Locked in at Blackburn Station

[najaB]

If it's not a lone worker that relies on two people "forgetting" there's a train coming in, which is beyond belief for "safety critical staff"

To be more precise, it only requires one to forget and the other to get it wrong: "What day it today (looking at the timetable)?" "Thursday." "Okay, thanks".

 

[scrapy]

If it's not a lone worker that relies on two people "forgetting" there's a train coming in, which is beyond belief for "safety critical staff"

As Blackburn does not have dispatchers, I don't think any of the station staff are classed as safety critical.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, it wasn’t. False imprisonment requires an intent to detain.

It can also be prosecuted for intentionally doing something you might reasonably expect to result in detention, such as locking up a station with trains still on the board.

Edit: I do not however think this is an appropriate line to pursue. If the member of staff was negligent they should be disciplined through company procedures. If they weren't, the procedures need to be revised to prevent a recurrence. And the passenger should be compensated with 2 hours Delay Repay plus some additional considerations.

 

[6Gman]

I certainly wouldn't have dialed 999. 101 would be much more appropriate, whilst extremely inconvenient it doesn't require an immediate police response and the OP was perfectly safe. I recently had to dial 999 for something that required an immediate police response and it was very frustrating that it took 6 minutes to answer because all the operators were busy. I would hate to think this was because of people making non emergency calls. Again setting a fire alarm off as suggested elsewhere could potentially divert the fire service from a life saving call out.

I would try other options before contacting emergency services. Looking on noticeboards for an emergency number, googling an emergency number (if you Google 'railway emergency number' you get a number for network rail) or phoning national rail enquiries.

Very wise advice.

A couple of years ago we visited a nature reserve where the only access to the reserve's car park is over a canal lift bridge. Passing boaters are required to alight, lift the bridge, allow their boat through and then lower the bridge.

As we approached we saw (at some distance) two boats pass in opposite directions, and neither lowered the bridge!

So when we got to the car we were trapped, along with another couple visiting. There was a notice with a phone number for the Canals & Rivers Trust and - to cut a long story short - somebody "on call" at a (fortunately nearby) location came out to work the bridge for us. (It required a particular key, and the mechanism was on the far bank)

Phoning 999/101 never occurred to us. For those pondering direct action (smashing down doors, climbing fences etc) we were joined by the father and son living at an adjacent cottage. They were themselves trapped but had clearly seen it all before.

"Appens a lot" said father.
"Aye" agreed son. "Some of the young ones think best way is to take a run at it and jump over the canal."
pause
"None 'as ever made it mind" said dad.

 

[etr221]

It can also be prosecuted for intentionally doing something you might reasonably expect to result in detention, such as locking up a station with trains still on the board.

Edit: I do not however think this is an appropriate line to pursue. If the member of staff was negligent they should be disciplined through company procedures. If they weren't, the procedures need to be revised to prevent a recurrence. And the passenger should be compensated with 2 hours Delay Repay plus some additional considerations.

My view is that, whatever the final legal decision (by a judge, in court) might be, in the circumstance, I would feel falsely imprisoned, and that would justify me in dialling 999.

Wondering whether there are any (and if so, how obvious they are) notices at Blackburn giving an alternative number to call?

 

[farleigh]

I am surprised that there might be people working in 'safety critical' roles who are not aware of what day it is. Seems a bit worrying no?

 

[najaB]

I am surprised that there might be people working in 'safety critical' roles who are not aware of what day it is.

AFAIK they don't have dispatchers at Blackburn. I'm not sure that a ticket office clerk or cleaner, etc would be classed as safety critical.

 

[Bovverboy]

A few thoughts on this:

1. The previous arrival was only 10-15 minutes earlier. Without knowing details - I assume it would also have had a guard, if not passengers, who would have also been locked in had the station already been locked - that implies that the station had been locked up quickly, between the two trains.
2. And as both trains seem to be daily except Sunday, to my mind, that makes a 'just forgot which day it was' excuse somewhat implausible. But hopefully Northern's investigation will come up with an answer on that.
3. I don't thinks anyone has commented on the time taken (a couple of hours) for someone to turn up with a key, as to whether it was acceptable or not - my view is that it wasn't, and certainly should have been sooner. Certainly something for the investigation to look at.
4. Northern/the railway were lucky that the guard was locked in with the passengers, and able to reassure them. Otherwise it could have been much worse. The investigation should be looking at what might have happened - as well as what did.

