Keolis/Amey to take over Wales and Borders

[krus_aragon]

I seriously doubt that the whole thing is constrained by the path ATW currently have into/out of BHM INTL.

I meant that in reference to your earlier suggestion (that the clash of times south of Chester on Liverpool and Birmingham services would require a recast) that such a recast may already be in the pipeline. I'm thinking that the Lime Street - Halton - Chester paths are pretty fixed, but that the Birmingham-Shrewsbury paths are (or will be) open for rearranging.

 

[nedchester]

I seriously doubt that the whole thing is constrained by the path ATW currently have into/out of BHM INTL.

It is.

Remember that Wolverhampton to Birmingham Int is a very busy piece of railway, WMR are going to run 2 tph from Birmingham to Shrewsbury and so ATW has to fit into all that. basically it means a Shrewsbury to Chester (from Birmingham) at around xx:25 and an arrival from Chester from Birmingham at around xx:30 as now. Of course what you do at Chester is another matter.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I meant that in reference to your earlier suggestion (that the clash of times south of Chester on Liverpool and Birmingham services would require a recast) that such a recast may already be in the pipeline. I'm thinking that the Lime Street - Halton - Chester paths are pretty fixed, but that the Birmingham-Shrewsbury paths are (or will be) open for rearranging.

Wales and Borders are locked in to the paths they have between Wolverhampton & BHM INTL unless they can sit in New St for lengthy periods (which defeats the point of going direct to INTL and will require additional units).

Nowhere have I seen in black and white that the current Holyhead to BHM INTL will continue.

 

[OrangeJuice]

Wales and Borders are locked in to the paths they have between Wolverhampton & BHM INTL unless they can sit in New St for lengthy periods (which defeats the point of going direct to INTL and will require additional units).

Nowhere have I seen in black and white that the current Holyhead to BHM INTL will continue.

The cambrian main line will be going hourly so could take the Birmingham paths. But on the north Wales coast wasn't it going to be Liverpool to Llandudno, Manchester to Bangor, and Cardiff/Birmingham? to Holyhead as the 3tph

 

[Gareth Marston]

Theirs some stuff here people may find interesting from the recent Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Line Liaison Comitee meeting with Welsh Government.

As always with the Committee there seems to be some blurring between there minutes being a factual representation and a recording of aspirations so beware.

http://shrewsburyaberystwythrailway.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/WGMEETING-MINUTES-AUGUST2018.pdf

 

[pt_mad]

Please forgive me if I'm asking or repeating something from earlier up, but its such a long thread.

I read something in Rail Magazine July Edition about the new Welsh Franchise involving electrification of the Welsh Valleys? I couldn't fathom exactly what it was pointing to, as it was in the opening info but nothing in depth about it. Are these the lines out of Cardiff? As AFAIK Swansea into the Valleys isn't going to happen now??

Will Transport for Wales be responsible for this rather than Network Rail?

 

[The Ham]

Certainly no extra paths: the DfT have laid down the law on that. 1tph Chester to Lime Street, and 1tph (plus the peak extras) Chester to Manchester.

I wouldn't be sure that the DfT saying something is anything to go by with regards to extra paths (see SWR and how they don't have the power to run the extra services in the ITT as the DfT didn't talk to NR let alone the funding to solve the problem)

 

[sw1ller]

That's the one for the local stopper starting in December.
No guidance on any new services.
New paths out of Lime St will be constrained, even after the upgrade.
Then there's the limitations of the single track Halton Curve, and capacity Frodsham-Chester after Northern start their Leeds service.
That's before you reach Chester...

Hahahaha. This forum does throw up some funny stuff. It’s why I keep coming back.

 

[daikilo]

Please forgive me if I'm asking or repeating something from earlier up, but its such a long thread.

I read something in Rail Magazine July Edition about the new Welsh Franchise involving electrification of the Welsh Valleys? I couldn't fathom exactly what it was pointing to, as it was in the opening info but nothing in depth about it. Are these the lines out of Cardiff? As AFAIK Swansea into the Valleys isn't going to happen now??

Will Transport for Wales be responsible for this rather than Network Rail?

You may learn more by reading the later pages of the "South Wales metro" thread in "infrastructure and stations". The TfW plan is to have the Cardiff valleys electrified with train-trams operating those through Pontypridd and tri-modes on the Rymney. There is much more to it, and probably even more that has yet to appear.

 

[pt_mad]

You may learn more by reading the later pages of the "South Wales metro" thread in "infrastructure and stations". The TfW plan is to have the Cardiff valleys electrified with train-trams operating those through Pontypridd and tri-modes on the Rymney. There is much more to it, and probably even more that has yet to appear.

