LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

[Railperf]

Does anyone know when these are likely to be introduced on runs to/from Aberdeen & Inverness?

End of year was mentioned somewhere.

 

[Polarbear]

End of year was mentioned somewhere.

Thanks. I’ll be on the Highland Chieftain on 4 November in the hope that it’ll be one last time with a HST.

 

[Railperf]

Thanks. I’ll be on the Highland Chieftain on 4 November in the hope that it’ll be one last time with a HST.

Yeah. I'm hoping to do the same before they become diagrammed for 800s

 

[57Tonic]

I noticed on Trainline that most operators have tickets available up to December but LNER still only up to 14 November so are they holding off for a November mass introduction of 80x stock.

 

[tom73]

Could somebody be kind enough to tell me how the 800 is a better passenger experience than the existing Class 91. I'm quite happy with the Class 91 and it is not a matter of speed as the Class 91 already operates at the maximum network speed of 125mph. There must be something more than the "thrill" of sitting back in a brand new carriage that smells a little better than the older trainsets.

 

[samuelmorris]

Could somebody be kind enough to tell me how the 800 is a better passenger experience than the existing Class 91. I'm quite happy with the Class 91 and it is not a matter of speed as the Class 91 already operates at the maximum network speed of 125mph. There must be something more than the "thrill" of sitting back in a brand new carriage that smells a little better than the older trainsets.

Spoilers: the new trains are not intended to upgrade the passenger experience, they are to replace ageing equipment that's becoming increasingly difficult to maintain, add operational flexibility by using a common fleet of trains with the option of splitting some services, and provide marginal performance increases through elimination of slam-door operation on the HSTs, and better acceleration.

 

[43096]

Could somebody be kind enough to tell me how the 800 is a better passenger experience than the existing Class 91.

The 800s are significantly worse than the current stock: seats massively less comfortable and abysmal ride quality to name two issues.

 

[class26]

Spoilers: the new trains are not intended to upgrade the passenger experience, they are to replace ageing equipment that's becoming increasingly difficult to maintain, add operational flexibility by using a common fleet of trains with the option of splitting some services, and provide marginal performance increases through elimination of slam-door operation on the HSTs, and better acceleration.

That`s not LNER`s view

Look at their web site.

The new azumas bringing "MORE COMFORT"

To me that means additional comfort ie greater comfort.

 

[EE Andy b1]

The 800s are significantly worse than the current stock: seats massively less comfortable and abysmal ride quality to name two issues.

You are not wrong there.

Before me and friends got turfed off our pair of Class 801s (109 & 110) at Peterborough yesterday due to apparently a DSD (Drivers Safety Device) fault, thanks to those above for the info, we had been lucky enough to be in First class, not great, nowhere near as good as on Mk4s, having breakfast, the LNER onboard staff were great.

Wow what a chore that turned out to be! The breakfast was pretty good but i think it's the first time iv'e sat watching my glass of orange juice, my cup of tea and my breakfast plate sliding back and forth across the table, with my friends breakfasts doing likewise as we sped along at upto 125 mph around some of those curves on the lower end of the ECML. It took longer to have breakfast than should have due to trying to hold onto all the tableware. No need to bother doing the 50 pence piece ride quality test.
I said it with the GWR IETs that the Intercity long distance experience had been diminished, there new trains do look really bland inside and are uncomfortable for longer distance travel. The LNER Bi-modes do look nicer on the interior but the rough ride quality is still there, once again feels like there is no air suspension.

For long distance train travel the future is bleak. The enjoyment has all but gone.

As a footnote, if this is what it's going to be like travelling in a Class 397 or whatever on the Northern half of the West Coast mainline at upto 125 mph without tilt technology from mid 2020, then i think i'd rather wait for the next Pendolino service, although not perfect, a much better ride and travel experience.

 

[Tetchytyke]

We heard all this when Deltics replaced A4s, and again when HSTs replaced Deltics, and again when MkIVs replaced HSTs. Heck, we even heard all this with the Mallard refurbishment.

