Locked in at Blackburn Station

[skyhigh]

I'm near-certain it's also happened at Rochdale, another island platform on an embankment that means you couldn't easily jump the fence.

I remember it happening in the opposite way at Rochdale, the station wasn't unlocked in the morning meaning that the crew and passengers couldn't get into the station. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened the other way of course.

 

[najaB]

If you are referring to the carpark example, I would disagree with you as it was a small country town and the last bus had gone so people had no other way out.

I presume that their feet still worked?

Imprisoned is not a synonym for stranded.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. In that situation vehicles were being impounded, but people weren't being imprisoned.

I think this is all down to how serious the issue requiring an ambulance was. If the crew did have the time to move it out of the way, they should have done, but if they had to spend all their time keeping the patient safe then it's just one of those things. On arrival you don't know how serious it is, so seconds count, so that isn't the time to be looking for a parking space out of the way.

Causing an obstruction to the highway is an offence, but emergency services would not generally be charged with it, and it may well have a specific exemption for them.

 

[Class800]

I presume that their feet still worked?

Imprisoned is not a synonym for stranded

Not really relevant - as the town is too far to walk - but let's get back on topic

 

[Wolfie]

This wasn't false imprisonment though, it was a cock-up.

Legally l believe that you are wrong. Leaving someone locked in against their will, regardless of cause, is a detention. There was no legitimate legal reason for this one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Legally l believe that you are wrong. Leaving someone locked in against their will, regardless of cause, is a detention.

In the UK false imprisonment does include if that has happened through wilful negligence. A member of staff locking up a station with trains still appearing on the board would seem a good example of this. But the offence wouldn't have been committed if the member of staff had been assured by Control that those trains would be cancelled.

It's a bit moot, though, as I doubt anyone wants someone to be charged with that offence, rather it's being used to point out that it is a valid situation in which to call 999.

 

[LowLevel]

What would normally happen at such a station in extremis is that the station would be left open and the on call person would be sent to lock it up later after the end of service. Obviously some confusion occurred that led to the station being locked up early.

 

[duncanp]

But the offence wouldn't have been committed if the member of staff had been assured by Control that those trains would be cancelled.

This is one possible explanation.

It wouldn't be the first time that a train which is showing as cancelled has actually turned up.

 

[island]

Legally l believe that you are wrong. Leaving someone locked in against their will, regardless of cause, is a detention. There was no legitimate legal reason for this one.

The offence of false imprisonment at common law in England and Wales requires the

• Unlawful
• Intentional or reckless
• Restraint of a victim’s freedom of movement from a particular place

The second ingredient does not appear to me to be met. Reckless is a high legal bar; it is higher than “careless” which I think we have here.

Well, it would probably be more accurate to say "I hope the employees are subject to proper disciplinary processes". That process could end with action being taken against the employee if they messed up, or may result in no action being deemed necessary.

Indeed. A possible outcome of the process could be that the employee is issued with a first written warning, for example. It is not a dichotomy between nothing and being sacked.

 

[Wolfie]

In the UK false imprisonment does include if that has happened through wilful negligence. A member of staff locking up a station with trains still appearing on the board would seem a good example of this. But the offence wouldn't have been committed if the member of staff had been assured by Control that those trains would be cancelled.

It's a bit moot, though, as I doubt anyone wants someone to be charged with that offence, rather it's being used to point out that it is a valid situation in which to call 999.

Absolutely. I do know though of a late (as in now deceased colleague) who successfully obtained compensation from London Buses after threatening legal action on false imprisonment grounds due to failure to stop at a mandatory stop. He was a strange old cove, liked keg bitter, strippers, vintage cars and Polish trams....

 

[island]

Absolutely. I do know though of a late (as in now deceased colleague) who successfully obtained compensation from London Buses after threatening legal action on false imprisonment grounds due to failure to stop at a mandatory stop. He was a strange old cove, liked keg bitter, strippers, vintage cars and Polish trams....

That would technically be kidnap rather than false imprisonment, as false imprisonment requires that someone be kept in one place

 

[Western Sunset]

... however if the last train is late and past their book off time, that's not their problem either. It may shock some on here but people do have lives outside of work.

If that's the attitude of ANY member of railway staff, in a customer-facing role, then heaven help us.

 

[LowLevel]

If that's the attitude of ANY member of railway staff, in a customer-facing role, then heaven help us.

Sadly, bearing in mind that working in the transport industry inherently carries a risk of being affected by delay, it is an attitude that exists - but it is generally not something that is a majority position taken. Many grades do have overtime built in to their contracts, usually an hour if needed. Our place has a bit of an anomaly though - the drivers have an hours obligated overtime. The guards however do not.

I once caused a bit of a stir by telling someone who was crowing in the mess room about having terminated a train early because they wanted to get done on time that I thought they should consider if their career choice was the right one for them (politely!) - they didn't much like that

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sadly, bearing in mind that working in the transport industry inherently carries a risk of being affected by delay, it is an attitude that exists - but it is generally not something that is a majority position taken. Many grades do have overtime built in to their contracts, usually an hour if needed. Our place has a bit of an anomaly though - the drivers have an hours obligated overtime. The guards however do not.

I can kind of see the sense in that - a train terminated short and abandoned blocking the line is a far more serious issue than one terminated short and taken back to the depot DOO.

 

[Spandau]

I'm near-certain it's also happened at Rochdale…

I believe something very similar did indeed happen at Rochdale in the summer. It took several hours to release the affected passengers.