So nothing for the valleys from Swansea then or electrification Cardiff to Swansea?

 

[krus_aragon]

I wouldn't be sure that the DfT saying something is anything to go by with regards to extra paths (see SWR and how they don't have the power to run the extra services in the ITT as the DfT didn't talk to NR let alone the funding to solve the problem)

I assume this set of limits was one of the many (stubbornly argued) issues that had to be resolved before responsibility for letting the franchise was devolved to the Welsh Government.

 

[Cardiff123]

So nothing for the valleys from Swansea then or electrification Cardiff to Swansea?

Electrification to Swansea as part of GW electrificiation was cancelled last July by the DfT and Grayling.
There are no Valley lines out of Swansea to electrify.
The only lines being electrified with discontinuous wires are Treherbert, Aberdare, Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney. This is being done by Keolis Amey and not Network Rail. Welsh Govt will take ownership of the Valley lines out of Cardiff Queen Street in September 2019.

Trains will operate on diesel everywhere else in Wales where Network Rail keeps the infrastructure and is not electrifying anything thanks to the DfT.

 

[Rhydgaled]

So nothing for the valleys from Swansea then or electrification Cardiff to Swansea?

The Swansea 'ValleyLines' (or so I sometimes call them), do not currently have any passenger services. As things stand, they will NOT be getting even a diesel passenger service in the new franchise. For clarity, by Swansea 'ValleyLines' I mean the following routes:

• Swansea - Resolven - GlynNeath,
• Swansea - Crynant - Onllwyn
• Swansea - Llandarcy - Clydach - Pontardawe - Ystradgynlais
• Swansea - Gowerton - Gorseinon - Hendy Junc. - Glanaman - Gwaun-Cae-Gurwen

The last two have significant portions of track missing as well as having no passenger services; electrification is a long ways off I think (although, if the 'train testing facility' comes off it might make sense).

Swansea electrification is a victim of funding for rail infrustructure being 'non-devolved'. The Welsh Government are allowed to invest in rail infrustructure if they want, but there is no money for it in the block grant so technically investing in Welsh rail infrustructure is the UK government's responsiblity. That said, while I think cancellation of MML electrification is an unmittigated disaster, I think the (hopefully temporary) cancellation of electrification to Swansea may have a silver lining. If it had been wired, the masts may have stood in the way of increasing capacity between Cardiff and Bridgend, which is sorely needed including the ability for fast trains to overtake stopping passenger services.

Trains will operate on diesel everywhere else in Wales where Network Rail keeps the infrastructure and is not electrifying anything thanks to the DfT.

Except Cardiff to the Severn Tunnel; that's the only Network Rail bit that will be getting wires in the currently-planned future.

 

[SeanM1997]

Has anyone got any news what is happening on the Crewe-Shrewsbury line? Everything is very quiet, which is concerning

 

[Cardiff123]

Has anyone got any news what is happening on the Crewe-Shrewsbury line? Everything is very quiet, which is concerning

I imagine everything will stay quiet now until the official launch on Sunday 14th or Monday 15th October.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Has anyone got any news what is happening on the Crewe-Shrewsbury line? Everything is very quiet, which is concerning

That's one line that we know little about as it did not appear in the list of wonderful new things that appeared. So the working assumption will be that the current two hourly local will continue- whether this is interlinked with HOW (giving Class 170's) or standalone (presumably with CAF's) or even interlinked with Cambrian we don't know. The Manchester to Cardiff trains will continue to be hourly and run by CAF's and eventually with 1st class sections.

 

[daikilo]

Has anyone got any news what is happening on the Crewe-Shrewsbury line? Everything is very quiet, which is concerning

From what I have heard and read, nothing significant for several years, and even then ...

 

[sw1ller]

Well I’ve heard from quite a few that west midland trains are taking over the stopper with an improved timetable. This should be happening within a year. There’s been quite a recruitment drive at Shrewsbury.

Don’t quote me on it though. Haha

 

[Gareth Marston]

The Swansea 'ValleyLines' (or so I sometimes call them), do not currently have any passenger services. As things stand, they will NOT be getting even a diesel passenger service in the new franchise. For clarity, by Swansea 'ValleyLines' I mean the following routes:

• Swansea - Resolven - GlynNeath,
• Swansea - Crynant - Onllwyn
• Swansea - Llandarcy - Clydach - Pontardawe - Ystradgynlais
• Swansea - Gowerton - Gorseinon - Hendy Junc. - Glanaman - Gwaun-Cae-Gurwen

The last two have significant portions of track missing as well as having no passenger services; electrification is a long ways off I think (although, if the 'train testing facility' comes off it might make sense).

