Landslip at Hatfield Colliery (near Doncaster) line to Hull/Scunthorpe now reopened.

[Trog]

That's what I'm thinking. You're going to have to go back to the beginning and start again surely. Could any of our infrastructure experts comment?

Will have to be cut right back to formation level at least, and probably deeper to make sure the underlying ground is solid and uniform. As you would not want to relay the track over a random mixture of different materials and compaction levels, as differential settlement would give problems for decades.

Then blind it all off with rock waste and or a nice sand blanket with some strong gridded geotextile to help spread the loads all laid in falls to new drainage and topped off with a layer of clean ballast and track to taste.

 

[IanD]

Certainly this must end up being one of the longest line closures other than when that line was in the far reaches of Scotland.

There was a derailment near Ely in 2007 that led to the line from Ely to Kennet being closed for 6 months.

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/RAIB_Ely2007.pdf

Didn't look as bad as this landslip though.

 

[IanXC]

I've read that TPE are operating a limited service between Scunthorpe and Cleethorpes, and of course there is the Northern 153 up there doing Barton. Is Cleethorpes stabling point going to be able to provide the necessary servicing facilities for these units to operate in the medium term, or are we going to see some awkward moves to swap them?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There has been worse (I think) but apart from a ground collapse (which was much shorter) you would have to go back to the Soham disaster when a train carrying explosives caught fire during WW2. 400 tonnes of HE bombs killed the driver and a signalman. The driver and the fireman were both awarded the George Cross.

CORRECTION:
Only one of the 44 carriages holding bombs went up, as they had uncoupled the carriage on fire and had already drawn far enough clear to prevent it setting off the rest of the cargo.

They had gone as far as being alongside the station platforms at Soham railway station when the explosion occurred. A crater, 66 feet in diameter and 15 feet in depth, was created and the blast demolished virtually every station building. Much damage was suffered by properties quite some distance away from the site of the explosion.

Just imagine what the effects would have been if all the wagons had been involved.

 

[Freightmaster]

I'd guess they'll divert as much Immingham and Scunthorpe freight as possible via Brigg (run round at Wrawby Jn for Scunthorpe), but some will probably end up going via Lincoln.

Spot on!

Mostly Aire Valley coal traffic, plus steel from Scunthorpe to Lackenby/
Dollands Moor, binliners to Roxby, and a few other flows.

MARK

 

[Mugby]

Someone said TPE can't use the Brigg line. Why is this?

 

[Widnes Planner]

All sorts of reasons why TPE can't use Brigg line - some of them on the TPE facebook page. 12 miles of single line means 2 paths per hour in each direction max - which is all needed for critical heavy freight from Scunthorpe and Immingham. No traincrew route knowledge, no route conductors available as they'd have to be freight guys, who I'm guessing are a bit busy at the moment. Running via Brigg only helps Sheffield-Cleethorpes passengers, so what about Doncaster/Meadowhall/Scunthorpe. That's just off the top of my head - I suspect there are other reasons...

@IanXC - if it's as long as people are suggesting I can't imagine they could stay there the whole time. TPE don't do any major maintenance at Cleethorpes AFAIK.

 

[boing_uk]

That would have been me then.

Route knowledge and lack of available and suitable paths between Wrawby and Gainsborough and beyond are probably the biggest barriers to providing a TPE service bypassing Scunthorpe and Doncaster.

 

[222001]

I can see Northerns 3 Saturday only Sheffield - Cleethorpes return services via Brigg being popular...

 

[222meridianfan]

Its currently tipping it down in doncaster, i bet it will be worse come daylight

 

[johnnychips]

I can see Northerns 3 Saturday only Sheffield - Cleethorpes return services via Brigg being popular...

At least it isn't the tourist season to Cleggy and I'm not being facetious.

