruptly sent back from the border for not having the correct documents. Of course, those who know (and can speak the language...) ask for the less direct route that stays within Russia.
(Closer to home, the same thing used to happen with the night trains through Switzerland before CH joined Schengen last year, though at least then they did it while in motion so you weren't sat there for hours while they 'locked down' the train.)

 

[Kitz models man]

I think this would be amazing if they pull it off, n and im supporting it fully. Wack a fleet of HST's on it!! that would be interesting hahaha.

 

[A60K]

If it hadn't been for an oversight that meant maintenance vehicles didn't register on the train management system - And the resulting catostrophic tragedy that happened on the Emsland test track a couple of years ago - The Transrapid would've been thrashing the crap out of short and long-haul flight times by now...

It wouldn't - the technology has been around for years, it's simply not a practical or cost-effective system for the vast majority of transport corridors.

 

[2030720310]

I think this would be amazing if they pull it off, n and im supporting it fully. Wack a fleet of HST's on it!! that would be interesting hahaha.

Slightly impractical.....

 

[Fincra5]

The distance between Beijing, China from London, England, United Kingdom is 8161 kilometres or 5071 miles.

Thats one heck of a task to build. But i'm all for it!

 

[LE Greys]

The distance between Beijing, China from London, England, United Kingdom is 8161 kilometres or 5071 miles.

Thats one heck of a task to build. But i'm all for it!

That's the as-the-crow-flies distance. If you want to take in Moscow, Berlin, Paris and a few other places, not to mention diversions around difficult terrain, then it might add another 1,000 miles.

Still, the greater the challenge, the greater the achievement.