Swansea electrification is a victim of funding for rail infrustructure being 'non-devolved'. The Welsh Government are allowed to invest in rail infrustructure if they want, but there is no money for it in the block grant so technically investing in Welsh rail infrustructure is the UK government's responsiblity. That said, while I think cancellation of MML electrification is an unmittigated disaster, I think the (hopefully temporary) cancellation of electrification to Swansea may have a silver lining. If it had been wired, the masts may have stood in the way of increasing capacity between Cardiff and Bridgend, which is sorely needed including the ability for fast trains to overtake stopping passenger services.

Except Cardiff to the Severn Tunnel; that's the only Network Rail bit that will be getting wires in the currently-planned future.

Spent Bank Holiday in the Mumbles/Gower/ Swansea. Huge contrast in wealth between waterfront/western suburbs of Swansea/Gower and rest of City. Confirmed my views on what an over reliant on the motor vehicle deprived area it is. The "great car economy" has not helped the likes of Swansea. Unless something is done its competitiveness will not change.

 

[Kite159]

In my eyes there is merit in having West Midland Trains taking over the Crewe - Shrewsbury locals, as extensions to the current New Street - Shrewsbury services. Have hourly calls at Wem, Whichurch & Nantwich with the current 2 hourly calls at the rural request stops (increasing to hourly during peak time), keep the Welsh services calls at Whitchurch & Nantwich for some services.

 

[PHILIPE]

Well I’ve heard from quite a few that west midland trains are taking over the stopper with an improved timetable. This should be happening within a year. There’s been quite a recruitment drive at Shrewsbury.

Don’t quote me on it though. Haha

The recruitment would be to a doubling of WM services between Birmingham and Shrewsbury. Would hardly change mid-franchise

 

[Gareth Marston]

The recruitment would be to a doubling of WM services between Birmingham and Shrewsbury. Would hardly change mid-franchise

And taking over Sunday services on all stops Salop to Wolves from ATW , however Daft have hit the panic button after May tt debacle and postponed the increase in off Peak trains between Salop and Brum die this December.

 

[Parallel]

The recruitment would be to a doubling of WM services between Birmingham and Shrewsbury. Would hardly change mid-franchise

Is it likely to have any through trains from Shrewsbury to Rugeley Trent Valley? There is currently an early morning one only, but thinking it would stop trains sitting around at New St and also would give Walsall more direct services to elsewhere in the West Mids.

Sorry for going off topic, just want to know what will be supplementing the ATW services.

 

[tomuk]

• More trains between Birmingham and Shrewsbury with two services per hour from December 2018*
• A new Sunday service between Birmingham and Shrewsbury from December 2018*, and a second train per hour introduced in May 2021

*The December timetable has been delayed.
In summary the service from Shrewsbury will be
1tph Fast 'Wales' service to Birmingham International
1tph All Stations 'West Mids' Birmingham New Street
1tph Semi Fast 'West Mids' Birmingham New Street (Wellington, Telford, Shifnal, Codsall, Wolverhampton)
There is also a suggestion that one of the 'West Mids' trains will run via Wiillenhall and they could also be extended to Kings Norton as part of the West Mids Mayor's plans.

 

[craigybagel]

In my eyes there is merit in having West Midland Trains taking over the Crewe - Shrewsbury locals, as extensions to the current New Street - Shrewsbury services. Have hourly calls at Wem, Whichurch & Nantwich with the current 2 hourly calls at the rural request stops (increasing to hourly during peak time), keep the Welsh services calls at Whitchurch & Nantwich for some services.

And the merit would be?

Well I’ve heard from quite a few that west midland trains are taking over the stopper with an improved timetable. This should be happening within a year. There’s been quite a recruitment drive at Shrewsbury.

Don’t quote me on it though. Haha

The recruitment drive seems to be on the back burner now, with the postponement of the timetable changes that were due to come in in December. I personally know of 7 qualified drivers who are supposed to be moving either to Crewe or Shrewsbury LNWR/WMT depots, but only 2 have actually moved with the rest still waiting on dates.

Fwiw I've heard the same rumours doing the rounds. As I've pointed out many times there are virtually no benefits in transferring the route (in fact, aside from the extra costs involved you could also argue it would be a worse experience for customers for reasons I've gone in to before with regards to alternatives during disruption) - and it's also worrying on a personal level as my dept is responsible for a fair bit of work on that route which we'd rather not lose. Until we hear anything concrete though I won't be hitting the panic button.

Putting my enthusiast hat back on and not speaking as someone who works on the route concerned, I suspect that it's simply been forgotten about in the announcements and that through running from the HOWL will continue. If it was up to me, I'd seperate it out from the HOWL again, use the 230 that's meant to be going on Chester - Crewe on Shrewsbury - Crewe instead and use a 170 that would be freed up on Chester - Crewe.

