Instructor looking for train driving position

[red2005]

can anyone help me with this question? i have been a pcv instructor in london for 10 years and fancied getting the train drivers licence to add to list i have. is there a shorter training course i can go on because as an instructor with years of experience i will not require as much instruction that new drivers require and i cant survive on a trainee wage for a 12 months.

many thanks paul.

to answer your question as quick as i can i have a counter question for you mate!

I'm a qualified train driver but would dickie branson give me a short cut to piloting a 747 just because i have a bit of safety experience?

I've driven both HGV'S and trains now and it's like chalk and cheese i can assure you!

 

[RobBWFC78]

I am an ADI, (Approved Driving Instructor) qualified to teach learner drivers in exchange for financial reward. I am also a qualified train driver. I can say unequivocally, that there is absolutely nothing in common between the two professions. At all.

I came onto the railway as a guard, I had to learn everything from scratch. I started the driver course with a base of rules and traction knowledge but I still had to complete the course. There are no shortcuts.

/thread

 

[theironroad]

I'm pretty sure the op is not a troll and it's a legitimate question, but not how the railway works. There are plenty of people who've done their 22 odd years in the forces, some have been instructing for years, others with degrees, others with vast experience in other careers.

Basic rail training does that, bring everyone together to start the job at a common level.

And the worst thing for a trainee driver is to think the job is a piece of p*** that a monkey could do, as some recent trainees think. While every driver is always learning, some drivers who've come to the job with the attitude that they are better than others, have been the ones who have been involved with more incidents than drivers who've been around a while.

 

[Nic nic]

I am currently in the recruitment process and the enormous challenge which faces me before I even get a wiff of a contract clearly shows the demanding role of a driver. The training involved is (if I get it) going to be the biggest challenge of my life. I firmly believe if you underestimate the role and the training needed you will be noticed and whittled out in an instant and rightly so...

 

[RJ]

Clearly a troll perhaps from another private members forum who are actively looking to troll this forum. ..

There is something rather uncouth about it isn't there? 50 odd pages of sneering and vitriol about this site. You'd think that people purporting to be railway staff would have better things to do after getting home, than making posts on here with the sole intention of trolling and getting banned.

 

[455driver]

Clearly a troll perhaps from another private members forum who are actively looking to troll this forum. ..

Have they finally got tired of talking about the good old days when Saltley signed everywhere and saved the world!

 

[TDK]

After reading the question from the op I am still trying to work out why he actually wants a licence to drive a train? If he wants to drive a train pay for a day out on a preserved railway, if he wants to be a train driver then apply for a job as one!

 

[ComUtoR]

...If he wants to drive a train pay for a day out on a preserved railway...

Can you do that ?

 

[DriverToBe]

Can you do that ?

Its about £400 at GCR

 

[RJ]

You can even pay for bus driving experiences nowadays!

 

[devinier]

I remember doing my HGV training, 1 week course, test on the following Monday morning.....

 

[jimmyvonk]

£425 on the NNR - I found it much more fun to just volunteer and get it free as part of the job.

http://www.nnrailway.co.uk/page.php?pid=12

 

[FordFocus]

Genuine question, leave the poor man alone.

Slagging him and other superior forums off.

 

[red2005]

just not the career where the " it's another string to the bow" approach works!

 

[Scott M]

How hard is it to actually be a train driver in terms of intelligence? Does it basically just take university-level academic ability?

And would a person with a degree be at an advantage when applying?

 

[HSTfan!!!]

How hard is it to actually be a train driver in terms of intelligence? Does it basically just take university-level academic ability?

And would a person with a degree be at an advantage when applying?

Highest education I have is 2 A levels and I'm a driver, don't think education past the basics has any bearing on getting he job, more about whether you can pass the psychometric tests and hack the intensity of the training.

 

[devinier]

How hard is it to actually be a train driver in terms of intelligence? Does it basically just take university-level academic ability?

And would a person with a degree be at an advantage when applying?

Skill is succesfully walking a tightrope across the Grand Canyon without a safety harness, Intelligence is not trying.
To be a train driver you need a good memory, attention to detail, ability to perform what can be a very monotonous task perfectly all of the time whilst constantly monitoring for potential risks. A university degree is not required, I don't have one but I would imagine someone who has obtained a degree may well have the required attributes.

