London Bridge reconstruction works

[user15681]

I'm looking forward to the surprised / confused looks on any suitably refreshed people who have sat facing forwards on these from CHaring X who then wake up going backwards.

They could draft in some experienced travellers to help, for example some of those who have learned to cope with XC via Reading and Birmingham during the same journey...

I hadn't thought about the facing forward dilemma! No doubt I'll end up on the Gillingham service one night, that'll be amusing.

The 2345 train is, of course, a through service to Hastings scheduled to arrive there at 0144 (0141 on Sunday mornings). On regular occasions, such as evenings next week, this service terminates at Tunbridge Wells with a faster and a slower bus service operating on to the coast. The practical extremity of this operation is for passengers to West St Leonards whose bus is scheduled to arrive at 0238, from there any local passengers can expect to reach Hastings at 0252. The whole operation will now, presumably, run a further fifteen minutes later!

In many years travelling the Hastings line I have yet to travel on the very late services and have no intention of reporting on loadings to this, or any other, forum!

So it is, my mistake, apologies. Late services sometimes have an odd spike of loadings thanks to West End theater kicking out times, and then the last one or two tend to be fairly quiet (although not that much quieter than some midday trains).

 

[21C101]

I'm looking forward to the surprised / confused looks on any suitably refreshed people who have sat facing forwards on these from CHaring X who then wake up going backwards.

If they did it properly they would run from Cx via Waterloo E to Cannon Street, then reverse and run from Cannon Street to Blackfriars and reverse there in the bay platforms before running to London Bridge then run round to Victoria, reverse there and run over the Lewisham spur to get to Dartford

Has there ever been a passenger train from Cannon Street to Blackfriars?

 

[Class377/5]

If they did it properly they would run from Cx via Waterloo E to Cannon Street, then reverse and run from Cannon Street to Blackfriars and reverse there in the bay platforms before running to London Bridge then run round to Victoria, reverse there and run over the Lewisham spur to get to Dartford

Has there ever been a passenger train from Cannon Street to Blackfriars?

You can't access the bay platforms from London Bridge at Blackfriars and no SE current stock can reverse at City.

There's been Cannon Street to Blackfriars services in the past.

 

[DVD]

As I understand it (no doubt I will be corrected) The crowding at london bridge will be minimal.

NO trains will be stopping at london bridge for Waterloo east or the Cross. If your at London bridge then your alighting or boarding NOT changing trains. It should reduce the numbers at London Bridge because it is no longer an interchange. You need to decide where to board. Do you walk through the market, Walk along the embankment or Walk past the big giant head. Also removing the Thameslink passengers should also reduce additional passengers.

Interchange and crowding will probably occur at Lewisham because its the last place you can change for Cross/Cannon.

Trains will also run round the reversible (someone will post the "tph etc.") for passengers wanting London Bridge.

I was thinking more about passengers changing to and from the Northern and Jubilee lines, rather than those trying to interchange between Charing X / Cannon Street services. Also the interchange between Southern services and Charing X / Cannon Street services. Very large numbers of people shuttle between Waterloo East (having alighted from Waterloo trains) and London Bridge - in both directions - in the peaks.

The London Bridge area is a thriving business and leisure district these days, for many it is their final destination / originating station. Those who live in south east London and Kent are still likely to want to try to use London Bridge, rather than travel back to Waterloo East / Southwark and then out again, or cross the river to Cannon Street and then back again by train. I expect that regulars will settle down to the new travel patterns within a few weeks, although occasional passengers / tourists / visitors may struggle.

Yes, removing Thameslink passengers should reduce numbers, although it is highly likely that occasional passengers will still turn up at London Bridge expecting to get to use Thameslink services. I don't go anywhere without consulting the National rail app, checking for engineering works etc. Many people don't.

 

[user15681]

...and no SE current stock can reverse at City...

It's late and I might be misreading what you've meant, but 376s can and I'm not aware of this recently being changed? Last I knew there were plans for weekend SE diversions to Blackfriars to run ECS to Smithfields in May 2015.

 

[Class377/5]

It's late and I might be misreading what you've meant, but 376s can and I'm not aware of this recently being changed? Last I knew there were plans for weekend SE diversions to Blackfriars to run ECS to Smithfields in May 2015.

Oops Id forgot about the 376! Curiously Smithfield is cleared for a 10 car 376 in the paperwork.

 

[ComUtoR]

... no SE current stock can reverse at City.