But it remains to be seen what they'll actually come up with.....

 

[krus_aragon]

• More trains between Birmingham and Shrewsbury with two services per hour from December 2018*
• A new Sunday service between Birmingham and Shrewsbury from December 2018*, and a second train per hour introduced in May 2021

*The December timetable has been delayed.
In summary the service from Shrewsbury will be
1tph Fast 'Wales' service to Birmingham International
1tph All Stations 'West Mids' Birmingham New Street
1tph Semi Fast 'West Mids' Birmingham New Street (Wellington, Telford, Shifnal, Codsall, Wolverhampton)
There is also a suggestion that one of the 'West Mids' trains will run via Wiillenhall and they could also be extended to Kings Norton as part of the West Mids Mayor's plans.

Will the W&B "fast train" drop any existing station calls (currently Telford, Wellington, Wolverhampton and Smethwick)?

 

[Dai Corner]

Transport for Wales appoints Director with a railway background
https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/wales/two-new-directors-appointed-at-transport-for-wales

Transport for Wales has appointed two new directors as it prepares to take over the management of the Wales and Borders rail service from mid-October.

Heather Clash joins Transport for Wales as executive director of finance while Alexia Course joins as rail services director.

Clash, who joins from Capita Group where she was finance director of the ITS Division, said: "I’m delighted to be joining Transport for Wales’ board at such a pivotal time.

"These are exciting times for transport in Wales and Transport for Wales has an ambitious strategy to Keep Wales Moving. I’m eager to use my skills and experience to help shape the company’s strategic direction."

Course joins from Network Rail where she was programme director for route change responsible for the Wales Route.

She added: "Transport for Wales is transforming public transport in Wales and my focus will be to lead the development of a rail service that opens up opportunities for the people, communities and businesses of Wales. I look forward to working closely with our stakeholders to deliver safe, reliable services which meet the needs of our passengers."

James Price, chief executive at Transport for Wales, said: "Alexia and Heather are both experienced and capable and I’m delighted to welcome them both to the senior team. I’m also pleased to see Heather join the board.

"Transport for Wales is leading the delivery of unprecedented levels of investment in rail services in Wales, including our exciting plans for the Wales and Borders rail service and South Wales Metro. Alexia and Heather each bring valuable experience and a commitment to high standards that will help us to deliver effectively for our customers and achieve our vision to Keep Wales Moving.”

Nick Gregg, interim chair, Transport for Wales, said: "As Transport for Wales moves into a new phase, these appointments further demonstrate our position as an expert delivery organisation. Alexia and Heather bring experience and skills that will complement and enhance our senior team as we Keep Wales Moving.

"I look forward to working with Alexia and Heather, and I am delighted to welcome Heather to the board."

 

[Gareth Marston]

Transport for Wales appoints Director with a railway background
https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/wales/two-new-directors-appointed-at-transport-for-wales

Imagine at the next TfW board meeting you did a group exercise - draw a picture of train and then a flow diagram of how you do a journey from Aber to Aberystwyth.......

 

[Gareth Marston]

Will the W&B "fast train" drop any existing station calls (currently Telford, Wellington, Wolverhampton and Smethwick)?

Yes no change in stopping pattern, Wellington, Telford, Wolverhampton, Smethwick Galton Bridge, Birmingham New St & Birmingham International.

 

[Gareth Marston]

And the merit would be?



The recruitment drive seems to be on the back burner now, with the postponement of the timetable changes that were due to come in in December. I personally know of 7 qualified drivers who are supposed to be moving either to Crewe or Shrewsbury LNWR/WMT depots, but only 2 have actually moved with the rest still waiting on dates.

Fwiw I've heard the same rumours doing the rounds. As I've pointed out many times there are virtually no benefits in transferring the route (in fact, aside from the extra costs involved you could also argue it would be a worse experience for customers for reasons I've gone in to before with regards to alternatives during disruption) - and it's also worrying on a personal level as my dept is responsible for a fair bit of work on that route which we'd rather not lose. Until we hear anything concrete though I won't be hitting the panic button.

Putting my enthusiast hat back on and not speaking as someone who works on the route concerned, I suspect that it's simply been forgotten about in the announcements and that through running from the HOWL will continue. If it was up to me, I'd seperate it out from the HOWL again, use the 230 that's meant to be going on Chester - Crewe on Shrewsbury - Crewe instead and use a 170 that would be freed up on Chester - Crewe.

But it remains to be seen what they'll actually come up with.....

Well whatever it is Craig you'll be working it!