London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[jon0844]

Can of Coke about 25-30p from Makro (or even my local pound shop, though it's in Turkish), and I'm sure EC can get a better deal. Or if they're bothering to serve OJ in glasses, get the 3l bottles of Coke in at a ridiculously cheap price and serve that in glasses - or does it look 'common' pouring from a large plastic bottle? Airlines have no qualms about it.

While I'm sure some people would be snobbish about it, I regularly buy own-brand cola (and lemonade) from supermarkets. Yes, the taste is different to Pepsi or Coke and I am not going to pretend otherwise, but you could still offer fizzy drinks that taste perfectly good to people with little cost. Most likely cheaper than OJ. Cola is probably the one drink people have most 'opinion' on, but less so on a lemonade or fizzy orange.

However, failing that, serving carbonated drinks from bottles instead of giving away expensive cans (which also results in more waste to manage) makes sense. It does go flat once opened, but not that quickly, so the wastage there would be (should be) chucking away a bottle if it has been opened for longer than xx hours - certainly not keeping anything overnight in a fridge.

What a shame I've not seen Virgin cola for years - I'd love to see EC offering that.

 

[ainsworth74]

Also secured a "single" in K - handy for the bar !!!

You're going to Inverness and back, right (I'm jealous by the way )? In which case, HSTs don't have a coach K they only have J, L and M (in first)...

Yes, the taste is different to Pepsi or Coke and I am not going to pretend otherwise, but you could still offer fizzy drinks that taste perfectly good to people with little cost.

Maybe I am a bit snobbish but I just can't get on with the taste of own-brand cola, I don't know what it is but really I really don't like it. Lemonade I have no problem with but cola, eughh, real stuff always for me.

 

[jon0844]

I loathed paying Coke so much for its drink - ridiculously overpriced (especially if you buy in cans, which are arguably the most convenient). I still drink gallons of the stuff, especially when out, but I don't mind the 'no-name' drinks.

The key is to simply see Sainsbury's Cola (or whatever) as being a drink you like the taste of, and not to compare with Coke (or Pepsi).

However, I fully accept that the combination of a nice taste AND incredibly strong branding, most people will want 'the real thing'.

Given how little you see Virgin cola anywhere now, I'm surprised Sir Richard didn't kick up a fuss about that and get Coke banned and his drink put into every store, pub and restaurant in the world. Maybe someone should start an e-petition?!

 

[Butts]

You're going to Inverness and back, right (I'm jealous by the way )? In which case, HSTs don't have a coach K they only have J, L and M (in first)...



Maybe I am a bit snobbish but I just can't get on with the taste of own-brand cola, I don't know what it is but really I really don't like it. Lemonade I have no problem with but cola, eughh, real stuff always for me.

Well spotted it is indeed "J" - from my experience the HC is rammed so wanted to be close to "the action" - ie Bar for both journeys.

Whatever happened to Virgin Cola

 

[telstarbox]

It died.

 

[calc7]

Well spotted it is indeed "J" - from my experience the HC is rammed so wanted to be close to "the action" - ie Bar for both journeys.

I don't blame you. I've been on the 1730 ex-EDB (i.e. the 1450 ex-ABD) s/bound - the poor folks who took up their cheapo seats in "M" didn't get their first drink until Berwick. Luckily I'd bagged my party the "4" in coach J right by the bar so we got ours immediately. Meant we'd finished our drinks by the time the trolley wally came back and so got an unrostered second helping.

 

[Butts]

I don't blame you. I've been on the 1730 ex-EDB (i.e. the 1450 ex-ABD) s/bound - the poor folks who took up their cheapo seats in "M" didn't get their first drink until Berwick. Luckily I'd bagged my party the "4" in coach J right by the bar so we got ours immediately. Meant we'd finished our drinks by the time the trolley wally came back and so got an unrostered second helping.

Luckily I was able to transfer my "cheapo ticket" from M (original allocation) to J.

From my experience it always pays to be polite to the staff (ie crawl) and the Whisky keeps flowing

 

[jon0844]

It died.

I blame the Tories.

 

[Butts]

I blame the Tories.

I think whoever was responsible deserves congratulations from my memory of the product

 

[calc7]

Luckily I was able to transfer my "cheapo ticket" from M (original allocation) to J.

From my experience it always pays to be polite to the staff (ie crawl) and the Whisky keeps flowing

Good work.

Some shameless grovelling does indeed bolster food and booze provisions. I have been given an almost-full (litre) bottle of wine on Virgin before simply for being banterous with the staff.

 

[Butts]

Have East Coast got the gumption to promote The Highland Chieftan as a special service....with catering leading the way.

"Highland Breakfast" - let's add haggis and black pudding to the currrent offer and have a proper choice of eggs.

"Gourmet Lunch" - served between Edinburgh and Newcastle Starter Steak and nice Pudding.

"Afternoon Tea" - served between York and London - not "scone express" fayre proper scones with lashings of jam and clotted cream.

