Incident at Enfield Town 12/10/21

[hwl]

Most likely either a crane while the rescue train pulls it out or just the recuse train pulling it out.

Both wrong, see post #104 (4 above yours)

"Secured with re-railing jacks, buffer stop was cut out of the front of the train then the jacks lowered train onto temporary track."

 

[choochoochoo]

That's not what they are for, although it is a useful side-effect.

Bloody useful. What are they for ?

 

[rebmcr]

Bloody useful. What are they for ?

Making sure the track circuits maintain electrical contact with the less-intensively-polished rails in terminal platforms.

 

[Llama]

Eutectic strips are usually only for the last chain or two at most before the block end, someone having a microsleep would have to be travelling pretty slowly to be able to come to & then react to that.

Locos would often sit at block ends dropping oil & grease, that would end up on the railhead & following wheeltreads would pick up a continuous band of this electrically insulating gunk causing wrong-side track circuit faults (section physically occupied by a train but no train detected by the signalling system). The zig-zag pattern stops contamination being picked up in a continuous band even if contamination is heavy, making it more likely for positive electrical contact to be made. Other methods of train detection were widely used too such as depression bars.

 

[dingdinger]

All very good, till a lorry hits a railway bridge. Then everyone on here is straight into blaming the lorry driver, they should be sacked on the spot and have their licence removed. Railways can do no wrong till proven, lorry drivers are always at fault.

How does a lorry hit a railway bridge? What is the cause? Not really comparable incidents but I understand what you're getting at

 

[mr_moo]

While not speculating on the cause of the accident I feel I should point out that WSP has little or nothing to do with a trains ability to stop in low adhesion conditions, once the brake demand exceeds the coefficient of friction between wheel and rail the train will only stop at a rate that the coefficient of friction* allows. WSP's purpose is to prevent the creep ratio (the difference between wheel rotational velocity and vehicle speed over ground) from exceeding a predetermined level at which tread damage occurs and allowing the brakes to remain applied.

I've had this very conversation, as I design sander systems for a living, with many people in the industry who should know better over the last few years. The steel of the wheel and rail don't know or care what WSP and brake control systems are trying to stop the train.


*typical clean dry wheel and rail has a coefficient of friction of 0.6, which allows braking of up to 60% of g. Normal timetabling relies on achieving brake step 2 which is 6% of g, requiring a coefficient of friction of 0.06. Railhead coefficient of friction <0.01 have been measured on UK infrastructure, meaning wheel slide occurs as soon as any brake demand is made which exceeds 1% of g which makes stopping difficult when brake step 1 is typically 3% of g.

Fascinating, useful, and appreciated. Thank you.

 

[the sniper]

Secured with re-railing jacks, buffer stop was cut out of the front of the train then the jacks lowered train onto temporary track.

Thanks, I wonder if it was filmed. Though I imagine it's not the kind of thing NR would put out as a PR piece for the industry! They should have invited Geoff Marshall.

I imagine lateral movement posed the most risk.

 

[theageofthetra]

I have to say this mirrors my thoughts exactly, and to my mind is a more a likely explanation than mechanical failure or adhesion issues (not that the possibility of either can be ruled out).

Re. the first paragraph, buffer stop collisions are rare, but not unknown. I’ve known a couple of drivers who’ve had them. Both were off track for an extended period, subjected to a battery of tests to identify “sleep apnoea” (not diagnosed in either case). Both also felt pressured to admit to “distraction due to packing bag” etc.

In short, there was a search for any explanation that didn’t involve the TOC having to accept they might have been shattered due to shifts, and simply fallen asleep.

Spot on.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

How badly damaged is the 710?

 

[Domk]

I have observed that platform 2 does not have any buffers. Just 2 sleepers fixed to the track and a temporary red stop light above it. Trains using platform 2 as normal. I imagine approach is at a much lower speed. I won’t find this out until next week Wednesday, it may have been fixed by then

 

[20atthemagnet]

How badly damaged is the 710?

Held up really well given the circumstances, was mostly cosmetic. Went to Ilford and wont be off for long.

I have observed that platform 2 does not have any buffers. Just 2 sleepers fixed to the track and a temporary red stop light above it. Trains using platform 2 as normal. I imagine approach is at a much lower speed. I won’t find this out until next week Wednesday, it may have been fixed by then

Approach is the same as any other terminal platform on the network.

 

[Class 170101]

Held up really well given the circumstances, was mostly cosmetic. Went to Ilford and wont be off for long.

Is it in the maintenance shed at Ilford or the Bombardier Shed? If in the maintenance shed surely it should be at Willesden rather than Ilford?

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

Is it in the maintenance shed at Ilford or the Bombardier Shed? If in the maintenance shed surely it should be at Willesden rather than Ilford?

