London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[Bungle73]

Another thing is that VT has had a lot longer to become "the norm" even though from what I understand they dropped similar facilities that EC did soon after privatisation.

Wasn't there a change to the VT 1st service at the end of 2008 when the hot meals were scaled right back to a few hours a day and it became sarnies or bust for other hours? Or am I imagining it...

Hot meals are only before 10:00am and (on Pendolinos) between 17:00 to 19:00 Monday to Friday. At other times (Mon-Fri) all you get is sandwiches, or an "alternative snack", whatever that means.

At least on EC you can get a hot meal during the day.

 

[philjo]

There are some lunchtime hot meals on the Glasgow trains (but not all).
I had a nice chicken risotto last year on the 13:40 from Glasgow - I think this was available to passengers boarding at Glasgow or Carlisle.

 

[telstarbox]

You've been lucky then! If your experience could be replicated consistently then I am sure this thread would have died out 11 months ago. The issues have been
- Consistency: A 100% dependable service. Zero point otherwise
- 70min rule (southbound PBO - KGX). A stale croissant does not constitute breakfast, nor a biscuit as lunch.
- Evening dinner on southbound service
- Adequate portions: Now seems addressed but has taken 12 months. I would consider two quarters of a sandwich over a 4 hour journey as being totally inadequate.

I have travelled EC on several occasions, upgrading to 1st based on the complimentary offering being advertised but have learnt the hard way not to use this as a reason for upgrading. I would otherwise.

Still important to keep a sense of perspective though - there are kids in Africa who don't have food, or trains, let alone free food on trains!

 

[Mainliner]

Greenback has hit my main gripe on the head. The service is patchy. If East Coast want to run their "First Class" service as a frillier version of Standard, then fine. I salute their strategic decision! But when they promise everything ("25 reasons to go First Class") and deliver little or, occasionally nothing - when you have to get on the train not knowing whether you will be fed or watered after walking past some nice fayre in M&S on the concourse; it's ****ing irritating.

I'm simply not prepared to take the chance.

I regularly travel on the 2000 KGX-NCL and eat my evening meal on the train. So I travel in the std quiet coach and buy something hot at KGX.

 

[ainsworth74]

Wasn't there a change to the VT 1st service at the end of 2008 when the hot meals were scaled right back to a few hours a day and it became sarnies or bust for other hours?

That is pretty much correct. I have a feeling that the times of operation haven't changed but the variety and size of meals was decreased (I seem to recall Virgin used to do Curry Fridays or something similar). There is a menu floating around from the pre-2008 Pendolino service but I can't find it for the life of me.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

(I seem to recall Virgin used to do Curry Fridays or something similar). There is a menu floating around from the pre-2008 Pendolino service but I can't find it for the life of me.

They were only available on 'Primo' trains, scrapped in December 2008; they were the headline trains each day, about 21 in total. Mornings haven't changed, but evening trains had a full meal service at-seat, including Curry Wednesday once a month and Fish and Chips every Friday IIRC. I never sampled them but in comparison to the current evening offerings I suspect they were a lot bigger (and better!). I too have a box of old VT First Class leaflets (including the Primo menus) but I would need to work my way through about 50 other boxes to reach them!

 

[JB1601]

Hot meals are only before 10:00am and (on Pendolinos) between 17:00 to 19:00 Monday to Friday. At other times (Mon-Fri) all you get is sandwiches, or an "alternative snack", whatever that means.

At least on EC you can get a hot meal during the day.

Oh yes I'm aware - what I meant by that (didn't phrase it greatly) was that the Virgin service, which seems to be held in high esteem, has itself been scaled back in recent years. And as you point out, there are times (daytime/evening/weekends) when EC is actually a better offering than VT.

Obviously part of the problem with EC is the consistence and perceived stinginess, but thought it was worth mentioning.