 

[MichaelAMW]

Skill is succesfully walking a tightrope across the Grand Canyon without a safety harness, Intelligence is not trying.
To be a train driver you need a good memory, attention to detail, ability to perform what can be a very monotonous task perfectly all of the time whilst constantly monitoring for potential risks. A university degree is not required, I don't have one but I would imagine someone who has obtained a degree may well have the required attributes.

As I've mentioned previously, although it was not entirely accepted in this forum as being true, there has been some research that shows educational achievement is a good predictor for suitability for driving. However, this finding was incidental to research into the new psychometric tests, so it wasn't a primary focus of the research, and on the negative side it turns out that those with better qualifications are not as good regarding time keeping or attendance.

 

[Timpg]

They say they look for candidates whom are mechanically minded...well I'm a time served marine engineer/fitter with 13 years of experience, now a shunter!haven't made driver yet....:cry:

 

[red2005]

Academic grades will always lie a distant second to that of common sense in terms of safety critical roles

 

[MichaelAMW]

Academic grades will always lie a distant second to that of common sense in terms of safety critical roles

What makes you sure of that? I have no idea whether you're right - all I have is the research I mentioned above - but how do you know the balance between academic/educational ability and common sense (in all its manifestations, I guess) is quite as uneven as you say?

It's not helpful if someone says, "Well I left school with my O-levels and now I'm a good driver" as that is just a personal example that can't define the general situation. Similarly, if most drivers happen not to have particularly high-level qualifications that doesn't mean that they don't help - it just means they're not common among drivers. Obviously, qualifications on their own can't determine suitability but then again neither can common sense on its own.

(I know I've gone on about this point before. I don't have an axe to grind - indeed, it's personally irrelevant - but I'm certainly interested in the answer; I haven't yet seen any comments that seem to be addressing this objectively, however.)

 

[Scott M]

I feel the days of getting to be a train driver based on it being passed down in families / working your way up in the railway industry with little academic qualifications are going to be ending soon.

Train driving is one of the few jobs out there that provide relative job security and a high wage. That inevitably attracts young people with top grades from good universities. There is just as high a chance they will have as much common sense when comes to safety as the common man - if not a higher chance.

And a young, clearly intelligent applicant will be irresistible to most TOCs, I would imagine.

If you're looking for proof - look at Dentistry in the UK. It used to be a family thing, or something you didn't need that high grades to get into, however now that people have cottoned on that it's a secure job with a high wage, you need the top grades in the country to even have a sniff at getting in.

 

[EazyGuy]

delete

 

[red2005]

What makes you sure of that? I have no idea whether you're right - all I have is the research I mentioned above - but how do you know the balance between academic/educational ability and common sense (in all its manifestations, I guess) is quite as uneven as you say?

It's not helpful if someone says, "Well I left school with my O-levels and now I'm a good driver" as that is just a personal example that can't define the general situation. Similarly, if most drivers happen not to have particularly high-level qualifications that doesn't mean that they don't help - it just means they're not common among drivers. Obviously, qualifications on their own can't determine suitability but then again neither can common sense on its own.

(I know I've gone on about this point before. I don't have an axe to grind - indeed, it's personally irrelevant - but I'm certainly interested in the answer; I haven't yet seen any comments that seem to be addressing this objectively, however.)

i never said it was JUST common sense that would get you a job! but it's no good having all the grades under the sun if you are a complete tool for example!...and i know this because my driver trainer AND manager have told me!....grades are obviously looked at as it gives employers an idea as to whether someone would be comfortable writing reports for example! however i think it's fair to say personal statements and reasons for wanting the job blah blah blah on the application form are also more important than the academical section!

one of the drivers on the course before me and myself have had this discussion before and he told me he has relatively average grades etc yet he still beat qualified pilots to get the job! trust me it's more about an individuals ability to do the job in a safe manner than how many letters or numbers they have after their name!

