Keolis Amey Wales - Future Rolling Stock

[Gareth Marston]

I fear the travelling public in Wales will become very impatient very quickly.
Not least when trains are shorter next year than they are now due to the 150/2s going away for PRM mods with no trains to cover for them!

Never mind, if everything is branded as 'Transport for Wales' or 'Wales and Borders', at least for Keolis Amey public anger will be directed at TfW / Welsh Govt and not directly at them.

There's already been an incident with a Shropshire passenger angrily pointing to the Welsh Government logo on a short formed 158 service. Well they wanted to be in control...........

 

[Gareth Marston]

The 150s and 158s have started PRM Mods. According to signals received from Tweets to ATW people seem to be expecting improvements from Day 1 of the new franchise

And people coming in Booking Offices wanting to know what improvements will happen in October.........

 

[Cardiff123]

The 150s and 158s have started PRM Mods. According to signals received from Tweets to ATW people seem to be expecting improvements from Day 1 of the new franchise

The 158s are being given priority at the moment though. There are 36 x 150/2s to get through, so far not one fully modified 150 is back in service and there's 17 months to go. The number of 150s being taken out of service for mods will have to be stepped up from the autumn. And we all know what autumn is like for ATW without trains being out of service for PRM mods.

Edit: So 36 x 150/2s in 17 months, 2 - 3 x 150/2s need to be fully modified every month between August 2018 - December 2019 to have any hope of meeting the deadline.
And what about the 153s? There's no mention of those being withdrawn before 2023.

 

[playboy81]

Will the new franchise holder be applying the red/black livery to all existing rolling stock?

 

[krus_aragon]

Will the new franchise holder be applying the red/black livery to all existing rolling stock?

Probably not: the pacers and MKIII coaches are very unlikely to be reliveried, given they're expected to leave a year into the new franchise. The rest of the existing stock will be around for three to five years, so some will need repainting as a matter of course in that timeframe. I'd guess there'll be more (perhaps all) 175s done than 158s, as the 158s have all been repainted and refurbished recently. The 150s, will be the last of the existing stock to leave, so there's greater odds of them being repainted.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Probably not: the pacers and MKIII coaches are very unlikely to be reliveried, given they're expected to leave a year into the new franchise. The rest of the existing stock will be around for three to five years, so some will need repainting as a matter of course in that timeframe. I'd guess there'll be more (perhaps all) 175s done than 158s, as the 158s have all been repainted and refurbished recently. The 150s, will be the last of the existing stock to leave, so there's greater odds of them being repainted.

Much will depend on how much the Welsh Government/Transport for Wales will want to be associated with the ongoing problems that the franchise will have in terms of rolling stock shortages exacerbated by the PRM mods.....especially when outraged commuters in the Valleys realise that in practical terms Arriva leaving on October 14th will make absolutely no difference to anything in the short term.

They may not want their name plastered over everything till 01/01/20.

 

[Cardiff123]

Much will depend on how much the Welsh Government/Transport for Wales will want to be associated with the ongoing problems that the franchise will have in terms of rolling stock shortages exacerbated by the PRM mods.....especially when outraged commuters in the Valleys realise that in practical terms Arriva leaving on October 14th will make absolutely no difference to anything in the short term.

They may not want their name plastered over everything till 01/01/20.

I should imagine we'll see a white 'T' at either end of 150s where the ATW branding was.
Changing interiors just for the sake of it is madness though, when ATW have just replaced all 150/2 seat covers and have just finished an interior refresh program.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Much will depend on how much the Welsh Government/Transport for Wales will want to be associated with the ongoing problems that the franchise will have in terms of rolling stock shortages exacerbated by the PRM mods.....especially when outraged commuters in the Valleys realise that in practical terms Arriva leaving on October 14th will make absolutely no difference to anything in the short term.

They may not want their name plastered over everything till 01/01/20.

I guess they could do a TfL rail type thing and have a temporary brand name until the new trains / improved services kick in?

 

[Cardiff123]

I guess they could do a TfL rail type thing and have a temporary brand name until the new trains / improved services kick in?

What's the TfL rail temporary brand name, and what will be the permanent branding?

 

[Domh245]

What's the TfL rail temporary brand name, and what will be the permanent branding?

It is temporarily TfL rail before it becomes Crossrail Elizabeth Line when it runs through the core section

 

[JetStream]

I've seen a few trains, 150/153s mainly with the Arriva logo already removed. This would probably back up Krus' point about certain trains remaining green.

 

[Cardiff123]

I've seen a few trains, 150/153s mainly with the Arriva logo already removed. This would probably back up Krus' point about certain trains remaining green.

How though? Arriva branding will be removed from all trains, inside and out, by October.

The big Q is whether we'll see a train in a TfW livery and branding on launch day.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

How though? Arriva branding will be removed from all trains, inside and out, by October.

