I'm confused as to where all the trains fit at night...

[bramling]

ah a list was given with them again without rhymney

Are we talking about Rhymney platform or the adjacent sidings?

 

[Anonymous10]

Are we talking about Rhymney platform or the adjacent sidings?

sidings i believe are what is used

 

[bramling]

sidings i believe are what is used

On the list.

 

[Anonymous10]

On the list.

just noticed sorry

 

[JN114]

To address the two I work directly with:-

Heathrow Express
Paddington
Reading Depot
West Ealing EMU Sidings

Add Heathrow Terminal 5 (2 8 car sets, every Saturday night in long term plan)

Great Western Railway
Bristol Parkway
Bristol Temple Meads Motorail Plat 2
Cardiff Canton Depot
Exeter Depot
Exeter New Yard
Exeter St David’s
Fratton Depot
Gloucester Carriage Sidings
Hereford Down Siding
Laira Depot
Long Rock Depot
North Pole Depot
Oxford Up Carriage Sidings
Par Chapel Siding
Penzance
Reading Depot
Redhill Loco Sidings
St Philips Marsh Depot
Stoke Gifford Depot
Swansea
Swansea Maliphant Depot
Swindon
Swindon Cocklebury Sidings
West Ealing EMU Sidings
Westbury DMU Sidings
Weymouth
Worcester Back Road
Worcester Hereford Sidings

Add:-
Gatwick Airport Sidings
Redhill (Station)
Guildford (Station)
London Paddington
Slough Platform 1
Bourne End
Twyford Platform 5
Reading (Station)
Newbury Platform 3
Didcot Parkway

 

[Surreytraveller]

To address the two I work directly with:-



Add Heathrow Terminal 5 (2 8 car sets, every Saturday night in long term plan)



Add:-
Gatwick Airport Sidings
Redhill (Station)
Guildford (Station)
London Paddington
Slough Platform 1
Bourne End
Twyford Platform 5
Reading (Station)
Newbury Platform 3
Didcot Parkway

Redhill Station is two hours max, unless dispensation given. They do berth in the Loco Sidings, though

 

[JN114]

Redhill Station is two hours max, unless dispensation given. They do berth in the Loco Sidings, though

Except we berthed in Redhill station all night for over a year up until December, plenty of odd occasions before that if more than 3 sets needed in Loco; and while Loco Sidings is restricted to one unit only continue to do so when required by weekend engineering works - such as this weekend when there are 2 units at Redhill and one in the Sidings both Saturday and Sunday nights.

As I understood the 2 hour Max rule was rescinded when Platform 1 was turned into a bay; that was certainly my reading of it at the time. And I’ve never encountered any resistance from Sussex Control or Three Bridges ASC when I’ve needed to put an extra Turbo there for xyz in the 3 or so years in my current job...

 

[Surreytraveller]

Except we berthed in Redhill station all night for over a year up until December, plenty of odd occasions before that if more than 3 sets needed in Loco; and while Loco Sidings is restricted to one unit only continue to do so when required by weekend engineering works - such as this weekend when there are 2 units at Redhill and one in the Sidings both Saturday and Sunday nights.

As I understood the 2 hour Max rule was rescinded when Platform 1 was turned into a bay; that was certainly my reading of it at the time. And I’ve never encountered any resistance from Sussex Control or Three Bridges ASC when I’ve needed to put an extra Turbo there for xyz in the 3 or so years in my current job...

Bay Platform is less restrictive. Network Rail are more worried about the through platforms in case a loco needs to run round its train. I believe these two hour rules are only in place to prevent TOCs dumping stock as a matter of course, but giving a little leeway when its unavoidable

 

[Watershed]

Bay Platform is less restrictive. Network Rail are more worried about the through platforms in case a loco needs to run round its train. I believe these two hour rules are only in place to prevent TOCs dumping stock as a matter of course, but giving a little leeway when its unavoidable

Those kinds of "rules" often only exist (or, at least, are only enforced) in certain locations, depending on things like the attitude of local managers. There are certainly a number of instances of trains stabling overnight in through platforms across the country.

 

[Sunset route]

Redhill Station is two hours max, unless dispensation given. They do berth in the Loco Sidings, though

Except we berthed in Redhill station all night for over a year up until December, plenty of odd occasions before that if more than 3 sets needed in Loco; and while Loco Sidings is restricted to one unit only continue to do so when required by weekend engineering works - such as this weekend when there are 2 units at Redhill and one in the Sidings both Saturday and Sunday nights.

As I understood the 2 hour Max rule was rescinded when Platform 1 was turned into a bay; that was certainly my reading of it at the time. And I’ve never encountered any resistance from Sussex Control or Three Bridges ASC when I’ve needed to put an extra Turbo there for xyz in the 3 or so years in my current job...

You wouldn’t get any resistance from the the signallers about berthing in platform 1 at Redhill because we are allowed to as it’s now a bay platform and the local instructions were amended to take that into account when they modified the station layout.

 

[JN114]

I think we can agree that at a professional level yes, there are some nuances that anyone planning a train service or engineering work should account for.