 

[EazyGuy]

i never said it was JUST common sense that would get you a job! but it's no good having all the grades under the sun if you are a complete tool for example!...and i know this because my driver trainer AND manager have told me!....grades are obviously looked at as it gives employers an idea as to whether someone would be comfortable writing reports for example! however i think it's fair to say personal statements and reasons for wanting the job blah blah blah on the application form are also more important than the academical section!

one of the drivers on the course before me and myself have had this discussion before and he told me he has relatively average grades etc yet he still beat qualified pilots to get the job! trust me it's more about an individuals ability to do the job in a safe manner than how many letters or numbers they have after their name!

I see where you are coming from but that last point of yours is disproving your own argument if anything. Pilots have the grades and the "common" sense, and any commercial pilot out there will will be able to the job in a safe manner given the level of safety critical training they have gone through already, the only reason the bloke you spoke to got chosen ahead of them is luck (I don't mean that in harsh way, I think we can all agree there is a large degree of luck in the process). If a commercial pilot can get through the initial paper sift, he or she will most likely breeze through the rest of the process, not only because of their background, but also because they have gone through assessments with identical formats (with more difficult content) to get into airlines.

 

[MichaelAMW]

i never said it was JUST common sense that would get you a job! but it's no good having all the grades under the sun if you are a complete tool for example!...and i know this because my driver trainer AND manager have told me!....grades are obviously looked at as it gives employers an idea as to whether someone would be comfortable writing reports for example! however i think it's fair to say personal statements and reasons for wanting the job blah blah blah on the application form are also more important than the academical section!

Of course! I completely appreciate and, to the extent that I can, agree that it's not *just* common sense, but I was really asking why you thought common sense was vastly more critical than education. In fact, it's such a complex and unique set of skills and abilities that are required that I imagine it can't really be reduced to a simple this-or-that comparison.

one of the drivers on the course before me and myself have had this discussion before and he told me he has relatively average grades etc yet he still beat qualified pilots to get the job! trust me it's more about an individuals ability to do the job in a safe manner than how many letters or numbers they have after their name!

I suppose I was asking for the basis of your "trust me", although I don't mean that to be dismissive of your experience. More to the point, I guess I was asking whether "an individual's ability to do the job in a safe manner" is actually supported by the number of letters or numbers after their name, e.g. two people who are apparently largely the same in what they offer; is the one with the engineering degree actually a better bet?

 

[notadriver]

My opinion on this is that if there are two candidates to choose from who've reached the required test standard and one is a pilot, I don't think the pilot should automatically be chosen. Moreover the opposite - they should be made to prove why they want the job when they are obviously over qualified for it.

 

[MichaelAMW]

My opinion on this is that if there are two candidates to choose from who've reached the required test standard and one is a pilot, I don't think the pilot should automatically be chosen. Moreover the opposite - they should be made to prove why they want the job when they are obviously over qualified for it.

I'd agree with the first part but not the second. *Anyone* needs to prove they want the job but not against an assumption about excessive qualification. There's no reason why anyone must do whatever they're qualified for, particularly given that (currently) there are no educational requirements for driving, above a general level.

 

[notadriver]

It's not their ability I'm questioning more their dedication. Let's assume that the non-pilot's previous job was a security guard. Their quality of life and income will increase considerably by becoming a driver. I believe such a candidate is more likely to give the job their 'all' and won't get bored as the pilot who will have taken a considerable pay cut to do a job that's less technically demanding when they've been cruising the skies at 500 mph. In fact they may even look do go back flying rather than stay within the industry. Let's also not forget most trainee driver jobs will be slow repetitive suburban all stations and not bombing down the main line at 125 mph.

 

[EazyGuy]

Speaking from experience here...The aviation industry has changed massively in the last 10-15 years.

Their quality of life and income will increase considerably by becoming a driver.

As it will for a pilot.

the pilot who will have taken a considerable pay cut...

Nope, pay increase for most. (fully qualified that is)

In fact they may even look do go back flying rather than stay within the industry.

Anybody who leaves voluntarily, will never ever go back with things the way they are.

All that aside, it must be remembered that this is a game, whoever jumps through the hoops best will get the job.

One guy may "want" it more, but if he does not hit those key words in the interview, and if he's not as good at getting his point across as the next guy, he will miss out, no matter if he wants it twice as bad as the other guy. That's just the way it is, I wouldn't buy into this "wanting it more" business, play the game, jump the hoops, tick the boxes, that's how you get the job. Some bad eggs always slip through, but it works for the most part.