 

[TG]

They will have fun rearranging the platform diagrams at Donny if the TPEs turn round there. Is there anywhere just north of there they could stable?

into platform 5 probably

 

[Tomnick]

As you probably know, the Barton unit's usually swapped midweek by an empty unit from Doncaster early in the morning, the returning unit forming the 0819 (?) stopper from Scunthorpe. What's happening currently with that, and the other trapped units at Cleethorpes, I don't know - do TPE have fuelling facilities in the new depot at Cleethorpes? The Northern unit could probably remain there all week if so (or it can be done by road tanker), swapping on a Saturday - which I think it did when the last long block (between Crowle and Thorne) was on? Sooner or later, though, the TPE units are going to have to be swapped - route conducted via Brigg?

 

[Boothby97]

I wouldn't call an hourly Cleethorpes-Scunthorpe service as limited, that's what we get normally!
Do TPX sign Lincoln?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As you probably know, the Barton unit's usually swapped midweek by an empty unit from Doncaster early in the morning, the returning unit forming the 0819 (?) stopper from Scunthorpe. What's happening currently with that, and the other trapped units at Cleethorpes, I don't know - do TPE have fuelling facilities in the new depot at Cleethorpes? The Northern unit could probably remain there all week if so (or it can be done by road tanker), swapping on a Saturday - which I think it did when the last long block (between Crowle and Thorne) was on? Sooner or later, though, the TPE units are going to have to be swapped - route conducted via Brigg?

Yes there's fuelling facilities and a washer at Cleethorpes, the 185s get done every night but 153s do sometimes visit it
Thanks, Sam

 

[Tomnick]

Ta, that'll help the situation! TPE don't, as far as I know anyway, sign Lincoln or Brigg.

 

[Rich_D3167]

All sorts of reasons why TPE can't use Brigg line - some of them on the TPE facebook page. 12 miles of single line means 2 paths per hour in each direction max - which is all needed for critical heavy freight from Scunthorpe and Immingham. No traincrew route knowledge, no route conductors available as they'd have to be freight guys, who I'm guessing are a bit busy at the moment. Running via Brigg only helps Sheffield-Cleethorpes passengers, so what about Doncaster/Meadowhall/Scunthorpe. That's just off the top of my head - I suspect there are other reasons...

@IanXC - if it's as long as people are suggesting I can't imagine they could stay there the whole time. TPE don't do any major maintenance at Cleethorpes AFAIK.

Longest single line section on the Brigg line is Northorpe to a mile north of Gainsborough Central, which is nowhere near 12 miles, closer to 7 miles. There are only 2 paths per hour in each direction, though (4 in total). If they sent a few freights via Lincoln, though (which has paths for 3 1/2 freights per hour southbound, 4 freights per hour northbound, obviously between the passenger services), you'd free up a few paths there.

 

[Widnes Planner]

@Rich D3167 - twelve miles of single line in total - granted it's in three different stretches. The signalling and single line stretches do still reduce the capacity as described. From memory freight diversions for engineering work tend to be almost exclusively via Brigg too - don't know if there are weight issues via Lincoln, or some other reason why they don't tend to go that way. Anyone?

 

[Rich_D3167]

@Rich D3167 - twelve miles of single line in total - granted it's in three different stretches. The signalling and single line stretches do still reduce the capacity as described. From memory freight diversions for engineering work tend to be almost exclusively via Brigg too - don't know if there are weight issues via Lincoln, or some other reason why they don't tend to go that way. Anyone?

Ah, got what you mean now, regarding the Brigg line single line sections. There is slightly better capacity for Up trains (towards Barnetby), as there's an extra signal betwen Gainsborough Central & Northorpe to break up the single line a little bit, but this is obviously useless to Down trains!

No weight issues via Lincoln. In fact, heavier trains run via Lincoln than what run via Brigg! Colnbrook & Kingsbury tanks all load to 30 tanks, which weigh up to 3,000 tons. I'd say the main issue is in the fact that the route is longer than via Brigg, and pathing may be an issue through Lincoln itself rather than the line between Wrawby Junction & Pelham Street Junction, but there should be enough to squeeze half a dozen freights through per hour.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Perfect excuse - to close that damned 'never say die' colliery - once and for all.