I'm basically in agreement with etr221 in respect of the above points.

There had actually been two trains which had arrived at Blackburn in the previous fourteen minutes - one was ECS, but you would imagine that there would still have been a conductor needing to alight. This ECS train arrived at 0016, so it seems likely that the station was locked between then and the arrival of the ex-Micklefield train at 0023. The ECS train by definition wouldn't have had passengers, otherwise the locker-up (a late-shift ticket collector?) would probably have been still checking the station when the Micklefield train arrived.

There is very little difference between the Monday-Friday and Saturday timetables, I don't know from where the idea came that the relevant train only runs Friday/Saturday. One difference between the two timetables, however, is that on Mondays to Fridays the ex-York (which is where it normally starts, six days per week) is not the last train scheduled to arrive at Blackburn, but on Saturdays it is. I think that fact may well be relevant here.

Yes, I think it should be questioned why someone needs to come thirty miles or so from Blackpool to release passengers trapped at Blackburn. Presumably if Blackburn station were to burn down overnight, the local Area Manager would hear about it on the TV News the next morning.

Point four, yes, I agree.

Scheduled arrivals at Blackburn, after midnight, midweek, are as follows.
2B99 2339 Clitheroe - Blackburn due 0001
2B63 2243 Rochdale - Blackburn (via Darwen) due 0002
2N98 2304 Manchester Victoria - Blackburn (via Todmorden) due 0012
1B49 2219 York - Blackburn due 0017
5N78 0011 ECS Colne - Blackburn King Street due Blackburn 0036

Saturdays 2B99, 2B63, and 2N98 as Mondays to Fridays. Then:
5N78 2357 ECS Burnley Central - Blackburn King Street due Blackburn 0016
1B49 2219 York - Blackburn due 0021

On Saturday 6/11/21 5N78 was on time, and 1B49, as has been stated, was two minutes late. I think it will transpire that the locker-up simply lost track of which trains had been in, and which hadn't.

 

[johntea]

In retail I believe there is the concept of a 'key holder' - opens / closes the store but also is responsible for responding for example if the store alarm goes off in the middle of the night

I'm surprised a similar system seems not to be used in this case - perhaps a simple emergency mobile phone rota between the various local station management staff (with a bit of financial compensation for being 'on standby' as such) would save a trip from the seaside!

Out of interest are there are staff at 'Northern HQ' that work right up until the last services or do they just knock off at 11pm or whatever time and rely on the local station and on board staff to sort anything out after that point?

 

[najaB]

I'm surprised a similar system seems not to be used in this case - perhaps a simple emergency mobile phone rota between the various local station management staff (with a bit of financial compensation for being 'on standby' as such) would save a trip from the seaside!

That presumes that the keyholder lives locally.

 

[Watershed]

In retail I believe there is the concept of a 'key holder' - opens / closes the store but also is responsible for responding for example if the store alarm goes off in the middle of the night

I'm surprised a similar system seems not to be used in this case - perhaps a simple emergency mobile phone rota between the various local station management staff (with a bit of financial compensation for being 'on standby' as such) would save a trip from the seaside!

That's exactly what is the case here, only that the duty 'key holder' seems to live in Blackpool. Given that for railway roles a commute of up to an hour is usually accepted (and people may relocate after getting a role, or be seconded etc.) that doesn't seem unduly far away.

Out of interest are there are staff at 'Northern HQ' that work right up until the last services or do they just knock off at 11pm or whatever time and rely on the local station and on board staff to sort anything out after that point?

Northern have a Control room (two, in fact) which is staffed 24/7 to respond to any incidents. Obviously there will be fewer staff on duty in the small hours, but there will still be people available to deal with incidents such as this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That presumes that the keyholder lives locally.

I think the suggestion is that there should be required to be a keyholder who lives locally.

 

[Haywain]

Northern have a Control room (two, in fact) which is staffed 24/7 to respond to any incidents. Obviously there will be fewer staff on duty in the small hours, but there will still be people available to deal with incidents such as this.

The control staff will have contacted the on-call manager who is likely to have been the person who attended. However, there needs to be an awareness here that it isn't simply a case of where that manager lives - they were unlikely to have been sitting by the phone with car keys in hand waiting. They may have been asleep in bed or attending to another matter which could cause a slight delay in dealing with this matter. It is also possible that they would have had to stop off somewhere to collect the keys on the way to Blackburn.

