Done a few First class journeys the past two weeks and two services have had a 'Crew Manager' on board that have been assisting with serving food and clearing plates. They aren't wearing uniform; just a name badge. One of them has been just been telling staff not to do something with the glasses. Is there a staff shortage or is this some kind of frontline experience/training programme?
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London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service
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Iskra
Established Member
Sounds like managers trying to improve standards.
One thing I've noticed recently that I haven't seen before is chefs carrying food out and clearing plates away.
I've not seen that for a while either though the last time I saw they were serving drinks from the alcohol trolley! I do kind of like it when they do take the plates away as its nice opportunity to complement the chef of their cooking (if appropriate
)Well today I was served tea on the 0800 from Edinburgh by someone wearing a jumper and ripped jeans!
That was followed by the toast famine and the lack of orange juice before Darlington.
There was someone else wandering about clearing up wearing a yellow t-shirt.
Positively one of the worst journeys I've had this year and from observation it more looked like agency/casual staff than managers getting stuck in.
That was followed by the toast famine and the lack of orange juice before Darlington.
There was someone else wandering about clearing up wearing a yellow t-shirt.
Positively one of the worst journeys I've had this year and from observation it more looked like agency/casual staff than managers getting stuck in.
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I could barely contain my laughter recently on a journey from Edinburgh to Dundee when the cheese and tomato tart was served on a plate with, rather than the mixed leaf salad, the crisps!!! They had been taken out of the packet and a handful placed on the plate and then served with not a word like it was totally normal. It was almost a surreal experience. I wasn't particularly laughing at the staff, but to just deliver that on its own with no acknowledgement that it is a bit weird or apology for the lack of salad is just hilarious.
The response of the twitter team? "We like to give you a nice surprise" in a nutshell. This operation is a complete joke at times. There are a lot of resources going into it - the salaries of 4 or 5 staff who are dedicated to onboard catering for a start, plus contracts to provide clean glassware and crockery, you would think they would be able to pull off something that actually looks professional and has the premium quality that the fares and the website suggest it has. Instead, they are here to "Surprise!!" you! Could you imagine an airline serving you crisps with a cheese tart, cold tea and rationed juice? And then you discover that you're expected to pass your own dirty dishes over. I mean I don't object to this specifically but if they want to create something that is actually a premium service...
Inevitably something insane like this happens on almost every single journey. The offer is good, in the market it is in, nobody's disputing that. But it is highly inconsistent. At least they were happy to give everyone 2 bottles of Vodka before 1100! You might need it!
The response of the twitter team? "We like to give you a nice surprise" in a nutshell. This operation is a complete joke at times. There are a lot of resources going into it - the salaries of 4 or 5 staff who are dedicated to onboard catering for a start, plus contracts to provide clean glassware and crockery, you would think they would be able to pull off something that actually looks professional and has the premium quality that the fares and the website suggest it has. Instead, they are here to "Surprise!!" you! Could you imagine an airline serving you crisps with a cheese tart, cold tea and rationed juice? And then you discover that you're expected to pass your own dirty dishes over. I mean I don't object to this specifically but if they want to create something that is actually a premium service...
Inevitably something insane like this happens on almost every single journey. The offer is good, in the market it is in, nobody's disputing that. But it is highly inconsistent. At least they were happy to give everyone 2 bottles of Vodka before 1100! You might need it!
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Blindtraveler
Established Member
That response from Twitter is just laughable. A bit like most things to do with East Coast First catering IMHO. The offerings on West Coast or even the paid for option on other TOCs are far supirior. Sorry, fact.
starmill that sounds as good my journey the only thing is there is no booze on the 0800 they don't even crack open the coke let alone alcohol so I had the cold tea infused with coffee.
In done with the complaints team and am emailing David Horne directly sod this. At the very least it should then get passed to someone with a bit of sense in the complaints team.
In done with the complaints team and am emailing David Horne directly sod this. At the very least it should then get passed to someone with a bit of sense in the complaints team.
Sorry, opinion, not fact
I find East Coast to be excellent the majority of the time and very rarely do I experience service which I would find a need to complain about. I can't recall the last time they ran out of main or anything else.
The worst experiance I've had in the last little while was a failure to have any toast on a breakfast service and to be honest I'll live without it as long as they have the grill!