 

[calc7]

Oh yes I'm aware - what I meant by that (didn't phrase it greatly) was that the Virgin service, which seems to be held in high esteem, has itself been scaled back in recent years. And as you point out, there are times (daytime/evening/weekends) when EC is actually a better offering than VT.

Obviously part of the problem with EC is the consistence and perceived stinginess, but thought it was worth mentioning.

I am in total agreement with you. But you hit your nail on the head with your last two points: Virgin's service is predictable and generally more generous. At least I know what I'm going to get.

 

[ainsworth74]

They were only available on 'Primo' trains, scrapped in December 2008; they were the headline trains each day, about 21 in total. Mornings haven't changed, but evening trains had a full meal service at-seat, including Curry Wednesday once a month and Fish and Chips every Friday IIRC. I never sampled them but in comparison to the current evening offerings I suspect they were a lot bigger (and better!). I too have a box of old VT First Class leaflets (including the Primo menus) but I would need to work my way through about 50 other boxes to reach them!

Thanks for that, I knew it was something along those lines but couldn't remember what exactly for the life of me!

If you ever get round to digging them out do share

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I'm beginning to sense a change has taken place.

The apalling and inexcusable lack of consistency (as in reliability of service, not of food texture!) and the undernourishing portions seem to be much less evident these last few weeks. I've also seen some new staff, and 3 times now seen the remainder of the opened wine bottles being distributed to willing passengers towards the end of a journey.

I'm struggling to imagine that these have all been 'lucky' experiences - if they were, I've not experienced a 'run of luck' like it.

All very welcome and re-assuring (though I've still been snacking before travel and usually again afterwards through lack of confidence).

It's going to take time to impact on passenger numbers, though. I counted 3 others in my coach leaving Kings Cross in the peak this evening, though more boarded later reaching a crammed coach of 6 by Newcastle. As continued Special Offers may increase numbers, they erode the high-fare-paying customer base and generate lousy profits. Only a sustained and reliable service will ensure regular high-price travellers.

 

[Bungle73]

That's good to hear, especially since I'm due to make use of their services in a few weeks, and next month. Although I (mostly) never had any problems with the service when I've travelled before.

 

[Aberdonian]

I travelled from Grantham to Aberdeen yesterday, 6.5 hrs. arriving 21.15. The trains were clean and punctual and the staff were fine as I've always found.
The food was another story!
There was one 'choice' of hot food available on the Grantham to Newcastle leg, baked potatoes.
Coming North from Newcastle hot food was available on leaving Newcastle but reassured that the train would be restocked at Edinburgh I decided to wait until the Edinburgh to Aberdeen leg to eat.
An embarrassed staff member announced that the Edinburgh delivery had not materialised and all that was left was baked potatoes. This announcement was quickly qualified to indicate that it was just the potatoes.....the filling was finished.
This meant that I had a 4.5 hour run from Newcastle to Aberdeen with no hot food and there were a number of people who made it known that they had done London to Aberdeen, 7.5 hours with no hot food.
I am also interested in the extent of the offering. I have no knowledge of dinner being served on these northerly routes. The best that you can expect is the hot snack type food available elsewhere during the day. I can only dream about a cheese platter............... with or without cheese.
My ticket was not cheap either.

 

[Butts]

I travelled from Grantham to Aberdeen yesterday, 6.5 hrs. arriving 21.15. The trains were clean and punctual and the staff were fine as I've always found.
The food was another story!
There was one 'choice' of hot food available on the Grantham to Newcastle leg, baked potatoes.
Coming North from Newcastle hot food was available on leaving Newcastle but reassured that the train would be restocked at Edinburgh I decided to wait until the Edinburgh to Aberdeen leg to eat.
An embarrassed staff member announced that the Edinburgh delivery had not materialised and all that was left was baked potatoes. This announcement was quickly qualified to indicate that it was just the potatoes.....the filling was finished.
This meant that I had a 4.5 hour run from Newcastle to Aberdeen with no hot food and there were a number of people who made it known that they had done London to Aberdeen, 7.5 hours with no hot food.
I am also interested in the extent of the offering. I have no knowledge of dinner being served on these northerly routes. The best that you can expect is the hot snack type food available elsewhere during the day. I can only dream about a cheese platter............... with or without cheese.
My ticket was not cheap either.