Hello Mrs Thatcher

I'm guessing that the other two lines from Barnetby are going to be pretty chocker then.

Such a shame TPE can't run via Gainsborough.

I can see Northerns 3 Saturday only Sheffield - Cleethorpes return services via Brigg being popular...

Northern have been asked to run extra services from Sheffield Midland - Cleethorpes via Gainsborough & Brigg, just got to wait and see if they have the bottle to do it

 

[Tomnick]

Northern have been asked to run extra services from Sheffield Midland - Cleethorpes via Gainsborough & Brigg, just got to wait and see if they have the bottle to do it

Bottle, units and crew?

 

[ainsworth74]

Northern have been asked to run extra services from Sheffield Midland - Cleethorpes via Gainsborough & Brigg, just got to wait and see if they have the bottle to do it

I suspect 'bottle' will have little to do with it, instead I believe paths, rolling stock and staff availability will dictate if they can or not.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Is this the same northern who are short forming left right and centre as they have rolling stock issuea????!

 

[Rich_D3167]

I suspect 'bottle' will have little to do with it, instead I believe paths, rolling stock and staff availability will dictate if they can or not.

In theory, there should be a couple of spare units around, as Northern aren't running between Doncaster & Scunthorpe where at least 2 units would normally be on the local services. As you have said, the main issue with running a regular service via Brigg is pathing, and certainly staff availability, as I believe very few Northern drivers actually sign the route from Gainsborough Trent Junction to Wrawby Junction, since it only has the Parliamentary service on Saturdays. With the right planning, though, extra training could be put in to train a few more drivers with the route knowledge required, but again, this costs money...

 

[DarloRich]

Northern have been asked to run extra services from Sheffield Midland - Cleethorpes via Gainsborough & Brigg, just got to wait and see if they have the bottle to do it

Who by? You?

I bet top level Northern management are at this very moment sitting in their secret underground lair debating whether or not they are brave enough to run services via Brigg. :roll:

In the real world I imagine it will depend on the availability of units, paths on the line and driver knowledge. Consider that there is a vast amount of critical freight and infrastructure services that have to come out of the Scunthorpe area. They might get priority on the available paths.

 

[YorkshireBear]

In theory, there should be a couple of spare units around, as Northern aren't running between Doncaster & Scunthorpe where at least 2 units would normally be on the local services. As you have said, the main issue with running a regular service via Brigg is pathing, and certainly staff availability, as I believe very few Northern drivers actually sign the route from Gainsborough Trent Junction to Wrawby Junction, since it only has the Parliamentary service on Saturdays. With the right planning, though, extra training could be put in to train a few more drivers with the route knowledge required, but again, this costs money...

Northern are currently short forming services across enture network as the cold weather has sidlined a signifcant proportion of the 15X fleet.
They have no units avaliable, the units released from this (probably only 1 as they are still running to donny) will go in to cover that short fall.

Plus in addition to DarloRich i agree that essential freight paths are far more important.

 

[TG]

that and the fact only the top link drivers and guards at sheffield sign the route... thats only a small handfull of crew!!

 

[Tomnick]

that and the fact only the top link drivers and guards at sheffield sign the route... thats only a small handfull of crew!!

Thanks, I didn't think I was imagining things in the other (Lincolnshire) thread!

 

[christopher]

Latest aerial shot;

 

[tbtc]

Northern are currently short forming services across enture network as the cold weather has sidlined a signifcant proportion of the 15X fleet.
They have no units avaliable, the units released from this (probably only 1 as they are still running to donny) will go in to cover that short fall

I'm glad you posted this - whilst others are using this as an excuse to suggest more trains on the Brigg line the reality is that the landslip gives Northern a bit of breathing space in a fleet that is struggling at the moment

 

[mbonwick]

Latest aerial shot;

A worrying amount of what appears to be water pooled at the top of the slip there....