 

[Bovverboy]

I'm not particularly impressed by the way a couple of posters seem to have done their best to justify the keyholder being based in Blackpool, and the fact that it took over two hours from the arrival of the train to the passengers being released. In the event they didn't come to any great harm, but all the same I get the feeling that this situation wasn't taken as seriously as it might have been.

 

[najaB]

I'm not particularly impressed by the way a couple of posters seem to have done their best to justify the keyholder being based in Blackpool, and the fact that it took over two hours from the arrival of the train to the passengers being released.

You might not be impressed but if that's where the keys and person who could bring them were then that's where they were.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is also possible that they would have had to stop off somewhere to collect the keys on the way to Blackburn.

There is a clue in the word "keyholder". If there genuinely isn't someone with the keys at home, there should be. It is essential for any business in case of an emergency.

You might not be impressed but if that's where the keys and person who could bring them were then that's where they were.

That might be where they were but isn't good enough, and so Northern need to have someone who actually lives in Blackburn who actually holds the keys i.e. has a set at home. Or as an alternative store them on site in a key safe.

 

[Western Sunset]

The whole point in having a nominated keyholder, or at least it should be, is that they are LOCAL. What happens if, say, the security alarms go off at three widely separate locations around the same time? Appears that Northern needs to get their act together.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The whole point in having a nominated keyholder, or at least it should be, is that they are LOCAL. What happens if, say, the security alarms go off at three widely separate locations around the same time? Appears that Northern needs to get their act together.

Exactly.

There should be someone (ideally two or three people) who actually lives in Blackburn on call with the keys either at home or an on-site key safe. That's prudent for any business.

 

[joke2711]

There is a clue in the word "keyholder". If there genuinely isn't someone with the keys at home, there should be. It is essential for any business in case of an emergency.



That might be where they were but isn't good enough, and so Northern need to have someone who actually lives in Blackburn who actually holds the keys i.e. has a set at home. Or as an alternative store them on site in a key safe.

The On Call Manager from Blackpool had to go to the depot to collect the keys .. this was a 20 minute journey for them.
It was then 40 minutes from Blackpool Depot to Blackburn

 

[Bletchleyite]

The On Call Manager from Blackpool had to go to the depot to collect the keys .. this was a 20 minute journey for them.
It was then 40 minutes from Blackpool Depot to Blackburn

Yes, I think that is clear. I also think it isn't good enough.

Someone who lives in Blackburn needs to hold the keys. Actually hold them. In their house (or an on site key safe).

 

[WelshBluebird]

Yes, I think that is clear. I also think it isn't good enough.

Someone who lives in Blackburn needs to hold the keys. Actually hold them. In their house (or an on site key safe).

That does somewhat assume someone who works at the station and who is senior enough to be a keyholder actually lives in Blackburn itself though.
I know it sounds silly but that isn't guaranteed to be the case.
I actually agree with you in theory but am struggling to work out how practically that would be done!

 

[Deafdoggie]

In retail I believe there is the concept of a 'key holder' - opens / closes the store but also is responsible for responding for example if the store alarm goes off in the middle of the night

That is true, and they are registered with the police so the police can call upon them if required. If a keyholder is on holiday then the person who has the keys instead has to have their details given to the police. The police have an order to call people in if (as is usual) there are several keyholders.
In all the retail establishments I've worked in an insurance requirement is that there is a keyholder who can be there within 15 minutes in an emergency, such as a fire. However, that isn't a requirement for the police.

 

[najaB]

There should be someone (ideally two or three people) who actually lives in Blackburn on call with the keys either at home or an on-site key safe. That's prudent for any business.

And if nobody who works for the company lives in Blackburn?

 

[LowLevel]

On Call managers are not necessarily local to the area. My TOC is split into larger areas and there will be a Bronze, Silver, Gold and Executive on call to cover seniority to respond to different types of incident.

They're not designed to provide access to stations as an emergency response, the police would do that with their big Universal Key if need be.

If one of these managers doesn't live in Blackburn then that's tough, really. Blackpool isn't too far away in the scheme of things.

They're not going to have keys to every station in whatever the area they cover on call in role is, in their home, and neither is say a platform assistant going to be on call for the one day in 10 years you need someone to go and open the station.

They will generally proceed to a nominated hub station manned 24/7 and sign the station keys out from a locked safe.

On one occasion I was the guard on a train and a manager needed to lock up a station that had accidently been left open. The station supervisor at the hub issued me the keys to hand to a named manager who would meet me on the platform, and so I did and they sorted the issue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And if nobody who works for the company lives in Blackburn?

