Hustle alarm

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Loop Line

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Having had the doors shut on me suddenly while aboard the 1922 to Liverpool at Kirkdale station, I was wondering if it is acceptable for the doors to be shut without the hustle alarm being sounded.
 
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sciisfun

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from what I've gathered, it doesn't sound when a passenger closes it? however I may be totaly wrong, so I'm sure that someone will correct me XD
 

Mag_seven

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Having had the doors shut on me suddenly while aboard the 1922 to Liverpool at Kirkdale station, I was wondering if it is acceptable for the doors to be shut without the hustle alarm being sounded.

How did we manage back in the day when we didn't have "hustle alarms"?
 

DasLunatic

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from what I've gathered, it doesn't sound when a passenger closes it? however I may be totaly wrong, so I'm sure that someone will correct me XD

On older stock which hasn't been refurbished to modern standards (Sprinters, Pacers etc) it doesn't, but on newer stock (Pendos, Desiros, Turbostars) it will.
 

najaB

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...I was wondering if it is acceptable for the doors to be shut without the hustle alarm being sounded.
It shouldn't happen, but there are certain conditions on some stock when it can. I'd report it to the TOC concerned Merseyrail so that they can investigate if its a fault or a 'feature'.
How did we manage back in the day when we didn't have "hustle alarms"?
Most of the stock didn't have power doors that can shut with considerable force.
 
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AM9

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Most of the stock didn't have power doors that can shut with considerable force.

The whole of the Underground before the 1992 stock, - the difference was that passengers knew that the doors would close when the guard blew up. They didn't then try to beat the doors.
On BR, my experience was the class 306 'Shenfield' units. Their doors' closure was preceded by the sound of compressed air released by an opening valve which last about 1 second.
 
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Railops

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With significantly more (totally avoidable) accidents, injuries and fatalities, I'll wager.

I think you'll find people manged quite well and were more aware in those days.
Everybody didn't walk around deaf to the world with their face stuck in a phone.
 

najaB

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Of course there was for a million reasons, but not particularly because of train doors.
The point is that hustle alarms are just one of many things that make life safer, but which are poo-pooed by the 'health and ****ing safety' brigade.
 

Via Bank

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I think you'll find people manged quite well and were more aware in those days.
Everybody didn't walk around deaf to the world with their face stuck in a phone.

So if people are more likely to be distracted and make mistakes, design the Railway so that it's less easy for them to make these mistakes (e.g. with hustle alarms), or so that if they do make a mistake, it's easy for them to rectify it before they get hurt/killed.

But of course - it's the nanny state! I imagine similar arguments are made about yellow lines on platforms, yellow front-ends and headlights on trains, handrails on staircases, and indeed train signalling. Surely?
 

Bletchleyite

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from what I've gathered, it doesn't sound when a passenger closes it? however I may be totaly wrong, so I'm sure that someone will correct me XD

It doesn't on some stock, but Merseyrail doors do not have a passenger close button.

Did the OP report it to the guard so it can be fixed?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It shouldn't happen, but there are certain conditions on some stock when it can. I'd report it to the TOC concerned Merseyrail so that they can investigate if its a fault or a 'feature'.
Most of the stock didn't have power doors that can shut with considerable force.

Merseyrail units don't really shut the doors with all that much force, like doors on LU it is easy to resist them closing. And you get a hissing sound before it.
 

najaB

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Merseyrail units don't really shut the doors with all that much force, like doors on LU it is easy to resist them closing. And you get a hissing sound before it.
Thanks. I don't use Merseyrail that often so wasn't sure if all their stock was the same. I was more commenting on the 'what did we do before hustle alarms, OMG it's health and safety gone mad' attitude in general, rather than the specifics of the OP's case.
 

Bletchleyite

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Thanks. I don't use Merseyrail that often so wasn't sure if all their stock was the same. I was more commenting on the 'what did we do before hustle alarms, OMG it's health and safety gone mad' attitude in general, rather than the specifics of the OP's case.