I've not done West Coast as often as East Coast (for obvious reasons) but whenever I have the service has not set the world on fire and one of the occasions they actually ran out of evening meals so I ended up with sandwiches. That hasn't happened on East Coast since July 2011!
On the whole I have to agree with this, the majority are ok (Occasionally excellent) and from my experience it is the same services over and over that are the issue, I'd understand if it were the same crews everytime there was an issue but it isn't.
A lot of the very cheap fares no longer exist since it changed to Virgin and the number of rewards tickets will be declining week on week therefore I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a consistent level of service considering what I pay for my tickets is going up.
*I realise not everyone's tickets have gone up but this does appear to be the trend when you read their social media threads.
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Ainsworth and I have discussed this before. We've come to the conclusion that he's usually served by a Newcastle crew, and I would usually be served by a Leeds or London (sadly more likely to sandbag) crew except in Scotland, where Edinburgh crews are sometimes as good as Newcastle crews but not always. The number of times bad things have happened to me may also be a product of traveling on the later services. However they should not be excused, catering supplies should be more robust than they are and there are definitely more staff out there on the East Coast who haven't had the proper training or think they can get away with things that they shouldn't be allowed to.
West Coast's menu is less ambitious, but it's far more deliverable. Plus if they let you down, they will make it up to you. My experience with East Coast customer relations in Plymouth has been at times a disgrace.
West Coast's menu is less ambitious, but it's far more deliverable. Plus if they let you down, they will make it up to you. My experience with East Coast customer relations in Plymouth has been at times a disgrace.
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Yes, you have summed it up pretty well in that post tbh. Of note from yesterday morning on the 0800 the crew changed at Newcastle and the service dramatically improved. It's rare for me to go beyond Newcastle tbh as that is where my office is. Until NCL yesterday it was a Scottish crew. Are there still any Glasgow crew to staff that one service or will they be Edinburgh crew taxied through?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And then tonight on the 1830 from London the crew have demonstrated how to do it perfectly. It's an NCL crew going by the accents so the earlier discussion definitely holds weight.
The jerk pork is probably one of the best (and most filling) meals I have been served on EC.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And then tonight on the 1830 from London the crew have demonstrated how to do it perfectly. It's an NCL crew going by the accents so the earlier discussion definitely holds weight.
The jerk pork is probably one of the best (and most filling) meals I have been served on EC.
It's a shame really because there have been a few edge cases for me recently. I had the option of an £8.50 upgrade on a Grantham to London journey departing at around 0830, it would have been an ex-Leeds breakfast train and the journey is long enough that I would be served the full menu. I turned it down on the basis that I know the chances are slim that the Leeds crew will offer a second glass of juice or cup of tea, and that they almost certainly won't bother with biscuits or the very rare 'additional bakery item'. I know from experience that theres also a larger chance than I'd like that they will have run out of either veggie breakfasts or of bakery items, or that the train will be short-staffed. I also know from experience that if they are short-staffed and have no chef, or they have no stock for the veggie option, their Customer Relations are likely to fob me off.
For this reason and, feeling a bit sad, I decided £8.50 wasn't worth the risk and booked Standard Class.
For this reason and, feeling a bit sad, I decided £8.50 wasn't worth the risk and booked Standard Class.
Iskra
Established Member
Back to inconsistency again yesterday:
1055 York-Edinburgh. Boarded to find my table dirty with used crockery etc. Bloke comes to offer coffee, I ask for a coffee, he pours it into the dirty mug, I pointed out it wasn't my mug and then he got ****y with me. The two female catering staff were lovely though. The TM also annoyed me a little. When she checked my ticket I asked her about the status of the Glasgow-Dumfries line as there's been no service. She said she'd check the emails and get back to me. She then got off the train at Newcastle. I felt like she fobbed me off... Also, only 2 drinks runs and I overheard a group of 4 normal passengers discussing how the 1st offering has gone down hill recently.
2246 Newcastle-Leeds. Boarded to a coach full of dirty crockery, including my seat again. In fairness the train was busy due to the Edinburgh Fringe (the same service last week had 3 passengers in 1st). The staff member was apologetic about probably not having much food left, which I can understand being probably one of the last passengers of the day. I'd already eaten anyway so just asked for a packet of crisps. Train emptied after Darlo, where my glass was whisked away after only one drink run, the staff clearly more interested in packing up rather than serving anything. On the same service last week I was probably offered over a bottle of wine. They were at least polite though, unlike the customer service assistant on the morning service.