In these circumstances wouldn't it be nice if they had the imagination to offer you something from the Cafe Bar as a substitute

 

[ainsworth74]

In these circumstances wouldn't it be nice if they had the imagination to offer you something from the Cafe Bar as a substitute

Well quite! I did once travel on a EC service (that originated from Newcastle) from Darlington that had run out of hot food (this was back the horror days of beetroot risotto) and the CSA instead apologetically offered me a panini from the Cafe Bar instead. Which I was personally quite pleased with as I hadn't really fancied the risotto anyway! But certainly I think that should be the standard plan B on EC's part if the advertised hot isn't available then they should (if available) offer something from the Cafe Bar instead.

One thing I'm detecting is that it seems to me that the way the offer is designed and delivered seems to indicate that it's targeted at those travelling between London - Leeds/Newcastle and not at those travelling onto Edinburgh/Aberdeen/Inverness nor at those travelling between Newcastle and Edinburgh/Aberdeen/Inverness.

 

[Aberdonian]

One thing I'm detecting is that it seems to me that the way the offer is designed and delivered seems to indicate that it's targeted at those travelling between London - Leeds/Newcastle and not at those travelling onto Edinburgh/Aberdeen/Inverness nor at those travelling between Newcastle and Edinburgh/Aberdeen/Inverness.[/QUOTE]

This is my fear but I was wary of sounding parochial.

 

[paul1609]

One thing I'm detecting is that it seems to me that the way the offer is designed and delivered seems to indicate that it's targeted at those travelling between London - Leeds/Newcastle and not at those travelling onto Edinburgh/Aberdeen/Inverness nor at those travelling between Newcastle and Edinburgh/Aberdeen/Inverness.

That doesnt surprise me, London Doncaster is where the profit is on the East Coast, break even maybe around Newcastle, Losing money beyond there.

 

[Butts]

That doesnt surprise me, London Doncaster is where the profit is on the East Coast, break even maybe around Newcastle, Losing money beyond there.

Actually you may have a point there, whenever I get on at Newcastle there seems to be loads of space in First Class particularly on the Aberdeen bound Services.

Loading coming down is not that heavy until Newcastle (if at all) from Aberdeen and or Edinburgh
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

One thing I'm detecting is that it seems to me that the way the offer is designed and delivered seems to indicate that it's targeted at those travelling between London - Leeds/Newcastle and not at those travelling onto Edinburgh/Aberdeen/Inverness nor at those travelling between Newcastle and Edinburgh/Aberdeen/Inverness.

This is my fear but I was wary of sounding parochial.[/QUOTE]

If your coming down from Aberdeen or Inverness - Fly - you'll be in central London before the train has got to Edinburgh

 

[Aberdonian]

I'm surprised by the comments/info on loadings. My experience is the opposite. I've found the loadings out of and into Aberdeen to be heavy. Yesterday the loadings became heavier on each of my three legs from Grantham to Newark, Newark to Newcastle and then Newcastle to Aberdeen.
Leaving Newcastle the first class and I think the whole train was packed out.
I actually wondered if they didnt need to promote the northern routes with food offerings etc because the demand was high any way.
AS for the flight alternative: its not really viable for journeys less than Aberdeen to Newcastle and even for the longer journeys the times and ticket costs on the rail remain competitive. There's not the cheap flights from Aberdeen that there used to be..................and thats without going into the environmental arguements for rail.

 

[All Line Rover]

Another thing is that VT has had a lot longer to become "the norm" even though from what I understand they dropped similar facilities that EC did soon after privatisation.

Wasn't there a change to the VT 1st service at the end of 2008 when the hot meals were scaled right back to a few hours a day and it became sarnies or bust for other hours? Or am I imagining it...