But for the purposes of this thread; IE informing interested members on a largely enthusiasts’ forum about where stabling can and does routinely take place, the corrections I offered stand.

 

[bramling]

I think we can agree that at a professional level yes, there are some nuances that anyone planning a train service or engineering work should account for.

But for the purposes of this thread; IE informing interested members on a largely enthusiasts’ forum about where stabling can and does routinely take place, the corrections I offered stand.

Just to clarify, the list you gave is this places where trains are booked to stable in the long-term plan, or places where trains *can* stable? Having had time for a quick browse I see some of them are used on Saturday nights. Saturdays do seem to produce unusual arrangements across the board, for example I notice both GWR and XC stable in Canton on a Saturday night only.

On a different note, I’ve added Northern Ireland to the list - however I don’t have nearly as much info on their arrangements, and there’s nothing like RTTT to fill in the gaps. So I’ve had to do some informed guesswork. Is anyone able to check it, and if necessary correct?

 

[PHILIPE]

Just to clarify, the list you gave is this places where trains are booked to stable in the long-term plan, or places where trains *can* stable? Having had time for a quick browse I see some of them are used on Saturday nights. Saturdays do seem to produce unusual arrangements across the board, for example I notice both GWR and XC stable in Canton on a Saturday night only.

On a different note, I’ve added Northern Ireland to the list - however I don’t have nearly as much info on their arrangements, and there’s nothing like RTTT to fill in the gaps. So I’ve had to do some informed guesswork. Is anyone able to check it, and if necessary correct?

Saturday night stabling can be governed by Engineering Work Line closures trapping them in when Network Rail have carte blanche occupation.

 

[JN114]

Just to clarify, the list you gave is this places where trains are booked to stable in the long-term plan, or places where trains *can* stable? Having had time for a quick browse I see some of them are used on Saturday nights. Saturdays do seem to produce unusual arrangements across the board, for example I notice both GWR and XC stable in Canton on a Saturday night only.

Branch stations tend to be weeknights every other week, as on Western they alternate whether the mains close overnight or reliefs, resulting in either the Henley and Marlow, or Windsor branch inaccessible at start/end of service.
Gatwick/Guildford/Redhill are more engineering works based though so not long term plan.

Paddington, Reading, Didcot and Newbury are nightly, at least pre-COVID

 

[craigybagel]

TfW do stable overnight in P5 at Shrewsbury. It forms the first service to Cardiff.
For some reason RTT shows an ECS move being completed, but it doesn't and hasn't happened for a while now.

I'm somewhat confused by this - the first Cardiff service in the morning from Shrewsbury is a Crewe - Milford Haven service (which stables in Chester and works ECS to Crewe in the early hours). The 0610 service (normally to Maesteg but Cardiff only in the current Covid timetable) does start at Shrewsbury but certainly at least some of the time it comes from Abbey Foregate.

As for the rest of TfW, outside of Covid there is a 175 booked to spend Friday night in Crewe ETD (the DBC depot on the Chester line, as opposed to the Arriva Train Care facility next to the station where the other units stable). It's there for tyre turning but it is booked to spend all night there and not come off until the next day.

 

[Undiscovered]

I'm somewhat confused by this - the first Cardiff service in the morning from Shrewsbury is a Crewe - Milford Haven service (which stables in Chester and works ECS to Crewe in the early hours). The 0610 service (normally to Maesteg but Cardiff only in the current Covid timetable) does start at Shrewsbury but certainly at least some of the time it comes from Abbey Foregate.

It was stabling there when I posted and formed the first southbound service of the day- was told where to but have forgotten!
Stabled two car, two car came in on top and went out to BHM 0518 (this unit was from Abbey Foregate) stabled unit went south. Maybe that's the confusion?

Since the reduction, which was 21st? I don't think its been there as often. I can't say as I've been paying much attention at those early times of the day. Will have an ask around when I'm back in.

 

[PHILIPE]

I'm somewhat confused by this - the first Cardiff service in the morning from Shrewsbury is a Crewe - Milford Haven service (which stables in Chester and works ECS to Crewe in the early hours). The 0610 service (normally to Maesteg but Cardiff only in the current Covid timetable) does start at Shrewsbury but certainly at least some of the time it comes from Abbey Foregate.

As for the rest of TfW, outside of Covid there is a 175 booked to spend Friday night in Crewe ETD (the DBC depot on the Chester line, as opposed to the Arriva Train Care facility next to the station where the other units stable). It's there for tyre turning but it is booked to spend all night there and not come off until the next day.

The Maesteg change wasn't actually a COVID alteration but changed when the Maestegs went over to 170s. Thanks for the info about the Friday 175 move as I've always wondered what that was.

 

[craigybagel]

It was stabling there when I posted and formed the first southbound service of the day- was told where to but have forgotten!
Stabled two car, two car came in on top and went out to BHM 0518 (this unit was from Abbey Foregate) stabled unit went south. Maybe that's the confusion?

Since the reduction, which was 21st? I don't think its been there as often. I can't say as I've been paying much attention at those early times of the day. Will have an ask around when I'm back in.