 

[Hadders]

I'm sure this incident will have been a c**k up rather than anything more sinister. If I'd have been trapped I'd have:

1. Used a help point (if there was one); if not
2. Dialled 999 and requested assistance from the police and/or fire brigade
3. Attempted to have broken out of the station. A fire extinguisher is a good way of breaking the glass in a door or window

 

[Cloud Strife]

3. Attempted to have broken out of the station. A fire extinguisher is a good way of breaking the glass in a door or window

I've looked at pictures, and I don't quite understand - is the station surrounded by a fence, or what?

 

[Busaholic]

He was a strange old cove, liked keg bitter, strippers, vintage cars and Polish trams....

I'll admit to having a fancy for three out of those four categories.

 

[Wolfie]

I'll admit to having a fancy for three out of those four categories.

Is there a prize for guessing the odd one out??? lol

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I've looked at pictures, and I don't quite understand - is the station surrounded by a fence, or what?

Main platforms at Blackburn are on an island platform with the surrounding railway lines a storey or so (fifteen feet?) up above street level.

And yes, fences/brick walls immediately adjacent.

 

[joke2711]

Evening all

I received two calls from Northern today.

The first call was an immediate apology and a check on our wellbeing. We were then asked for the full sequence of events from our perspective.
We spoke cordially for around 25 minutes and then were asked for our home address so that a written apology could be sent.

Another call followed later today asking for an email address, as we should be hearing from a Northern Manager tomorrow to discuss events further.

I also stated that it should be placed on record that the Guard acted impeccably in a very difficult situation and they said that her Manager would be informed of this.

 

[najaB]

Main platforms at Blackburn are on an island platform with the surrounding railway lines a storey or so (fifteen feet?) up above street level.

I'd say more than that. The stopped up bridge under the railway adjacent to the station has a clearance of at least 15 feet or so by memory.

 

[pint]

Wouldn't there be any emergency alarms that could be hit, such as fire to get attention?
and likewise couldn't you use reasonable force to get out?

 

[30907]

Wouldn't there be any emergency alarms that could be hit, such as fire to get attention?

Depends whether the fire alarm is connected to eg the fire station, the odd passer-by won't bother at an alarm going off.

and likewise couldn't you use reasonable force to get out?

Theoretically, but I doubt one could do that without equipment. Bolt-cutters for the gates near the car park, anyone?

 

[AlterEgo]

Evening all

I received two calls from Northern today.

The first call was an immediate apology and a check on our wellbeing. We were then asked for the full sequence of events from our perspective.
We spoke cordially for around 25 minutes and then were asked for our home address so that a written apology could be sent.

Another call followed later today asking for an email address, as we should be hearing from a Northern Manager tomorrow to discuss events further.

I also stated that it should be placed on record that the Guard acted impeccably in a very difficult situation and they said that her Manager would be informed of this.

Do keep us updated. I once dealt with a complaint when I worked for Virgin Trains about a gentleman locked in a car park overnight, and suffice to say it was tested very seriously.

Hopefully Northern are able to explain exactly what’s happened here.

 

[Horizon22]

What would normally happen at such a station in extremis is that the station would be left open and the on call person would be sent to lock it up later after the end of service. Obviously some confusion occurred that led to the station being locked up early.

This is what I would expect happen too. I do still find it odd that Control would tell a station a last train was cancelled directly - it would normally be paged out and CIS screens would be updated accrodingly. Not to mention the train obviously wasn't cancelled (perhaps it was reinstated?). Without a look at Tyrell or the logs, it would be hard to know what had been amended (or not).

There's no major issues with service in the 2 hours beforehand at Blackburn (according to RTT), nor did the train lose any time on route (which might indicate an issue which may lead to a service alteration) and started its journey at 2236, so plenty of time to confirm a change. Even if trains are running late, staff would stay on and claim overtime accordingly (or the mentioned on-call manager) turns up. Or main entrances locked up and side entrances are kept open.

Hopefully the OP gets a good and thorough answer from Northern after their initial call. It's a strange situation; I've heard of delays of stations being opened in the past preventing people getting first trains, but not this reverse scenario. At least you had the guard with you - who was no doubt fairly peeved off themselves!

 

[pint]

Depends whether the fire alarm is connected to eg the fire station, the odd passer-by won't bother at an alarm going off.

Theoretically, but I doubt one could do that without equipment. Bolt-cutters for the gates near the car park, anyone?

Fire extinguisher used as a battering ram to get out?
what about walking up the tracks to a railway signal to see if theres a phone , or somewhere to get out?

 

[najaB]

what about walking up the tracks to a railway signal to see if theres a phone , or somewhere to get out?

Walking up the tracks, in the dark isn't something that I'd consider. And I doubt the average passenger even knows that signal post phones exist.

 

[IanXC]

Walking up the tracks, in the dark isn't something that I'd consider. And I doubt the average passenger even knows that signal post phones exist.

In any case, without knowing Blackburn at all, I'd be astounded if none of the platforms have a platform starter signal, which would be provided with a signal post phone, or that there aren't any provided on the platforms for staff use, thus no reason still for any member of the public to be trespassing on the line.

 

[Whistler40145]

If it's past their booking off time they're working a very badly written roster. The roster should allow for time for locking up the station *after* the arrival of the last train and departure of its passengers and crew. I would also expect an allowance for late running of the last service. This could result in the booking off time being rather generous, but that's just one of those things. In this case we don't know why the station was locked but there was clearly a cock-up (human error) of some sort.

Just imagine had the last train had more than the stated 4 persons on it and got locked in the station, that would've been a major incident.