A couple of general points on VTEC 1st class, from someone who runs a successful catering business:
- I'm starting to wonder whether VTEC simply don't care, maybe they think it isn't worth improving until the class 800's come along and the offer will change then?
- Their recruitment is poor. There are some staff members who clearly have no time for customers and appear hassled when requested to do simple things.
- Those staff members with bad attitudes need managing-out of the business. They are getting paid about £5k above industry average for the job they do. If that doesn't motivate them, then there is clearly no hope.
- On HST's the catering staff need instructing to close the windows on the doors as they walk past. I'm sick of having to do this to prevent frostbite setting in (seriously, they walk past open windows at 10pm in February...).
- I think they should go towards FGW's Pullman 1st Service- snacks and bar service for everyone and then charge for food and service that is actually worth paying for.
- 'Mystery shopping' needs to start happening, and urgently. Some of the stuff I've witnessed or experienced has been appalling.
1055 York-Edinburgh. Boarded to find my table dirty with used crockery etc. Bloke comes to offer coffee, I ask for a coffee, he pours it into the dirty mug, I pointed out it wasn't my mug and then he got ****y with me. The two female catering staff were lovely though. The TM also annoyed me a little. When she checked my ticket I asked her about the status of the Glasgow-Dumfries line as there's been no service. She said she'd check the emails and get back to me. She then got off the train at Newcastle. I felt like she fobbed me off... Also, only 2 drinks runs and I overheard a group of 4 normal passengers discussing how the 1st offering has gone down hill recently.
2246 Newcastle-Leeds. Boarded to a coach full of dirty crockery, including my seat again. In fairness the train was busy due to the Edinburgh Fringe (the same service last week had 3 passengers in 1st). The staff member was apologetic about probably not having much food left, which I can understand being probably one of the last passengers of the day. I'd already eaten anyway so just asked for a packet of crisps. Train emptied after Darlo, where my glass was whisked away after only one drink run, the staff clearly more interested in packing up rather than serving anything. On the same service last week I was probably offered over a bottle of wine. They were at least polite though, unlike the customer service assistant on the morning service.
A couple of general points on VTEC 1st class, from someone who runs a successful catering business:
- I'm starting to wonder whether VTEC simply don't care, maybe they think it isn't worth improving until the class 800's come along and the offer will change then?
- Their recruitment is poor. There are some staff members who clearly have no time for customers and appear hassled when requested to do simple things.
- Those staff members with bad attitudes need managing-out of the business. They are getting paid about £5k above industry average for the job they do. If that doesn't motivate them, then there is clearly no hope.
- On HST's the catering staff need instructing to close the windows on the doors as they walk past. I'm sick of having to do this to prevent frostbite setting in (seriously, they walk past open windows at 10pm in February...).
- I think they should go towards FGW's Pullman 1st Service- snacks and bar service for everyone and then charge for food and service that is actually worth paying for.
- 'Mystery shopping' needs to start happening, and urgently. Some of the stuff I've witnessed or experienced has been appalling.
Well until May 2011 East Coast offered full Pullman style restaurants on a number of services (including breakfast and dinner) and At-Seat Dining (equivilent to the former Travelling Chef) on many others (and nearly all Anglo-Scot services).
According to East Coast the current first class catering arrangements are more successful.
Iskra
Established Member
Sorry, I wasn't aware of that. That's when I lived in the North West so only experienced VTWC.
Haha, yes I did actually think the same thing when I saw how busy it was.
My next leisure jaunt is on the 26th and 27th 0730 south and 1530 North. The 1530 is the one I always get if heading north at that time as it isn't a scone express.
Still working in Preston so mainly using VTWC. The menu is nowhere near as ambitious but far more deliverable IMO.
I think the problem with the Pullman-style service is that of finding seats after you have finished your meal in the restaurant. It's great for a journey like London to Bristol, as that is enough time to spend the whole journey in the restaurant without having to rush, but any longer and you are outstaying your welcome.
Silver Cobra
Member
This thread has been a rather interesting read. It seems the overall consensus is that the standard of the first class service on VTEC can vary quite a bit depending on the time of day and the route travelled.