Prior to VHF, Virgin's evening meal service was served between 3pm and 7pm on selected "Primo" services. Whilst it is true that the meal may have been more substantial, First Class tickets on these services were probably very expensive (since there were only a few of them). There were no evening meals on southbound services, and the 15:40 from London Euston to Wolverhampton was the only "evening" meal service on the EBW route! So I think it's true to say that the current service is better overall.

 

[calc7]

That doesnt surprise me, London Doncaster is where the profit is on the East Coast, break even maybe around Newcastle, Losing money beyond there.

Also the fact that both Advance 1sts and FOS are not linear in pricing over distance. So an Advance 1st might be £90 to NCL and £95 to EDB. Much the same for FOR (for instance, not much more to go to Glasgow than Manchester on the West Coast route). As a result, there is diminishing returns if the company offers an equivalent level of service the whole way through, which probably goes a long way to explaining why KGX-YRK passengers will (in theory !) get a meal and a drink, KGX-NCL a meal and two drinks and KGX-EDB a meal and three drinks.

**** that ****.

 

[YorkshireRider]

That doesnt surprise me, London Doncaster is where the profit is on the East Coast, break even maybe around Newcastle, Losing money beyond there.

Is this a guess or have you seen some figures to back it up? Yes, Inverness and Aberdeen when taking staffing costs into consideration probably dont make a profit but Edinburgh??

 

[Failed Unit]

Is this a guess or have you seen some figures to back it up? Yes, Inverness and Aberdeen when taking staffing costs into consideration probably dont make a profit but Edinburgh??

I find that one odd. If it was not profitable it would have the same level of service as the WCML, not 3 trains per hour (combined) to York in most hours.

 

[calc7]

Add to that the fact there's only 3 ABD trains per day means the demand will gravitate to them.

 

[Blindtraveler]

theres also what could be called local traffic from ABD TO/FROM EDB. Scotrails alternative is poor in comparison ton to an HST And a similar smaller demand exists from INV.

 

[paul1609]

Is this a guess or have you seen some figures to back it up? Yes, Inverness and Aberdeen when taking staffing costs into consideration probably dont make a profit but Edinburgh??

Work out the average fare per mile paid over the London to Doncaster route and compare it to the further North sections. On a per train basis assume that the infrastructure costs are the same on each section (they will actually be lower on the southern section because there are more trains to spread the cost).
The only reason that there is such a high frequency service north of is because its specified by the Govt. for social and political reasons.
East Coast (capitalist *******) plc a future TOC free of government distortions to the market certainly wouldn't be running any trains north of Edinburgh and probably only a couple of through trains per day between London and Scotland.

 

[silverfoxcc]

My wife is travelling on the 12.00 Kx-Stirling early May. What sort of service/meals can she expect?

 

[ainsworth74]

Weekday or weekend?

 

[Bridge189]

That doesnt surprise me, London Doncaster is where the profit is on the East Coast, break even maybe around Newcastle, Losing money beyond there.

Not true. Newcastle is apparently ECs top selling station behind KX. Closely followed by Leeds.

 

[MarkyMarkD]

Thus far finding the catering at least equal to expectations travelling Peterborough - Edinburgh.

Two passes of food trolley before Newcastle, and many offers of hot and cold drinks from a very friendly crew.

Quite impressed, to be honest, although hot food and alcohol would have been even nicer!

 

[Failed Unit]

The only reason that there is such a high frequency service north of is because its specified by the Govt. for social and political reasons.
East Coast (capitalist *******) plc a future TOC free of government distortions to the market certainly wouldn't be running any trains north of Edinburgh and probably only a couple of through trains per day between London and Scotland.

Couldn't you argue that about most services? If you had capitalist most of the rail network would be shut by now.

I think that London - Edinburgh would still be hourly, the services are well loaded. Others would terminate at Newcastle including XC which mainly cart around fresh air.