What hustle alarms did to Merseyrail (when coupled with staff not being able to bell the train off with the crew door open any more) was increase Ormskirk-Liverpool running times by 2 minutes. And I don't recall people often getting trapped before, if only because the loud hiss preceding door closure made the point adequately.
 

185143

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What hustle alarms did to Merseyrail (when coupled with staff not being able to bell the train off with the crew door open any more) was increase Ormskirk-Liverpool running times by 2 minutes. And I don't recall people often getting trapped before, if only because the loud hiss preceding door closure made the point adequately.
Is that a new thing about traincrew not being able to bell off with the local door open? Definately saw it a few months ago!

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headshot119

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What hustle alarms did to Merseyrail (when coupled with staff not being able to bell the train off with the crew door open any more) was increase Ormskirk-Liverpool running times by 2 minutes. And I don't recall people often getting trapped before, if only because the loud hiss preceding door closure made the point adequately.

Are you sure they can't bell with the door open ? I've seen it fairly recently; in the tunnel section as well.
 

satisnek

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The whole of the Underground before the 1992 stock, - the difference was that passengers knew that the doors would close when the guard blew up. They didn't then try to beat the doors.
On BR, my experience was the class 306 'Shenfield' units. Their doors' closure was preceded by the sound of compressed air released by an opening valve which last about 1 second.

My father, who grew up in west London, has more than once told me of a 'game' he and his mates played when they were lads... They would get off at each station during their Underground journey, stand right at the back of the platform and attempt to get back on as the doors were closing. The trick, he says, was to listen for the 'pshhh' from the door mechanism and run like hell! See, there were schoolboys who played up even in the 1940s!

Many years later, late 1970s to be precise, he got a new job which involved a degree of foreign travel. He would return with these tales of trains (I think he was mainly referring to the Paris Metro or RER services) where an alarm sounded when the doors were about to close. None of this "Mind the doors" rubbish. Suffice to say, they had hustle alarms over there long before they were introduced in the UK.

Incidentally, what was the first BR class to have hustle alarms? 150s? Or were they retrofitted?
 

Russonomics

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I'm unsure if this is a case of the engine noise drowning things out here, but I've been on platforms waiting for my own train while ATW 150's are making their stops and I haven't heard the hustle alarms when the doors are closing for a while now.
 

Bletchleyite

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Are you sure they can't bell with the door open ? I've seen it fairly recently; in the tunnel section as well.

They physically can but the procedures have changed so they are not allowed to any more, AIUI (and they can't if dispatching from a passenger door).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is that a new thing about traincrew not being able to bell off with the local door open? Definately saw it a few months ago!

Yes, I believe it was a recent change. And IMO a very negative one for dispatch safety.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Incidentally, what was the first BR class to have hustle alarms? 150s? Or were they retrofitted?

Retrofitted, surprisingly recently (mid 1990s). I would hazard a guess that the first fitted as built was class 158, or an EMU of similar vintage.
 
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coppercapped

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The new C2 stock on the Munich U-Bahn has LEDs embedded into the rubber strips on the edges of the doors. They light up when the doors are about to close.
Neat.
 

jamesst

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They physically can but the procedures have changed so they are not allowed to any more, AIUI (and they can't if dispatching from a passenger door).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Yes, I believe it was a recent change. And IMO a very negative one for dispatch safety.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Retrofitted, surprisingly recently (mid 1990s). I would hazard a guess that the first fitted as built was class 158, or an EMU of similar vintage.

Guards ARE allowed to dispatch a train with the local cab door not fully closed,however it must be in the process of closing when the bell is given. This is official as it comes under a local instruction.
Guards would never be able to dispatch a Merseyrail train from the coach with the local door open however as the driver couldn't obtain traction interlock
 

Johncleesefan

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Guards ARE allowed to dispatch a train with the local cab door not fully closed,however it must be in the process of closing when the bell is given. This is official as it comes under a local instruction.
Guards would never be able to dispatch a Merseyrail train from the coach with the local door open however as the driver couldn't obtain traction interlock

I can only talk for my toc but even the rule book states all doors closed before giving the ready to start signal. It would be a direct violation to go against that
 
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