You think there will be not a single employee of Northern in Blackburn? Not one? I'd be amazed. I bet at least one of the ticket clerks does.

I don't see any need for it to be a manager; that's typical railway archaism. If you couldn't trust a ticket clerk with the key, how do you trust them with thousands of pounds? At most retail premises the people who lock and unlock are not very senior.

They're not designed to provide access to stations as an emergency response, the police would do that with their big Universal Key if need be.

I'm assuming you mean the battering ram? Would it perhaps be better that spare keys were in a key safe with the local plod shop (or the BTP) knowing the code, so this sort of situation could be dealt with much quicker?

 

[LowLevel]

You think there will be not a single employee of Northern in Blackburn? Not one? I'd be amazed. I bet at least one of the ticket clerks does.

I don't see any need for it to be a manager; that's typical railway archaism. If you couldn't trust a ticket clerk with the key, how do you trust them with thousands of pounds? At most retail premises the people who lock and unlock are not very senior.



I'm assuming you mean the battering ram? Would it perhaps be better that spare keys were in a key safe with the local plod shop (or the BTP) knowing the code, so this sort of situation could be dealt with much quicker?

The general station staff will have keys to the station, at small or medium sized stations, or have a means of gaining access depending on the circumstances. However the job description of a booking clerk doesn't include being on call at home in case someone needs access in the middle of the night once in a blue moon. Someone *might* need to gain access, which is one of the duties of an on call manager, for which they are paid accordingly, but it may take some time for access to be granted whilst they're organised.

Should it be a genuine emergency then like any other premises yes, the police might have to break in if things can't wait for a little while.

I think this is the usual over the top RailUK response to a particularly rare incident. OK 2 hours to get a key out is not desirable but it isn't the end of the world either.

The railway has processes which have worked forever more and I doubt there is much justification for changing it.

 

[Horizon22]

I am surprised that there might be people working in 'safety critical' roles who are not aware of what day it is. Seems a bit worrying no?

Yes this seems like a bit of a red-herring. Sure sometimes I'm on shift and I briefly forget - but after a brief check of my phone / diagram / station workings / the PC I'm aware after 5 seconds.

You think there will be not a single employee of Northern in Blackburn? Not one? I'd be amazed. I bet at least one of the ticket clerks does.

Yes but that's exactly what "on-call" is for. You're hardly going to be phoning up someone who isn't on shift (fast asleep), doesn't have on-call responsibilites or knowledge or is totally unrelated to station operations. The next best thing after on-call would be to contact the last known station staff member on shift (or whoever was responsible for locking the station), if you can pull up the rosters and find out who it is (which Control should be able to find) and ask what has happened and could they return. They might not reply, but then again they might.

 

[joke2711]

Yes this seems like a bit of a red-herring. Sure sometimes I'm on shift and I briefly forget - but after a brief check of my phone / diagram / station workings / the PC I'm aware after 5 seconds.



Yes but that's exactly what "on-call" is for. You're hardly going to be phoning up someone who isn't on shift (fast asleep), doesn't have on-call responsibilites or knowledge or is totally unrelated to station operations. The next best thing after on-call would be to contact the last known station staff member on shift (or whoever was responsible for locking the station), if you can pull up the rosters and find out who it is (which Control should be able to find) and ask what has happened and could they return. They might not reply, but then again they might.

My understanding is that Control first tried to contact the person who should have locked up after the train had arrived.
There was no answer.

They then called other Blackburn key holders and there was no answer from these either.

This process took about 40 mins before the decision was made to contact an On-Call Manager

 

[Bletchleyite]

My understanding is that Control first tried to contact the person who should have locked up after the train had arrived.
There was no answer.

They then called other Blackburn key holders and there was no answer from these either.

This process took about 40 mins before the decision was made to contact an On-Call Manager

Ah, so the fall-fall-fall-fallback. Fair enough in that case.

 

[Horizon22]

My understanding is that Control first tried to contact the person who should have locked up after the train had arrived.
There was no answer.

They then called other Blackburn key holders and there was no answer from these either.

This process took about 40 mins before the decision was made to contact an On-Call Manager

Sounds like they went through the process I would expect. I am not overwhelmingly surprised that there was no response from other staff (with no knowledge) at 0030-0100. The exception would be the staff member who locked up but any number of reasons why they might not reply (driving, finished shift so no-longer answering, phone switched off, or actively avoiding call[!]).