The big Q is whether we'll see a train in a TfW livery and branding on launch day.

Maybe on launch day, you will only see just one train in the new TfW livery for publicity to herald the start of franchise for the papers and politicians basking in the media glory as this happened with SWR and West Midlands Trains.

Some new TOCs - SWR & WMT - are quite slow with rebranding, even Arriva Northern seem to be quicker than them!

Hopefully TfW will be just as quick that the Welsh Government would be keen to make their first awarded franchise appear successful. It might look embarrassing for them if there are many trains still running, with the old ATW colours with tiny TfW logos slapped on, in few years time!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Maybe on launch day, you will only see just one train in the new TfW livery for publicity to herald the start of franchise for the papers and politicians basking in the media glory as this happened with SWR and West Midlands Trains.

Some new TOCs - SWR & WMT - are quite slow with rebranding, even Arriva Northern seem to be quicker than them!

Hopefully TfW will be just as quick that the Welsh Government would be keen to make their first awarded franchise appear successful. It might look embarrassing for them if there are many trains still running, with the old ATW colours with tiny TfW logos slapped on, in few years time!

When there's nothing to see apart from minor re branding after the first few months is when the crap hits the fan.

 

[PaulHarding150]

When there's nothing to see apart from minor re branding after the first few months is when the crap hits the fan.

Nothing screams new franchise like a freshly liveried 150.

 

[Cardiff123]

I think we can be sure that the Pacers won't be touched. My money is on the 175s being re-liveried and having the interiors refreshed first as the 175s are the units in most need of a refresh inside and out.

Anyone know why the 175s are the only class not to get the most recent ATW livery? (Excluding the 142s)

 

[krus_aragon]

I think we can be sure that the Pacers won't be touched. My money is on the 175s being re-liveried and having the interiors refreshed first as the 175s are the units in most need of a refresh inside and out.

Anyone know why the 175s are the only class not to get the most recent ATW livery? (Excluding the 142s)

Probably because they'd all been reliveried into Arriva's (older) colour scheme shortly before the new one was devised. If the paint job's still good, etc...

Also, there might be some institutional reluctance to play around with the 175's livery again after they took a while to decide what to replace the First North Western colours with. (A white and turquoise "ghostly" livery was trialled on a few units before the current livery was applied.)

 

[allaction]

In the meantime, great strides have been made in significantly improving the infrastructure at Tenby station.

Proving that environmental concerns lead the way, a waterbutt has been installed, and Naughty Steps added to each token kiosk for bad drivers to sit on and consider the consequences of their actions.

 

[Pete_uk]

That's the benefit for the privatised railway!

Anyway, what will do the Cheltenham runs? The flirts?

 

[Charlie M.]

That's the benefit for the privatised railway!

Anyway, what will do the Cheltenham runs? The flirts?

Came here to ask the exact same question
Apparently it is going to be 1tph so.

 

[ATW158Xpress]

Cheltenham services are part of South Wales Metro network under the fleet plans. In the latest Modern Railways edition it mentions that Flirt DEMU for main line local services from Cardiff Central.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The tri mode Flirts will do Vale of Glamorgan to Coryton/ Rhymney Valley. The diesel only ones will do Swanline, Maesteg/ Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham.

 

[317 forever]

Many Welsh organisations used to meet in Shrewsbury which, although over the border, is central and with good travel links.

With Shrewsbury part of the Welsh rail franchise and most trains from there serving Wales, it does feel as though it is in Wales.

 

[317 forever]

Will the new franchise holder be applying the red/black livery to all existing rolling stock?

I'm surprised the trains won't be white, red and green to match the colours of the Welsh flag.

 

[Cardiff123]

I'm surprised the trains won't be white, red and green to match the colours of the Welsh flag.

Like this you mean?



Not the best photo of 143605 but you get the idea of what IMO the best Valley lines livery was like.

 

[Pete_uk]

I always liked the red and green 150s. I guess they are going for a corporate look

 

[pemma]

I'm surprised the trains won't be white, red and green to match the colours of the Welsh flag.

Don't forget it's Wales and Borders and the franchise includes some services which don't even enter Wales, so having a 'Welsh flag' livery might not be good from a PR prospective.

 

[Philip]

Is the whole 175 fleet staying until 2022 or is it more likely they will be phased out gradually from around 2020 as the new trains are phased in over a couple of years?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Don't forget it's Wales and Borders and the franchise includes some services which don't even enter Wales, so having a 'Welsh flag' livery might not be good from a PR prospective.

see post #541

 

[Gareth Marston]

Is the whole 175 fleet staying until 2022 or is it more likely they will be phased out gradually from around 2020 as the new trains are phased in over a couple of years?

Its 2022 for delivery of the CAF's