Let's get a Chef onboard with proper cooking facilities.....

Oh and can I still have Cheap Advanced First's - I'd be quite happy to pay £30 for the "full works" on top of my ticket price.

Pinch me I'm dreaming

 

[ainsworth74]

Let's get a Chef onboard with proper cooking facilities.....

I was actually under the impression that the HC still had a chef southbound. Of course once upon a time the HC had a full restaurant service and even when that went there was still the at-seat dining option in first class (and which standard could order and take back to their seat). Now of course it's all very hit and miss and nothing like as substantial.

 

[Butts]

I was actually under the impression that the HC still had a chef southbound. Of course once upon a time the HC had a full restaurant service and even when that went there was still the at-seat dining option in first class (and which standard could order and take back to their seat). Now of course it's all very hit and miss and nothing like as substantial.

How can you tell whether there is a Chef onboard or not -does it make any difference to the menu at breakfast time ?

Why can't we have a fried or poached egg ?

 

[ainsworth74]

How can you tell whether there is a Chef onboard or not -does it make any difference to the menu at breakfast time ?

Why can't we have a fried or poached egg ?

No it makes no difference in terms of the menu but the quality tends to be a bit better. The only way to really tell is a) look in the kitchen and see if a member of crew dressed up in whites or b) a crew member dressed up in white brings you your food. As for why you can't have fried or poached egg (though I don't think poached has ever been an option even in restaurant days) it's to ensure consistency between the CSA prepared breakfast and the chef prepared breakfast.

 

[Butts]

No it makes no difference in terms of the menu but the quality tends to be a bit better. The only way to really tell is a) look in the kitchen and see if a member of crew dressed up in whites or b) a crew member dressed up in white brings you your food. As for why you can't have fried or poached egg (though I don't think poached has ever been an option even in restaurant days) it's to ensure consistency between the CSA prepared breakfast and the chef prepared breakfast.

Very witty with the "whites" remarks - your response begs the question if consistency between the two is the prime objective whats the point of having a chef on at all during the "breakfast run"

Are they more efficient at heating things up or operating an oven ?

 

[calc7]

Very witty with the "whites" remarks - your response begs the question if consistency between the two is the prime objective whats the point of having a chef on at all during the "breakfast run"

Are they more efficient at heating things up or operating an oven ?

Funnily enough - the answer to your tongue-in-cheek remark is probably "yes"! I imagine there is a critical number of passengers beyond which it is more economical to pay a trained chef than gamble on your CSAs being able to manage.

I like your ideas for the HC - sadly I can't see any such enhancements being for that service only (no economies of scale, restricted market). They would be better off trialling it on the fast EDB<>KGX fast trains (00 from KGX, 30 from EDB) or something, where there is a bit more of a "business" market. Perhaps they could even try serving champagne like the old Leisure Select on Eurostar.

I really do need to pinch myself now!

 

[Bungle73]

They seem to have altered the way they do things again. Where as before they took hot food orders when they came round with the sandwiches etc. Now they come round separately, before the food trolley, only taking hot food orders.

And is there some reason they have to write orders on a napkin? I would have thought EC could have provided staff with a notebook to write orders down on.

 

[ainsworth74]

They seem to have altered the way they do things again. Where as before they took hot food orders when they came round with the sandwiches etc. Now they come round separately, before the food trolley, only taking hot food orders.

Was that on an all-day or evening meal service? On evening meal services I've seen it done both ways, hot orders at the same time as sandwiches or a separate run so it could just be down to how the crew want to do things.

And is there some reason they have to write orders on a napkin? I would have thought EC could have provided staff with a notebook to write orders down on.

Did you not know? This is part of the upgrade to the first class offering having staff write orders down on napkins! Back in the bad old days of at-seat dining staff used to have to use PDAs which sent orders straight back to the kitchen as they were taken by CSAs. It's far better now using a system of napkins to take orders...

On a more serious note, I have no idea. I've always assumed East Coast couldn't be bothered giving their staff the proper equipment for the job.

 

[Bungle73]

Was that on an all-day or evening meal service? On evening meal services I've seen it done both ways, hot orders at the same time as sandwiches or a separate run so it could just be down to how the crew want to do things.

All day. But it was on two separate services.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Did you not know? This is part of the upgrade to the first class offering having staff write orders down on napkins! Back in the bad old days of at-seat dining staff used to have to use PDAs which sent orders straight back to the kitchen as they were taken by CSAs. It's far better now using a system of napkins to take orders...

. . . .

I've always assumed East Coast couldn't be bothered giving their staff the proper equipment for the job.

Oh, but they did!

Part of the programme of refurbishing the kitchens 18 months ago was the installation of those big screens and printer at the Country end of the kitchen. They would display and print the orders as the CSA's typed them into their remote devices from wherever they were in the 3 First Class coaches, so that Chef would be able to start preparing the meals just as soon as the order was taken.