In 30 years no doubt we'll be hearing lamentations about the loss of IETs.

I've not yet been on an IET (and I'm not optimistic given what the 395s are like) but the HST is no great shakes anymore. Hit a set of points and you bounce halfway down the carriage if you're towards one end.

 

[43096]

That`s not LNER`s view

Look at their web site.

The new azumas bringing "MORE COMFORT"

To me that means additional comfort ie greater comfort.

Not exactly surprise of the century is it that a company doesn't advertise it's new product as being absolute dross.

 

[superkev]

The 800s are significantly worse than the current stock: seats massively less comfortable and abysmal ride quality to name two issues.

I've always thought some entrepreneur could make a fortune selling portable cushions outside station where any of the current crop of new trains are operating.
K

 

[samuelmorris]

We heard all this when Deltics replaced A4s, and again when HSTs replaced Deltics, and again when MkIVs replaced HSTs. Heck, we even heard all this with the Mallard refurbishment.

In 30 years no doubt we'll be hearing lamentations about the loss of IETs.

I've not yet been on an IET (and I'm not optimistic given what the 395s are like) but the HST is no great shakes anymore. Hit a set of points and you bounce halfway down the carriage if you're towards one end.

At the risk of heading down the IET satisfaction rabbit hole again, I don't honestly think the ride quality of the IETs is worse than that of the HST at all, with the lack of bouncing all over the place and the ensuing screeches from the vestibule connections. Again though, I have to state that all of these points are subjective. I personally think with the Mk4s they got it right, but there are plenty of folk on here that hate those too.

As an experiment I am genuinely tempted to bring a cushion with me on an IET the next time I ride one. I highly doubt it'll improve matters but it'd be fun to try.

 

[EE Andy b1]

We heard all this when Deltics replaced A4s, and again when HSTs replaced Deltics, and again when MkIVs replaced HSTs. Heck, we even heard all this with the Mallard refurbishment.

In 30 years no doubt we'll be hearing lamentations about the loss of IETs.

I've not yet been on an IET (and I'm not optimistic given what the 395s are like) but the HST is no great shakes anymore. Hit a set of points and you bounce halfway down the carriage if you're towards one end.

Well when you have been on one or two of these IETs let us know what you think because after over 40 years of development between the HST and these new trains there should be a massive improvement but it just is NOT there. The sets will probably settle down somewhat when they are broke in properly and things have bedded in, i certainly hope so!

 

[Failed Unit]

At the risk of heading down the IET satisfaction rabbit hole again, I don't honestly think the ride quality of the IETs is worse than that of the HST at all, with the lack of bouncing all over the place and the ensuing screeches from the vestibule connections. Again though, I have to state that all of these points are subjective. I personally think with the Mk4s they got it right, but there are plenty of folk on here that hate those too.

As an experiment I am genuinely tempted to bring a cushion with me on an IET the next time I ride one. I highly doubt it'll improve matters but it'd be fun to try.

It is subjective. But the mk4s in standard class were not that comfortable pre-refurbishment. Let’s hope the IEPs get better seats when they are refurbished. That will probably be in 10 years time.

But comfort is going down on the main form of competition as well (aircraft).

 

[trebor79]

Having been on GWR 800s a few times I think they are a decent enough travelling environment for that route. Ride quality is fine, and they are nice and quiet, even when running on diesel.
I'm not sure how I'd feel about shanking up to Inverness on one. If they had more comfortable seats they'd be about perfect.

 

[387star]

I guess there is limit to improving seat cushion comfort on the existing seats

Have LNER done all they could do ?

 

[Railperf]

Having been on GWR 800s a few times I think they are a decent enough travelling environment for that route. Ride quality is fine, and they are nice and quiet, even when running on diesel.
I'm not sure how I'd feel about shanking up to Inverness on one. If they had more comfortable seats they'd be about perfect.