I'm pretty sure you can run a Networker into Blackfriars and change ends. Blackfriars is also reversible for both through platforms.

 

[Busaholic]

You can't access the bay platforms from London Bridge at Blackfriars and no SE current stock can reverse at City.

There's been Cannon Street to Blackfriars services in the past.

I am Father William and can remember travelling from Blackfriars to Cannon Street, in that direction, date unknown but I think it was a Saturday early evening probably in the 1970s, reason lost in the mists of time: as I'm pretty certain that Cannon Street was not normally open at weekends then I guess it was engineering works somewhere (might even have been Jubilee Line works at Charing Cross). No, I can't see the logic in that journey either, but we definitely did it.

 

[Class377/5]

I'm pretty sure you can run a Networker into Blackfriars and change ends. Blackfriars is also reversible for both through platforms.

I said City. Networkers/375 are fine in the through platforms, just can't go north from there.

 

[user15681]

Wasn't really sure where to put this, but some of you may find this latest addition to the website helpful.

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/thameslink/january2015/london-bridge/

Put in your station, and morning or afternoon peak, and it will tell you
- how many trains to each London termini in the peak there are
- where to change for services stopping at London Bridge (the general advice is to join a Cannon Street service from your home station, but if you can't then this tool shows where to change in order to join a service to Cannon Street stopping at London Bridge)

 

[Daz28]

Wasn't really sure where to put this, but some of you may find this latest addition to the website helpful.

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/thameslink/january2015/london-bridge/

Oddly if I put in Hither Green and morning peak it says there is one direct service to Victoria. I can't find this in the timetable or on Real Time Trains.

 

[telstarbox]

I've noticed recently that increasingly, passengers aren't observing the "stand on the right/walk on the left" rule on the escalators at London Bridge. This is having an effect on passenger flows through the station, especially as some escalators around the station are out of action at the moment.

If anyone from NR or TfL is reading, some "reminder" announcements would be handy...

 

[bicbasher]

The bike racks on Platform 8 are moving late on Friday evening to Station Approach. Any bikes left behind will be stored by station staff for a month.

 

[neilm]

Terrible performance for the past two weeks for southern in the mornings and evenings, anyone know what the reason is other than "signalling problems"?

 

[RichardN]

I hadn't thought about the facing forward dilemma! No doubt I'll end up on the Gillingham service one night, that'll be amusing.



So it is, my mistake, apologies. Late services sometimes have an odd spike of loadings thanks to West End theater kicking out times, and then the last one or two tend to be fairly quiet (although not that much quieter than some midday trains).

It's a shame that the servers don't split later. As that would mean announcements would need to be very explicit... I got caught out by this on Hamburg's S1 S-Bahn...

 

[hwl]

Terrible performance for the past two weeks for southern in the mornings and evenings, anyone know what the reason is other than "signalling problems"?

(As an engineer who has enquired quite a lot in to what is going on but not a rail employee)
They moving the control of the "Southern" signalling in the London Bridge box to 3 Bridges when the blockade starts in 15 days time.

To enable this they have been doing lots of signalling work (including track circuits) this year especially after the first blockade early in the year and P14/15 came into use. (as well as replacing points and changes to the track layout).

The NR explanation page linked to as cause of the disruption lately (the last 3 weeks that have been really grim) has been the signalling power supply failure one, which happen to align to changes, upgrades and replacement of the local substation just by Blue Anchor Junction (where the 3 Bermondsey Spur lines split /join the others).

It looks like they are replacing the main feed cables (66kv? from the national Grid 275kv substation at New Cross (aka old kent road gas works) with 33kv ones which need much less maintenance.) and installing lots of new small transformers including in the arches under the viaduct so it is most likely they are having issues there (especially if doing work every night or they have discovered the original plan needs revising).

There were lots of issues with new track circuits but that seem to have gone away since the beginning of October as that seems to have been completed for the time being till the blockade in 2 weeks time. Not looking forward to Monday 5th Jan!

 

[GodAtum]

I know a few people in my company who are planning to quit due to it being very hard to get into the office.

 

[Bald Rick]

Terrible performance for the past two weeks for southern in the mornings and evenings, anyone know what the reason is other than "signalling problems"?

The new track circuits have been working very well. This morning was a points failure on the Southern side (annoyingly these points are decommissioned in 15 days). Tuesday was a cable fault on the southeastern side (annoyingly the cable was due replacement in the next 3 weeks). But most of the delays have been further out. The timetable on the Southern side is at the limit of available capacity in the peak, so if anything goes wrong, there is no scope for recovery until around 0945.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I know a few people in my company who are planning to quit due to it being very hard to get into the office.

