Instructor looking for train driving position

[devinier]

notadriver, I think you'll find a large number of Pilots (commercial) will be working for considerably less than what train drivers earn. Certainly those who would be looking to leave aviation for a new career. Except for the lucky few ex forces or those who have been successful at major airlines, most pilots will also have paid for their own training.
The real world for a lot of pilots is long hours and employment terms which most train drivers - and I am a train driver - would refuse to get out of bed for.

 

[ungreat]

All I can add to this is..please read "Becoming a train driver" thread at the top of the page!
I'm now entering my 28th year on the footplate.Still enjoy it,even now!

 

[notadriver]

Deleted.

 

[plastictaffy]

Judging by the fact that some at my depot can barely tie their own shoelaces, I'd suggest it's not that hard. However, at the other end of the spectrum, we have a driver with a PhD in Physics.

The degree thing is a bit of a thorny issue at the moment. My TOC tried to introduce it as a pre-requisite for people that wanted to apply. The local branch of both ASLE&F and the RMT went steaming in to change their minds, and it has now, allegedly been quashed. However I should imagine the company will just implement it anyway with external applicants.

 

[notadriver]

notadriver, I think you'll find a large number of Pilots (commercial) will be working for considerably less than what train drivers earn. Certainly those who would be looking to leave aviation for a new career. Except for the lucky few ex forces or those who have been successful at major airlines, most pilots will also have paid for their own training.
The real world for a lot of pilots is long hours and employment terms which most train drivers - and I am a train driver - would refuse to get out of bed for.

There's a website quoting the average pilot salary as being 90k. How true this is I don't know but this is the example I was basing my initial premise upon.


Have you been a driver long ? I'm a driver too - a PCV driver.

 

[plastictaffy]

notadriver, I think you'll find a large number of Pilots (commercial) will be working for considerably less than what train drivers earn.

Damn straight. I applied to be a trainee pilot with BA some years ago - they were taking them off the street in an almost unheard of move for an airline, and the pay as a trainee was around 21k, with those newly qualified going out as a second officer on around 40k. Drivers at my place are on a shade less than 50, with April 2016's payrise to take them above 50k.

 

[notadriver]

That's the same as drivers get now. Only drivers in the best tocs get 50K plus. Pilots can go on to earn double. So when someone says a commercial pilot I assume they mean someone at the top of their game on 90k.

 

[EazyGuy]

Damn straight. I applied to be a trainee pilot with BA some years ago - they were taking them off the street in an almost unheard of move for an airline, and the pay as a trainee was around 21k, with those newly qualified going out as a second officer on around 40k. Drivers at my place are on a shade less than 50, with April 2016's payrise to take them above 50k.

And that was the good old days when at least BA paid for the training...They still take cadets off the street, but now you have to front circa 100k for the training via a loan, which you get back via an increased salary, but you're still looking at years until you reach over 50k, and then you are still paying back the loan let's not forget...

Oh and that's BA, the best deal in town...The rest of them, you front the 100k again, but they don't help you pay it back, atrocious T&C's, treated like dirt, starting salary 30k, immense stress, ridiculous hours leading to fatigue and depression, and generally under-appreciated for doing what is a responsible and difficult job.

The rail industry is like a paradise compared.

The average pilot salary that some websites quote is heavily skewed by 60 year old captains earning in the 100-200k region, sure it's great if you reach there, very very few do, and you'll have to go through everything I described above to get there. Those captains never had go through it when they started out, back when the industry truly was a golden place to be, even starting out as a cadet.

 

[plastictaffy]

That's the same as drivers get now. Only drivers in the best tocs get 50K plus.

If they've sold all their conditions.......

Seriously though, it's only freight guys that don't push 50k flat a year. Virgin are on about 56, with committed sundays as part of the deal - mugs!! XC are rumoured to be on 62, but they've sold pretty much everything to the company. Our guys push 50 now, with some regularly clearing 60-65 for the year. LO are around 48, TTBOMK.

 

[ComUtoR]

Cheers guys.

 

[Minilad]

If they've sold all their conditions.......

Seriously though, it's only freight guys that don't push 50k flat a year. Virgin are on about 56, with committed sundays as part of the deal - mugs!! XC are rumoured to be on 62, but they've sold pretty much everything to the company. Our guys push 50 now, with some regularly clearing 60-65 for the year. LO are around 48, TTBOMK.

And a rumour is exactly what that is

 

[455driver]

If they've sold all their conditions.......

Seriously though, it's only freight guys that don't push 50k flat a year. Virgin are on about 56, with committed sundays as part of the deal - mugs!! XC are rumoured to be on 62, but they've sold pretty much everything to the company. Our guys push 50 now, with some regularly clearing 60-65 for the year. LO are around 48, TTBOMK.

Yes they are if they live at work!
XC are on about £53k basic once they have been productive for 3 (I think) years, you can write their conditions on the back of a postage stamp and still have enough room for a picture though!