I am travelling in FC between Newcastle and Peterborough this Friday, using the 1625 Newcastle to Kings Cross service. I'm just wondering if anyone has used this service recently and if so, what can I expect in terms of the standard of service in FC? With it being a service starting at Newcastle, and how the Newcastle teams receive regular praise in this thread, I'm hoping it's one of their teams that will be working the service. In terms of the catering, the timetable shows this service offers the 'All-Day' menu, which does sound rather interesting.
All in all, as my ticket only cost me an extra £3.60 over getting a standard ticket (at the time of booking standard advance was £29.90 while first advance was £33.50), even just a round or two of drinks would make me happy. But it would be nice for my first FC journey with VTEC to experience the better side of their service rather than the poorer side.
I am travelling in FC between Newcastle and Peterborough this Friday, using the 1625 Newcastle to Kings Cross service. I'm just wondering if anyone has used this service recently and if so, what can I expect in terms of the standard of service in FC? With it being a service starting at Newcastle, and how the Newcastle teams receive regular praise in this thread, I'm hoping it's one of their teams that will be working the service. In terms of the catering, the timetable shows this service offers the 'All-Day' menu, which does sound rather interesting.
All in all, as my ticket only cost me an extra £3.60 over getting a standard ticket (at the time of booking standard advance was £29.90 while first advance was £33.50), even just a round or two of drinks would make me happy. But it would be nice for my first FC journey with VTEC to experience the better side of their service rather than the poorer side.
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This weeks menu is here https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.c...ce/first-class/menu/next-week/?mq=menu3#menu3
The fish cake is nice, however this weeks sandwiches IMO are the best of the current rotations.
Food orders and hot drinks should be taken pretty much on departure. The bar service will prob be on departure and after York with potentially a third run thrown in depending on the stops.
The fish cake is nice, however this weeks sandwiches IMO are the best of the current rotations.
Food orders and hot drinks should be taken pretty much on departure. The bar service will prob be on departure and after York with potentially a third run thrown in depending on the stops.
gazthomas
Established Member
Sounds pretty good
Bishopstone
Established Member
Had a day trip to the north-east on Thursday.
Up on the 08.30 Kings Cross to Newcastle, all the way. Occupancy in First was about 50% as far as York, where many - including a rather loud group of four guys opposite me - departed for the races.
Toast (one, rather small slice) was served around Stevenage, with the plate whisked away shortly thereafter. The cooked breakfast did not arrive until just after Peterborough, but was well presented, although I'm not sure the cheese flan really works as a component - I would prefer a portion of baked beans. (That said, I spill more food than my toddler nephews, and was wearing a crisp white work shirt, so maybe the lack of beans was a blessing.)
There were a few hot drink runs, but service ceased entirely just south of York other than for those joining at York.
A family group behind me, and a single guy in front of me, seemed to be told they would only get toast and pastries unless they paid a £5 upgrade at the Cafe Bar. This surprised the family, but the other guy appeared to anticipate it. What was that all about? Priv ticket holders, perhaps?
I couldn't fault the staff, but really the portions of butter and preserves they hand out require two slices of toast to avoid wastage.
After business in County Durham, I was dropped back at Darlington for the 16.57 (ex-Newcastle) to London. Again, occupancy was in the region of 50%.
I just missed the first round of food orders, but had a cider in my hand within ten minutes. The salmon fishcake was ordered just after York, and served quickly. Perfectly nice, although the bed of lettuce was starting to succumb to the heat.
I could have taken two more alcoholic drinks (I have a limited appetite for booze), and after Grantham there was a concerted effort by the host to empty the trolley of remaining food, so I took some cheese sandwiches and crisps, to go with the cake from earlier. Plenty of hot drink runs, of course.
As an aside, has anyone used the Kings Cross - Newark 'shorts' in First Class? I imagine they are lightly loaded, but appear to offer the full First Class complimentary offer from Kings Cross. Probably a pleasant way to spend a couple of hours?
Up on the 08.30 Kings Cross to Newcastle, all the way. Occupancy in First was about 50% as far as York, where many - including a rather loud group of four guys opposite me - departed for the races.