There was no paper management system for the printer and connections were unreliable, and the customer demand remained feeble, and so . . .
staff now walk up and down with napkins, and if Chef catches up with whatever 'napkin orders' have been brought back to her/him, then they're quite likely to walk back though the coaches asking passengers 'What have you ordered?' before the CSAs get back with the, er, napkin*.
[*other paper products are available].

So you see, its not just napkin-technology replacing bluetooth & wi-fi technology, its human contact with customers replacing nakpin-technology!

But none of that really matters now. The complexity of the meals has been reduced to such a simplistic level, and the passenger loadings remain at such abysmally low number*, that there is no urgency at all on the vast majority of services.

[*I experienced repeated PA announcements one night last week apologising for the 'overcowding on your service, which was due to . . . '. I turned round to count the 5 other passengers in that overcrowded coach.]

 

[John @ home]

I experienced repeated PA announcements one night last week apologising for the 'overcrowding on your service, which was due to . . . '. I turned round to count the 5 other passengers in that overcrowded coach.

Yes, there was a similar announcement on the 1715 Leeds - London this evening, where none of the First Class carriages reached one third occupancy.

A few months ago, that train was quite busy in First Class especially between Leeds and Wakefield. The Standard Single for this journey is £3, the First Class £3.60. Many Wakefield citizens thought the additional 60p good value for a cup of coffee and a small packet of two biscuits. But one of the many service changes has the coffee and biscuits now served separately, with the biscuits appearing only south of Wakefield, whose good citizens have evaluated the new offering and deserted First Class on the 1715 in droves.

 

[Butts]

Yes, there was a similar announcement on the 1715 Leeds - London this evening, where none of the First Class carriages reached one third occupancy.

A few months ago, that train was quite busy in First Class especially between Leeds and Wakefield. The Standard Single for this journey is £3, the First Class £3.60. Many Wakefield citizens thought the additional 60p good value for a cup of coffee and a small packet of two biscuits. But one of the many service changes has the coffee and biscuits now served separately, with the biscuits appearing only south of Wakefield, whose good citizens have evaluated the new offering and deserted First Class on the 1715 in droves.

Unlike East Coast to be so penny pinching - at least they won't run out of shortbread further down the line !!!

 

[ainsworth74]

at least they won't run out of shortbread further down the line !!!

That's probably why they've done it

 

[Bungle73]

Just because FC is empty it doesn't mean that SC isn't full.

Oh and I forgot to mention in my previus post that when they took the food orders they were asking everyone where they were travelling to. They didn't do that before ime.

Oh, and the guard didn't come round until quite late into the journey. So if I'd been getting off earlier I could have enjoyed all the treats of FC without anyone checking I was actually entitled to it!

One more thing, on my outward journey the guard made an announcement, and the voice was that of a black woman, but when they came round it was a white man! :?

 

[ainsworth74]

Oh and I forgot to mention in my previus post that when they took the food orders they were asking everyone where they were travelling to. They didn't do that before ime.

They've done that several times before when I've been travelling. Though admittedly not every single time.

 

[IanXC]

One more thing, on my outward journey the guard made an announcement, and the voice was that of a black woman, but when they came round it was a white man! :?

I once had a young Australian guy turn into an older broad Yorkshireman. Are you sure the first announcement wasn't the Catering Supervisor?

 

[Bungle73]

I once had a young Australian guy turn into an older broad Yorkshireman. Are you sure the first announcement wasn't the Catering Supervisor?

Yes, she said she was the guard and would be coming round doing a ticket check.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . when they took the food orders they were asking everyone where they were travelling to. They didn't do that before ime.

Quite common, especially where there are going to be passenger travelling for under 70mins who will not qualify for the full catering offer (e.g. Edinburgh to Dunbar or Berwick, London to Stevenage or Peterborough).

. . . the guard didn't come round until quite late into the journey. So if I'd been getting off earlier I could have enjoyed all the treats of FC without anyone checking I was actually entitled to it!

Maybe not, but if any passenger had been travelling on the wrong ticket, then the walk-up ticket costing £100, £200 or more would provide enough of a net gain, don't you thnk? I see it happen!
Its the same principle as all other threads in which passengers expres surprise at not having their ticket checked. But on average, randomised checks catch enough evaders with high enough penalties for ticket-roulette to a profitable game.

One more thing, on my outward journey the guard made an announcement, and the voice was that of a black woman, but when they came round it was a white man! :?

Double staffing does occur, usually with a trainee accompanied by a long-serving supervisor.

 

[Bungle73]

Quite common, especially where there are going to be passenger travelling for under 70mins who will not qualify for the full catering offer (e.g. Edinburgh to Dunbar or Berwick, London to Stevenage or Peterborough).

Never happened to me before, and I've travelled 8 times since last September previous to these two trips.

 

[ainsworth74]

Never happened to me before, and I've travelled 8 times since last September previous to these two trips.

Then you've just been lucky I guess. I've also had several times myself so this isn't a new policy.