Ah I see now - yes, RTT suggests that is indeed what still happens with the 0610 Cardiff. Pre Covid the 0610 went off 4 and normally came from the yard.

The Maesteg change wasn't actually a COVID alteration but changed when the Maestegs went over to 170s. Thanks for the info about the Friday 175 move as I've always wondered what that was.

Ooh yes, I forgot the Maesteg change was earlier then that. And you're welcome - I think it was about 2 or 3 years ago the 175s started being sent to the ETD for tyre turning instead of ATC.

 

[talltim]

Here’s some units stabled at Sheffield a few years ago. This was on a Northern strike day, so a little unusual, but basically the same arrangement as a night, but in daylight

 

[HamworthyGoods]

A couple to be added:

GWR - Weymouth Jubilee Siding (when it’s a normal timetable one set stables in the station and the other in the jubilee)

Northern Island Railways - Dublin Connolly (one of the International DD sets stables there every night)

 

[PHILIPE]

A couple to be added:

GWR - Weymouth Jubilee Siding (when it’s a normal timetable one set stables in the station and the other in the jubilee)

Northern Island Railways - Dublin Connolly (one of the International DD sets stables there every night)

And Weymouth Jersey Siding

 

[HamworthyGoods]

And Weymouth Jersey Siding

Nothing appears either SWR or GWR to stable in the Jersey overnight, just daytime. The Jubilee has a security compound which i think is why that is used

 

[PHILIPE]

Nothing appears either SWR or GWR to stable in the Jersey overnight, just daytime. The Jubilee has a security compound which i think is why that is used

I'm behind the times. GWR ones did at one time

 

[craigybagel]

Northern Island Railways - Dublin Connolly (one of the International DD sets stables there every night)

That ones debatable as to whether or not it counts as belonging to NIR. They own half of the carriages, with IÉ owning the other half. NIR own two of the 201 class locos, but they're pooled with all the other locos fitted to work across the border so are by no means dedicated.

Effectively it's a joint service using three sets of stock, two of which overnight in Belfast and one in Dublin.

 

[bramling]

That ones debatable as to whether or not it counts as belonging to NIR. They own half of the carriages, with IÉ owning the other half. NIR own two of the 201 class locos, but they're pooled with all the other locos fitted to work across the border so are by no means dedicated.

Effectively it's a joint service using three sets of stock, two of which overnight in Belfast and one in Dublin.

I’ve put it on the list. I hope the rest of the NIR list is acccurate, as I’ve had to make some assumptions due to lack of info.

 

[craigybagel]

I’ve put it on the list. I hope the rest of the NIR list is acccurate, as I’ve had to make some assumptions due to lack of info.

It's definitely not an easy one to define. You can bet it'll be an Irish Rail crew working it in to Connolly in the evening and back out in the morning, and statistically half the carriages in the rake should be owned by Irish Rail, and most of the time so will the loco.

But then if we're counting Eurostar sets at Landy and Forest I guess it's a similar situation!

Your NIR list covers all of the (surprisingly many) traincrew depots they have so it sounds be pretty close to accurate I would have thought.

 

[bramling]

It's definitely not an easy one to define. You can bet it'll be an Irish Rail crew working it in to Connolly in the evening and back out in the morning, and statistically half the carriages in the rake should be owned by Irish Rail, and most of the time so will the loco.

But then if we're counting Eurostar sets at Landy and Forest I guess it's a similar situation!

Your NIR list covers all of the (surprisingly many) traincrew depots they have so it sounds be pretty close to accurate I would have thought.

Yes that was my starting point, and then double checking with the timetable to check the locations to see services which land at the locations at the end of each day, which they appear to do. I’ve had to make the presumption that the ones ending at Londonderry, Larne and Bangor stable in the platforms.

 

[Horizon22]

Nothing appears either SWR or GWR to stable in the Jersey overnight, just daytime. The Jubilee has a security compound which i think is why that is used

I believe there are some Health & Safety concerns regarding the Jubilee now? Probably walking route related.

 

[bramling]

I believe there are some Health & Safety concerns regarding the Jubilee now? Probably walking route related.

By the looks of it there is something booked to stable in there from May onwards. Whether it happens in practice will of course be another matter!

 

[TB]

From what i know, Northern have 16 Class 333's and a few 331's in Yorkshire.

Some of these spend the night at Neville Hill, others at Skipton sidings but during normal timetables (at least) there are two units stabled overnight at Ilkley, usually the last one up from Leeds and last one from Bradford which then form the first departure to Leeds and first to Bradford the following morning.

Plus, when the 321's/322's were around, one of these units would only be diagrammed for peak usage, so would end it's morning duties with a Leeds to Bradford working (which IIRC, called only at Shipley) and would then spend the day occupying a platform at Forster Square until being needed for the afternoon rush. Don't know if this arrangement still applies.

Other places i can think of where units are stabled that aren't depots (or at least, have no maintenance facilities) would be Harrogate, Lancaster (i believe Northern stable the Morecambe branch unit there?), Huddersfield and, i think, Scarborough.