 

[red2005]

I see where you are coming from but that last point of yours is disproving your own argument if anything. Pilots have the grades and the "common" sense, and any commercial pilot out there will will be able to the job in a safe manner given the level of safety critical training they have gone through already, the only reason the bloke you spoke to got chosen ahead of them is luck (I don't mean that in harsh way, I think we can all agree there is a large degree of luck in the process). If a commercial pilot can get through the initial paper sift, he or she will most likely breeze through the rest of the process, not only because of their background, but also because they have gone through assessments with identical formats (with more difficult content) to get into airlines.

Firstly that's absolute garbage that it was just pure luck!! The lad worked his backside off did his research and obviously did a better job of his application process! Sorry to dent your argument a little bit more mate but the pilot didn't even get through the paper sift! You make your own luck in this world!

Why will they just breeze the rest of the assessments?? Just because they may have a degree in English or maths?? Well I don't know whether you are a train driver yourself but I am and I've been through the testing that's currently in place and let me tell you ANYONE can fail this assessment process!
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I see where you are coming from but that last point of yours is disproving your own argument if anything. Pilots have the grades and the "common" sense, and any commercial pilot out there will will be able to the job in a safe manner given the level of safety critical training they have gone through already, the only reason the bloke you spoke to got chosen ahead of them is luck (I don't mean that in harsh way, I think we can all agree there is a large degree of luck in the process). If a commercial pilot can get through the initial paper sift, he or she will most likely breeze through the rest of the process, not only because of their background, but also because they have gone through assessments with identical formats (with more difficult content) to get into airlines.

Who are you to say what's more difficult!?? What's easy for one person is tricky for the next!
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Of course! I completely appreciate and, to the extent that I can, agree that it's not *just* common sense, but I was really asking why you thought common sense was vastly more critical than education. In fact, it's such a complex and unique set of skills and abilities that are required that I imagine it can't really be reduced to a simple this-or-that comparison.

I suppose I was asking for the basis of your "trust me", although I don't mean that to be dismissive of your experience. More to the point, I guess I was asking whether "an individual's ability to do the job in a safe manner" is actually supported by the number of letters or numbers after their name, e.g. two people who are apparently largely the same in what they offer; is the one with the engineering degree actually a better bet?

Valid points you make there mate but I will say please tell me you are not a train driver already?? ......... academic grades will give some kind of idea of how comfortable an individual will be with the training course etc etc etc..... common sense gives a clear indication as to whether an individual will put his/her train/passengers at risk and whether they will follow rules and regulations to the letter or drive the train by the seat of their pants and take unnecessary risks every two minutes!

I take it you are aware of how safety critical the railway industry is?? Although I kinda hope you don't know given you had to ask that lol

 

[EazyGuy]

Firstly that's absolute garbage that it was just pure luck!! The lad worked his backside off did his research and obviously did a better job of his application process! Sorry to dent your argument a little bit more mate but the pilot didn't even get through the paper sift! You make your own luck in this world!

Actually that was the point I was making, the paper sift is pretty much luck, one application can get chosen over one equally as good for any number of reasons.

Why will they just breeze the rest of the assessments?? Just because they may have a degree in English or maths?? Well I don't know whether you are a train driver yourself but I am and I've been through the testing that's currently in place and let me tell you ANYONE can fail this assessment process!

No, just because they'd have jumped the hoops before, that's all, I'd find it unlikely once they're through the sift they'd fall at another hurdle, in fact all I know (and there's quite a few) have not.

Who are you to say what's more difficult!?? What's easy for one person is tricky for the next!

Relax! Both assessments are pretty much the same, main difference being airline assessments involve some basic maths and physics, hence it's a pretty fair to say that's more difficult no?

 

[Minilad]

Yes they are if they live at work!
XC are on about £53k basic once they have been productive for 3 (I think) years, you can write their conditions on the back of a postage stamp and still have enough room for a picture though!

Wrong again. Oh well

 

[red2005]

Actually that was the point I was making, the paper sift is pretty much luck, one application can get chosen over one equally as good for any number of reasons.



No, just because they'd have jumped the hoops before, that's all, I'd find it unlikely once they're through the sift they'd fall at another hurdle, in fact all I know (and there's quite a few) have not.




Relax! Both assessments are pretty much the same, main difference being airline assessments involve some basic maths and physics, hence it's a pretty fair to say that's more difficult no?

What reasons!? Distance from depot you've applied to? Spelling or grammar? Lack of detail in a personal statement? Reasons for wanting the job not what they're looking for? Not enough working experience? Criminal record? Age? Health?........none of that is luck it's hard work or circumstance! And if one candidate has that over the other then it's obviously not "equally as good" and I for one don't have the academic qualifications that most pilots have and I got the job through hard work and starting at the bottom so I'm offended you think it's just blind luck anyone with less qualifications has this job.

Since when has experience of " jumping through hoops" been relevant as to whether you pass or not? The new tests are designed in a way where unfortunately you've either got it or not regardless of how many A levels you have and revision does very little to help you so what good experience of jumping through hoops gives you I've no idea! Conductors and other safety critical staff have been jumping through hoops within the same industry for years and still fail these assessments.

Not necessarily no......what good is being a mathematical or scientific whizz if you have no common sense, communication skills or can't multi task or keep concentration for long periods!? Which is what a lot of the tests are based on! Like I said what some people find easy others struggle with and vice versa.