Why does there appear to be two different stories about this? One is that the de-icing trains couldn't run because of "over-running engineering works", but now NR are saying that they all ran as normal but it just wasn't enough.
Yes and have done so, the incident I'm thinking of is maybe 5 years or longer back, where an 8car 377 hit a landslide just after the London portal of Merstham tunnel. Selhusrt sent out I think 8car 171 as the rescue train (1Z99), the incident did make it to a RAIB investigation.
I remember that incident! I didn't know about the 171 rescue though!
There was nothing 'main line' through Bromley South at around 7 this morning, though a broken down train at Sole Street can't have helped.
I remember not long alter the 377s started coming on stream in force, getting stuck on one between Lewes and Plumpton on as was in those days 2F01 Easbourne to Gatwick Airport. Not very pleasant, train losses power, lights off, air con off, regains power again, lights back on, air con on and blowing ice cold air and repeat. I was bloody frozen by the time I got to work.
I remember not long alter the 377s started coming on stream in force, getting stuck on one between Lewes and Plumpton on as was in those days 2F01 Easbourne to Gatwick Airport. Not very pleasant, train losses power, lights off, air con off, regains power again, lights back on, air con on and blowing ice cold air and repeat. I was bloody frozen by the time I got to work.
That's happened before hasn't it. As in such train haven't run.Part of the issue from what I can tell is that the air temperature was bouncing like a yoyo in certain areas last night, which would have had a knock-on effect to some degree on everything else, and I should imagine it was pretty much impossible to predict where ice would form. From one hour to the next there were differences of ±3C in the air, let alone the ground or dewpoint temperatures. I was on an overnight Southern mainline service in the early hours of this morning and the arcing was amazingly bad - I'd not seen anything like that except in exceptional snowfall conditions. Obviously Control/driver/signaller were made aware but it was pretty hard to say what to do as trains on the BML overnight weren't actually losing all that much time at all, so services were still running fairly punctually from station to station until the branches went wrong in the early morning.
Regarding the Southern/TL network, the information from Network Rail is correct - some lines partly had the atrocious build up of ice due to combinations of line blocks and possessions other than in accordance with the timetable planned for overnight services. There were also a couple of cancellations of treatment train paths which in hindsight may not have been a terribly good idea!
If I remember rightly, there is a hill just before Plumpton that causes chaos when the problem actually is slippery rails.
Was that on a Saturday?
No it was when the 1st one up went only as far as Gatwick, mainline shunt 4 to 5 at Gatwick before forming the 1st down one back again. Seams like ages since we used to do that now.
Do you know why the headcode was 2F01 as opposed to the current 1F01? The Saturday Eastbourne - Gatwick Airport runs as 1F01.
Timetable planners are a total mystery until themselves, what and why for is in the land of the gods lol. Not even us on the inside can get many things changed so they make better sense.
I can't argue with that!
It looks as if temperatures are set to drop again during the early hours of next week. Hopefully, they'll send a rail treatment train via Plumpton this time!
Why is it, I wonder, that so many people think the worst of TOCs in such circumstances? Life is considerably more difficult for everyone, not just the passengers. Ice, fog, gales and floods are seen as poor excuses for operational disruption that is in nobody's interest.
Ok, maybe the engineering trains did get a good run over it because of the above reasons. Surely, knowing that the temperature would drop last night, a couple of ECS 377s could've been sent to test the rails before the first passenger trains. The Lewes - Keymer Junction line is well known for causing disruption during icy conditions.
It actually draws less current, to stop voltage spikes. All onboard systems turn down abit, abit like an eco mode.
How can you run icebreakers when the lines are closed for overnight engineering work?
How many trains would you need to cover all lines once they were handed back?
Most lines are handed back shortly before the first train is due to run, what then?
What then?
If it hasn't been possible to run an overnight de-icing circuit, at least ensure the first train up a hill in icy conditions is longer than four vehicles.
And when that four coach train manages seven miles in two hours, follow your own ****in' Cut and Run policy and allow it to be assisted by the eight-car in rear, rather than insisting that it should keep running as it is "moving".
And... relax
You were right first time, ice mode on DC draws current down to a lower voltage limit (I=v/r, if r increases due to ice you need to lower the v at which you can draw I)
Principle is similar to old DC trains which would keep drawing current (I) down as the voltage of the 3rd rail dropped due to resistance caused by ice. Ultimately this would draw huge currents and burn through any ice, and also melt conductor rails in some cases
The first train to run through Plumpton (that wasn't an engineering train) was formed of 8 cars. After the problems it encountered on the line, it arrived (without assistance from another unit) at Haywards Heath 132 minutes late.
Perhaps 12 cars would've made the difference!
I was referring to the 2500 delay minutes accrued on Sole Street bank
Control often advise it's use between certain times, typically 7pm - 10 am, again regardless of current.
If I haven't selected ice mode it at the start of a journey south I tend to switch to it at Farringdon when changing the current, would it be better to select it at the first opportunity after being promoted?
Is the 'advice' from control posted in the late notice case? It is at our depot and therefore given the wording of the notice is fairly unambiguous I use it at instructed between the times specified regardless as to whether the tcms issues a prompt. I would rather use it and skip about a bit than have to account for a train failure when I failed to use it. I know a lot of drivers don't for the very reason they don't like how the train handles over points and section gaps, but I would say it depends on where your notice is posted and on the precise wording of that notice - i.e. is it advisory or is it an instruction?
Thanks, it's not in the late notice case, but I would still say it's an instruction. But hypothetically if mitrac advises it outside of the times instructed by control -which is when it becomes my decision - I'm just wondering if it has any real benefit when under the wires :/
There is, I've been on a 377 where the driver forgot to put it into ice mode, the VCB's on both units kept on tripping out. With that the acm's and mcm's started to trip out. Always check on controls window, and the TV above as it's normally on there.
Since you seem to be knowledgeable on the subject of ice mode are there any benefits to it when on AC? Mitrac will prompt the driver to "CONSIDER using ice mode" when the temperature drops to 2c or below, regardless of traction current. Control often advise it's use between certain times, typically 7pm - 10 am, again regardless of current.
If I haven't selected ice mode it at the start of a journey south I tend to switch to it at Farringdon when changing the current, would it be better to select it at the first opportunity after being promoted?