To be honest, 8 hours is long enough to feel saddle sore on any train, even one with the most comfy seats.
I've done Penzance to London on an 802 - 5 hours - without any soreness. And ride quality does depend where you sit in the train. But do the trains feel as special as some of those I have used abroad? No. but that is due to DfT decisions - and not those of the operators.
I'ok report back tomorrow after 4.5 hours aboard an Azuma - but don't expect tales of woe lol.

 

[trebor79]

Actually the last one I used had the replacement seat covers and I was amazed at what a difference that little bit of pile made to the comfort versus the flat cloth version.

 

[class26]

Actually the last one I used had the replacement seat covers and I was amazed at what a difference that little bit of pile made to the comfort versus the flat cloth version.

Was that on the Great Western or East coast ?

 

[trebor79]

Great Western. Haven't been on an LNER one yet.

 

[GrimShady]

At the risk of heading down the IET satisfaction rabbit hole again, I don't honestly think the ride quality of the IETs is worse than that of the HST at all, with the lack of bouncing all over the place and the ensuing screeches from the vestibule connections. Again though, I have to state that all of these points are subjective. I personally think with the Mk4s they got it right, but there are plenty of folk on here that hate those too.

As an experiment I am genuinely tempted to bring a cushion with me on an IET the next time I ride one. I highly doubt it'll improve matters but it'd be fun to try.

I quite like MK4 however there are some notably bad bits of the ECML that the coaches just don't like. It's worse being propelled than dragged IMO.

Mk3 on ECML in recent years hasn't been great. They used to be much better years ago. The best ride I've ever had was Mk3 SLEP, I once awoke very early one morning head south thinking we had stopped somewhere when acutal fact we must have been doing 60-70mph north of London!

I'm utterly dreading the arrival of IET.

 

[Railperf]

On the 0700 to Edinburgh. Seat reservations all working okay. Seems.to be a discrepancy between seat chosen and that assigned. The positioning is correct but numbering is slightly out compared to the seat map. I am trying to work out if the seat map is correct or train layout...confused!! But happy that the position chosen has been honoured.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The ride really isn't that bad. I had breakfast on the 7:08 HST off leeds to Edinburgh the other day and had to hold on to drinks at regular points. As I did on the azuma coming back it is much of a muchness. MkIVs ride worse in my opinion. Seats in azuma, was expecting terrible in standard class, would not say I think they are terrible. Not great.

Seats can be sorted as long as the DafT are not involved!

 

[class26]

The ride really isn't that bad. I had breakfast on the 7:08 HST off leeds to Edinburgh the other day and had to hold on to drinks at regular points. As I did on the azuma coming back it is much of a muchness. MkIVs ride worse in my opinion. Seats in azuma, was expecting terrible in standard class, would not say I think they are terrible. Not great.

Seats can be sorted as long as the DafT are not involved!

Problem is who pays if the DFT isn`t involved ?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Problem is who pays if the DFT isn`t involved ?

Indeed, it is a rather sad Catch 22.

 

[Failed Unit]

Problem is who pays if the DFT isn`t involved ?

The ROSCO on instruction from the TOC. Many trains improved seating quality during the period of franchises. The only reason dft specified in this case was because we didn’t know who would be running the franchise at procurement time.

The seats can and probably will be improved.

I am interested to see how the train copes with all the baggage. Currently the DVT is used. This option is gone now.

 

[Railperf]

Sitting in the middle of the coach - on smith track the ride is very very good. I would put any perception poor ride to the poor quality of track in places! No issues with seat firmness. But wish they would recline a little. The seat backs are too upright. Missing the trolley service too.

 

[Railperf]

Going through the curves at 115mph close to Holy Island - as smooth as anything!

 

[EE Andy b1]

Going through the curves at 115mph close to Holy Island - as smooth as anything!

Where's Holy Island, apart from Holyhead?

Are you on an 800 or 801?