IEP criticism by Roger Ford

[edwin_m]

Oh dear, how dull does standard class look?

I prefer what we're getting over here on the GA.

As well as the lack of window alignment, the space between the facing seats looks pretty terrible there.

 

[cactustwirly]

I've said it multiple times, its the voyager all over again. Crap seats, to short. Had we ordered all of these with a minimum of 8 coaches with 6 given over to Standard then I should think the pack m in mentalitty might not have been so much of an issue.

I know they say none of the trains will run as a single 5 car unit other than on a portion worked quiet section but I dont believe them. It woant be long til a key PAD Bristol/Bristol/Cardif/Plymouth shows up with 5 coaches with about 3 in first and sardeen conditions in pleb class.

Like Yorkie I iether shant travel or travel differently. Love the railways as I do the chance for the bus and coach industry to shine and show what it can do will come in the next few years.

8 coaches over all of the routes is a bit overkill, Take the Swansea services, these are busy until Cardiff then carry mostly fresh air to Swansea. With the 5 car 800s the rear unit can be removed at Cardiff to have a better utilisation of stock.

 

[AlterEgo]

Roger Ford nailed it. It looks awful. Hate it immediately.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Roger Ford doesn’t like IEP? You could blow me down with a feather. Is he still banging on about how we should have bought Pendolinos instead even though Alstom withdrew from the bidding process?

 

[Greenback]

Comfort on long distance journeys is important to me. Like Yorkie, if I don't find the travelling environment a comfortable place, then I'm far more likely either to not travel at all, or to choose an alternative means of getting there.

For those who say it's good to pack in more seats at any cost, then I say why bother with seats at all? Or carriage roofs for that matter? Why not go back tot he days when we travelled in open wagons? I'm sure that would be very efficient in terms of getting people form A to B

 

[najaB]

Comfort on long distance journeys is important to me. Like Yorkie, if I don't find the travelling environment a comfortable place, then I'm far more likely either to not travel at all, or to choose an alternative means of getting there.

I agree. But I'll let my arse determine how comfortable the seats are, rather than my eyes.

 

[47802]

Roger Ford doesn’t like IEP? You could blow me down with a feather. Is he still banging on about how we should have bought Pendolinos instead even though Alstom withdrew from the bidding process?

Indeed seats and trim colour are somewhat irrelevant to the train, which can always be changed, you could have ended up with the same seats and trim colour whatever train the DFT had ordered, yes ultimately the seats are important to the customer as the things you sit on, but don't judge a train by the seats its irrelevant. My only comment so far about IEP without actually having travelled on one would be the sliding doors and Hitachi dislike of plug doors, giving a lack of window view in the seats next to the door pockets, would it really have been that difficult to stick a window in the door pockets after all Bombardier managed it with sliding door Electrostars.

 

[Greenback]

I agree. But I'll let my arse determine how comfortable the seats are, rather than my eyes.

So will I!

I make no comment on the IEP itself, as I haven't experienced it, I'm just commenting on things in general. I already avoid Voyagers because I find them uncomfortable. I'll give the IEP a try, certainly, but given where I live, if I don't like it then it will be difficult to avoid them for some journeys. So I might have to drive or (shudder) use a coach instead!

 

[Mikey C]

I don't like the Pendolino interiors, as they're cramped and claustrophobic

I still use Virgin trains though

 

[Greenback]

That's your choice. I would probably still use IEP's even if I do find them uncomfortable. The point is I'll probably use them less, and maybe a lot less, than if I didn't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So will I!

I make no comment on the IEP itself, as I haven't experienced it, I'm just commenting on things in general. I already avoid Voyagers because I find them uncomfortable. I'll give the IEP a try, certainly, but given where I live, if I don't like it then it will be difficult to avoid them for some journeys. So I might have to drive or (shudder) use a coach instead!

I think the chance of a coach being more comfortable is pretty low.

 

[Greenback]

It would have to be a very uncomfortable seat and train for me to choose a coach instead, yes

I wouldn't rule it out completely, though, the way things are going!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would have to be a very uncomfortable seat and train for me to choose a coach instead, yes

I wouldn't rule it out completely, though, the way things are going!

If it's that bad it would be interesting to see if anyone has a go with a very high quality i.e. 2+1 seated road coach, as they do in Spain. However, it doesn't look any worse than a Pendolino, and nobody has done that on the WCML.

 

[J-2739]

Ok, my first comment was kind of a half joke, but...

Give me a break, RF! Not everyone hates rock seats! I don't mind those board seats. I, for one, don't mind most seats in trains. In fact, I might slightly prefer ironing boards to fully padded seats, as I can stay in one comfortable position, while for the latter, I have to shuffle around to get into my desired position, and that really disturbs me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Roger Ford nailed it. It looks awful. Hate it immediately.

But does it look awful (and I agree it does) simply because there is no colour, that being solvable simply with a set of new seat covers?

This:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/first-look-inside-new-virgin-7584498
looks a lot better, doesn't it?

It's the same seats in the same layout - just a bit of colour added.

 

[Mikey C]

I think the chance of a coach being more comfortable is pretty low.

Exactly!

My understanding was that the legroom on these units was ok, it's just the seats themselves that look a bit uninviting?

 

[superkev]

Personally I can put up with hard seats if my knees aren't wedged to the seat infront or interlaced with someone's knees.
People are getting bigger but trains seem to get smaller.
K

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally I can put up with hard seats if my knees aren't wedged to the seat infront or interlaced with someone's knees.
People are getting bigger but trains seem to get smaller.
K

Do they? To use one example, the seat pitch in the newer Electrostars is better than that in the older ones.

 

[Verulamius]

Are these seats as good/bad as the class 700?

 

[hwl]

Do they? To use one example, the seat pitch in the newer Electrostars is better than that in the older ones.

Exactly and I prefer the extra leg room in the newer ones which also have an extra row of seat between the doors due to more airline seating, more seats more pitch all good in my view.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are these seats as good/bad as the class 700?

Vastly better (and wider). The Class 700 seats are 3+2 width seats in a 2+2 formation to allow for more standing space.

 

[sprinterguy]

Are these seats as good/bad as the class 700?

This was discussed almost exactly a year ago in the main "Class 800" thread, see this page (In fact, this whole thread appears to be little more than an opportunity to air previous jaded arguments):
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100841&page=123

In summary, the seats in standard class on the class 800 series trains are a similar design to those fitted in first on the class 700s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And are identical, barring double middle armrests and coverings, to those in First Class on the ScotRail 385.

 

[Greenback]

Seating and comfort is very subjective. It has to eb given the different shapes and sizes involved, let alone our different ideas of what is comfortable and what's not. Amazingly, I understand that there are some people who find Voyagers pleasant

All we can do, really, is to wait and see!

 

[swt_passenger]

This was discussed almost exactly a year ago in the main "Class 800" thread, see this page (In fact, this whole thread appears to be little more than an opportunity to air previous jaded arguments):
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100841&page=123

In summary, the seats in standard class on the class 800 series trains are a similar design to those fitted in first on the class 700s.

I was just wondering if this really needed a new thread as well.

I must reserve time to start another whole new thread about these seats when I ever get on an 800.

 

[ainsworth74]

I guess the east coast could have different seats. Unless DFT have forced virgin into the same ones.

Well the VT ones are going to have buffets so if the DfT were willing to cave on that then I'd have thought that seats would also have been up for discussion!

 

[physics34]

Seating and comfort is very subjective. It has to eb given the different shapes and sizes involved, let alone our different ideas of what is comfortable and what's not. Amazingly, I understand that there are some people who find Voyagers pleasant

All we can do, really, is to wait and see!

It us very subjective but i dont remember ANYONE complaining about the original IC125 mk3 seats that are sprung, well cushioned and comfortable for all.... except for the damn armrests lol

Train seats now seem to be harder than aeroplane seats.. you feel all rough bits of track and pointwork through your spine. Why sprung seats are no.longer used us beyond me.

Just hope these seats are better than Pendolino ones

 

[najaB]

It us very subjective but i dont remember ANYONE complaining about the original IC125 mk3 seats that are sprung, well cushioned and comfortable for all.... except for the damn armrests

If you mean the ones that are fitted to the EMT set on loan to VTEC, then I didn't find them that comfortable. Equal to the reupholstered Mallard seat for basic comfort, and the fixed arm rest takes them down in my personal experience. Obviously, others will have different and equally valid opinions.

 

[Mordac]

Seating and comfort is very subjective. It has to eb given the different shapes and sizes involved, let alone our different ideas of what is comfortable and what's not. Amazingly, I understand that there are some people who find Voyagers pleasant

All we can do, really, is to wait and see!

Do people's complaints about Voyagers have anything to do with their seats? I find their seats pretty pleasant, it's the noises, rattling and smells that are the problem.

 

[Greenback]

It us very subjective but i dont remember ANYONE complaining about the original IC125 mk3 seats that are sprung, well cushioned and comfortable for all.... except for the damn armrests lol

Train seats now seem to be harder than aeroplane seats.. you feel all rough bits of track and pointwork through your spine. Why sprung seats are no.longer used us beyond me.

Just hope these seats are better than Pendolino ones

I could be wrong, but I think that there is at least an element in new seat design that flows from research into good posture and preventing the onset of back problems by providing a firm and supportive seat.

Do people's complaints about Voyagers have anything to do with their seats? I find their seats pretty pleasant, it's the noises, rattling and smells that are the problem.

My complaints are very much focused on the comfort of the seats, but maybe it's fair to say that it's amplified by the rest of the stuff you mention.