Why? I'd wager it would go into the "A Shop" at Ilford

 

[Stigy]

All very good, till a lorry hits a railway bridge. Then everyone on here is straight into blaming the lorry driver, they should be sacked on the spot and have their licence removed. Railways can do no wrong till proven, lorry drivers are always at fault.

It’s usually quite clear-cut when a lorry hits a railway bridge. There’s very few technical failing that are likely to contribute, and is usually down to driver concentration.

 

[Deafdoggie]

It’s usually quite clear-cut when a lorry hits a railway bridge. There’s very few technical failing that are likely to contribute, and is usually down to driver concentration.

Exactly my point. There are lots of reasons it may not be the drivers fault.

 

[GB]

Exactly my point. There are lots of reasons it may not be the drivers fault.

In all the bridges bashes we have had over the last few years, how many have actually been down to either mechanical failure, medical issue or incorrect height information on the bridge?

A lot of the reason why road drivers get more stick is because they operate on a line of sight basis so should be a lot easier for them to not have that kind of incident (above reasons excepted).

 

[Mothball]

In all the bridges bashes we have had over the last few years, how many have actually been down to either mechanical failure, medical issue or incorrect height information on the bridge?

Of the 4 bridge strikes I've attended in the last 8 years, one was down to incorrect height signs on the bridge and one was incorrect inside the bus. The other two down to driver error.
Cant speak for the wider area but from my experience of 50/50, I certainly don't presume the driver is at fault straight away.

 

[philthetube]

Official procedure being trial by RailForum?

 

[BJames]

Is some work being done on P2 at the moment? I noticed on RTT that P1 and P3 have been used consistently since Friday and that P2 has not been used at all... and a very unusual move timed for tonight? Reversing between P2 and P1 after arrival - see https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:F23269/2021-10-19/detailed and

Realtime Trains - 5U96 0049 Enfield Town Signal L5531 to Enfield Town

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Given it's not quite the time yet it's possible this won't take place but I was just wondering what this was all about...

 

[PG]

Given it's not quite the time yet it's possible this won't take place

Looks like it did indeed run, according to RTT.

 

[357]

Is some work being done on P2 at the moment? I noticed on RTT that P1 and P3 have been used consistently since Friday and that P2 has not been used at all... and a very unusual move timed for tonight? Reversing between P2 and P1 after arrival - see https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:F23269/2021-10-19/detailed and

Realtime Trains - 5U96 0049 Enfield Town Signal L5531 to Enfield Town

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Given it's not quite the time yet it's possible this won't take place but I was just wondering what this was all about...

Went from P3 to P1 in the end.

 

[87015]

and a very unusual move timed for tonight? Reversing between P2 and P1 after arrival - see https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:F23269/2021-10-19/detailed and

Realtime Trains - 5U96 0049 Enfield Town Signal L5531 to Enfield Town

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Given it's not quite the time yet it's possible this won't take place but I was just wondering what this was all about...

Reaction to engineering work on Chingford line, just forming an 8-car up for the morning.

 

[Mcq]

I see that today services are running in and out of P3 at Enfield Town with P1 and P2 blocked.
Does anyone know for a fact why this was not possible for the rest of the day of the incident?

 

[Surreytraveller]

I see that today services are running in and out of P3 at Enfield Town with P1 and P2 blocked.
Does anyone know for a fact why this was not possible for the rest of the day of the incident?

Traction current isolated? The station was probably in a block to allow for investigation and recovery work

 

[Railcar]

I see that today services are running in and out of P3 at Enfield Town with P1 and P2 blocked.
Does anyone know for a fact why this was not possible for the rest of the day of the incident?

I was there the day after the incident. Men with shovels were working on the surface of P3, so it would have been unsafe for passengers. Just unfortunate the the work (which must have started before the incident) overlapped.

 

[Mcq]

Thanks Railcar - so P3 was out of service on the day of the incident - that makes more sense.

 

[GB]

P3 had a failed train occupying it on the day.

 

[Mcq]

The picture is getting much clearer - thank you GB.
So had that not been the case - then the branch might have been able to remain open with a service in/out of P3?
Presumably P1 is too close/integrated with P2 to have been used?

 

[Domk]

P2 was used the next day after the incident, in fact the first in service train arrived into P2. The following day trains were using P1 mainly with P3 as the peak extra platform. On weekends the Monday morning 8 car train stabilises in P1 (as normal) so the only platform that is spare is P3.

P2 currently doesn’t have any buffers.

 

[Mcq]

Thank you Donk.
So back to my original question - what was it that meant the whole branch needed to be closed all day - not even an evening service with Bush Hill Park impacted as well?