Really? I think they should at least see how it is for a while before making career decisions. (I'm losing 100% of my direct service to London Bridge, but will still be doing it).

 

[Chrisgr31]

As a matter of interest what works are they actually doing during this blockade? What wil have changed by the time we return to London Bridge on the 5th?

 

[Barn]

As a matter of interest what works are they actually doing during this blockade? What wil have changed by the time we return to London Bridge on the 5th?

One of the most visible changes (I understand) will be the commissioning of platforms 10 and 11 and the closure of 8 and 9.

 

[LBSCR Times]

As a matter of interest what works are they actually doing during this blockade? What wil have changed by the time we return to London Bridge on the 5th?

And some of the signaling on the Central side will be controlled from Three Bridges ROC!

 

[Chrisgr31]

One of the most visible changes (I understand) will be the commissioning of platforms 10 and 11 and the closure of 8 and 9.

Pleased to hear that as there was a rumour before Christmas that the Southern Side would be down to 3 platforms in January. I expressed doubts about it.

Oh and are they doing any works around Bermondsey during this blockade?

 

[neilm]

Pleased to hear that as there was a rumour before Christmas that the Southern Side would be down to 3 platforms in January. I expressed doubts about it.

Oh and are they doing any works around Bermondsey during this blockade?

They will be down to three tracks though because they will be using the tracks that go from new cross gate up to south bermondsey north junction. I think the other route is disconnected this christmas.

 

[Chrisgr31]

They will be down to three tracks though because they will be using the tracks that go from new cross gate up to south bermondsey north junction. I think the other route is disconnected this christmas.

Ahh this reminds me, how does 3 tracks work? Surely what goes in has to come out so presumably 3 tracks is not ideal. How does it work in practice, 1 in 1 our or 2, or 3 in followed by 2 or 3 out?

 

[neilm]

I think one in and one out and the middle is bi directional from what I have seen of the new signalling installed

 

[bicbasher]

On Christmas Eve, work was happening on the line north of New Cross Gate.

 

[hwl]

LBG approaches:

There is a short section at Bricklayers arms Junction which will be (or probably already is!) 2 tracks (just by SELCHP).

On the Bermondesy Spur (between Bricklayers Arms Jn and South Bermondsey Jn were the South London Lines join) there will be the 3 existing tracks but with different signalling:
(From North to South)
Sussex Reversible
Bermondsey Reversible
Up Bermondsey Spur

From South Bermondsey Jn to Spa Road Jn (circa 0.5m, 2 signalling sections) same signalling but different track names:
(From North to South)
Sussex Reversible
South London Reversible
Up South London

From Spa Road to the station throat:
4 tracks:
Down (2/3 mile remnant of existing down line)
Reversible (-->Sussex Reversible)
Reversible (--> London Reversible)
Reversible (--> Up South London)

Station throat:
4 track down to 3 tracks then out to 6 tracks in the platforms)

So taking the South London Lines service into account it is effectively 2 tracks + lots of juggling room from after New Cross Gate when the trains are at line speed inwards.

Expect some services to wait for a slot in the multitude of "parking places" now available.

 

[Bald Rick]

The work is extensive as you might expect for a 16 day close down of part of a major London terminus. In brief:

Demolishing the old platforms 8 & 9, plus the remnants of the train shed
Commissioning the new platforms 10 and 11, including significant Civils work to construct the country end of platform 10.
Repositioning the gateline on the Southern concourse
Remodelling the track layout at the station throat - installing a dozen switches and crossings.
Decommissioning the connections between Southern side and Southeastern side at Spa rd junction and elsewhere.
Remodelling Bricklayers Arms junction - installing 8 new switches.
Resignalling London Bridge Southern side to New Cross Gate / Queens Road Peckham (excl) - and transfer of control to Three Bridges
Recontrol of the remaining signalling controlled by London Bridge 'Southern' side panels to Three Bridges.

Plus lots of supporting work to electrification, telecoms, power supplies etc.

 

[infobleep]

Will they be renumbering the platforms?

 

[Bald Rick]

Will they be renumbering the platforms?

All the platforms are being progressively completely rebuilt. But at the end of the job there will be platforms 1-15, compared to 1-15 (except 7) beforehand.