Toast (one, rather small slice) was served around Stevenage, with the plate whisked away shortly thereafter. The cooked breakfast did not arrive until just after Peterborough, but was well presented, although I'm not sure the cheese flan really works as a component - I would prefer a portion of baked beans. (That said, I spill more food than my toddler nephews, and was wearing a crisp white work shirt, so maybe the lack of beans was a blessing.)
There were a few hot drink runs, but service ceased entirely just south of York other than for those joining at York.
A family group behind me, and a single guy in front of me, seemed to be told they would only get toast and pastries unless they paid a £5 upgrade at the Cafe Bar. This surprised the family, but the other guy appeared to anticipate it. What was that all about? Priv ticket holders, perhaps?
I couldn't fault the staff, but really the portions of butter and preserves they hand out require two slices of toast to avoid wastage.
After business in County Durham, I was dropped back at Darlington for the 16.57 (ex-Newcastle) to London. Again, occupancy was in the region of 50%.
I just missed the first round of food orders, but had a cider in my hand within ten minutes. The salmon fishcake was ordered just after York, and served quickly. Perfectly nice, although the bed of lettuce was starting to succumb to the heat.
I could have taken two more alcoholic drinks (I have a limited appetite for booze), and after Grantham there was a concerted effort by the host to empty the trolley of remaining food, so I took some cheese sandwiches and crisps, to go with the cake from earlier. Plenty of hot drink runs, of course.
As an aside, has anyone used the Kings Cross - Newark 'shorts' in First Class? I imagine they are lightly loaded, but appear to offer the full First Class complimentary offer from Kings Cross. Probably a pleasant way to spend a couple of hours?
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
The £5 food offer is for staff card holders - a decent deal generally. EMT do it for those trains with full breakfast.
Take own food on WCML(VT) as they do not do it !
Take own food on WCML(VT) as they do not do it !
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I was on it on the 13th, despite being full (due to several cancellations after a fatality at Cramlington) there were three drinks runs and both the all-day option and sandwiches. The crew were very good, being very stingy until they knew everyone had got something- the train was much busier than usual- and then were as free as anyone wanted after York (I think they ordered more).
When I've caught it before it tends to be much quieter. There were probably only about 25 reservations in the whole of the three carriages.
So the 0730 this morning was "Mid morning" offering due to "Not enough of us".
There were 36 people in first class between Edinburgh and Newcastle and three staff!
Apparently because the trains are so busy northbound due to the festival nobody wants to work overtime.
There were 36 people in first class between Edinburgh and Newcastle and three staff!
Apparently because the trains are so busy northbound due to the festival nobody wants to work overtime.
Blindtraveler
Established Member
That sounds like a dubious collection of vague wibbly excuses to me. 36 too few for full breaky?
They must have meant not enough staff to offer the full breakfast surely?
Quakkerillo
Member
- Joined
- 23 Jan 2015
- Messages
- 553
Doing food is often not decided shortly before/after departure, as that would mean the train is already stocked, and food won't stay good forever.
Probably they're having to do with a few less staff to prepare food, and that service sees a lighter load than other trains. Therefor, they may have decided to not schedule food staff on this service, but place them on other trains.
When eventually more people than expected turn up, then it's bad luck for both the TOC and the passengers.
Definitely not enough staff, just realised how I wrote it there.
When enquiring that was the answer another passenger was given.
This service is usually much busier tbh as its one of the quicker services, however the planned (and cancelled) tube strike probably played a part in it being quieter. People will have changed their plans and not changed them back. It was fairly lightly loaded after Newcastle and York as well. Never more than 50% which is strange.
This services switches to mid morning after Newcastle. I would have thought though that three people could have rustled up breakfast for 36 and not all of them would have taken a full grill!
Slightly off topic but I see the VWC website has had a bit of an update - all the tabs along the top of the screen are the same as VTEC and there is a big section on first class food.
When enquiring that was the answer another passenger was given.
This service is usually much busier tbh as its one of the quicker services, however the planned (and cancelled) tube strike probably played a part in it being quieter. People will have changed their plans and not changed them back. It was fairly lightly loaded after Newcastle and York as well. Never more than 50% which is strange.
This services switches to mid morning after Newcastle. I would have thought though that three people could have rustled up breakfast for 36 and not all of them would have taken a full grill!
Slightly off topic but I see the VWC website has had a bit of an update - all the tabs along the top of the screen are the same as VTEC and there is a big section on first class food.
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