London Terminals from Huntingdon, can I proceed to Blackfriars

[pethadine82]

I need to go to Blackfriars on New years eve at 10pm ish.
I hold the outward portion of a Huntingdon to London Terminals ticket.
Can I walk to St Pancras and take the thameslink to Black friars and not pay a penny more, or will I have to use my oyster PAYG?

Thanks

Also on another note the "last late" train that departs london in the early hours of new years day is the 02:36 to Peterborough and there are no trains up north until 07.23.

Last year there was a train an hour earlier, but its a shame that FCC wont run a train at 4.23AM considering how packed central London will be, it takes ages to get anywhere and a lot of people will miss the 02.36 train.

 

[sonic2009]

AFAIK London Terminals tickets are not valid to Blackfriars from north of St Pancras

If your planning to leave Huntingdon at 10pm NYE by the time you get to London, i.think travel will be free on the Underground.

That's if they still offer the free travel after 0000.

 

[andrewkeith5]

As far as I know, once you leave the train at a London Terminal, that is the extent of the validity of your ticket, so this wont be possible and you'll have to buy a travelcard or use your Oyster.

Regardless of that, Farringdon is not considered a London Terminal, and so London Terminals tickets are only valid as far as the station before Farringdon in the direction of travel. As you would be passing through Farringdon to get to Blackfriars, the ticket wouldn't be valid.

I'm afraid I cant help with the second part of your query! Have a great New Years though

 

[Eagle]

As far as I know, once you leave the train at a London Terminal, that is the extent of the validity of your ticket...

Not actually true. There are some places where you can continue onwards; for instance arriving into Waterloo you can continue to any of Waterloo East, Charing Cross, London Bridge, Cannon Street and Blackfriars (by National Rail only).

It's only through Thameslink where London Terminals tickets forbid onward travel to another terminal.

 

[andrewkeith5]

Not actually true. There are some places where you can continue onwards; for instance arriving into Waterloo you can continue to any of Waterloo East, Charing Cross, London Bridge, Cannon Street and Blackfriars (by National Rail only).

It's only through Thameslink where London Terminals tickets forbid onward travel to another terminal.

Wow. You learn something every day, eh! Is there a list of such options anywhere?

 

[bb21]

Wow. You learn something every day, eh! Is there a list of such options anywhere?

Generally speaking coming from the south, you are permitted on a London Terminals ticket to go to any of Cannon Street, London Bridge, Charing Cross, Waterloo East, Waterloo, Victoria and Vauxhall on National Rail only. In addition, as you have noted, you are permitted to travel along Thameslink core but not to or crossing Farringdon, so as far as City Thameslink.

Coming from the north, unfortunately you cannot travel any further on Thameslink than St Pancras unless you hold a ticket to London Thameslink, in which case you can travel as far as Elephant & Castle. You can also travel to Moorgate from King's Cross on LU with certain tickets.

 

[kieron]

Would an excess to a Huntingdon-Blackfriars ticket (route "not Underground") be appropriate here? It's £2 more for a return (or £1 if you only change the outward part), so is better value than Oyster.

 

[bb21]

I am unable to check, however if such a fare exists then yes, an excess would be appropriate. This can be bought from a manned ticket office prior to boarding, but may not be available once onboard should facilities to pay exist at the origin station.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Would an excess to a Huntingdon-Blackfriars ticket (route "not Underground") be appropriate here? It's £2 more for a return (or £1 if you only change the outward part), so is better value than Oyster.

A clerk should always excess both parts of the ticket for an 'over-riding' (over-distance) excess, so it should always be the full difference. It should also be done before boarding a train where possible.

 

[34D]

I need to go to Blackfriars on New years eve at 10pm ish.
I hold the outward portion of a Huntingdon to London Terminals ticket.
Can I walk to St Pancras and take the thameslink to Black friars and not pay a penny more, or will I have to use my oyster PAYG?

Thanks

Also on another note the "last late" train that departs london in the early hours of new years day is the 02:36 to Peterborough and there are no trains up north until 07.23.

Last year there was a train an hour earlier, but its a shame that FCC wont run a train at 4.23AM considering how packed central London will be, it takes ages to get anywhere and a lot of people will miss the 02.36 train.

As stated, your ticket is NOT valid to Blackfriars, however it IS valid on the tube to Moorgate, from which Blackfriars is a reasonable walk.

 

[Romilly]

Picking up the suggestion of travelling to Moorgate, tomorrow evening your ticket would be valid to change at Finsbury Park and continue on a First Capital Connect service to Moorgate:

Huntingdon 2001 (or 2034)
Finsbury Pk 2053 (or 2142)

Finsbury PK 2104 (or 2149)
Moorgate 2118 (or 2203)

The 2203 arrival into Moorgate appears to be the last FCC train of the day into Moorgate. And, incidentally, the East Coast website's Journey Planner does not appear to recognise Moorgate as a station, but will include journeys to Moorgate when asked for journeys to "London" or "London (All)" (although it may be necessary to specify "via" Highbury & Islington).

 

[kieron]

A clerk should always excess both parts of the ticket for an 'over-riding' (over-distance) excess, so it should always be the full difference. It should also be done before boarding a train where possible.

I see. I wasn't sure what it counted as when you changed both the route and the destination of a ticket. It's only £2 extra, anyway.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I see. I wasn't sure what it counted as when you changed both the route and the destination of a ticket. It's only £2 extra, anyway.

'Change of route' refers to the physical route being taken, rather than the route noted on the ticket. In this case it is only the destination being changed and the journey would go via the original destination ('London Terminals') so it is a simple 'over-riding' (over-distance) excess.

 

[Mojo]

The 2203 arrival into Moorgate appears to be the last FCC train of the day into Moorgate. And, incidentally, the East Coast website's Journey Planner does not appear to recognise Moorgate as a station, but will include journeys to Moorgate when asked for journeys to "London" or "London (All)" (although it may be necessary to specify "via" Highbury & Islington).

Bear in mind however that even once the FCC into Moorgate line stops running, a ticket that has validity between Finsbury Park and Kings + is also valid on the Underground between Kings + St Pancras and Old St/Moorgate.

 

[craigwilson]

As far as I know, once you leave the train at a London Terminal, that is the extent of the validity of your ticket, so this wont be possible and you'll have to buy a travelcard or use your Oyster.

Not actually true. There are some places where you can continue onwards; for instance arriving into Waterloo you can continue to any of Waterloo East, Charing Cross, London Bridge, Cannon Street and Blackfriars (by National Rail only).

It's only through Thameslink where London Terminals tickets forbid onward travel to another terminal.

Wow. You learn something every day, eh! Is there a list of such options anywhere?

This is because all the above in Eagle's quote are London Terminals. So, in continuing from London Bridge to Cannon Street, or from London Bridge to Waterloo East or Charing Cross, you are still within "London Terminals". It's only when you leave London Terminals you exceed the validity of your ticket.

This is where the Thameslink issue arises. Arriving from the north (Huntingdon in your case), first of all you hit St Pancras (a London Terminal). However to get to the other London Terminals on the line of route, you have to pass through Farringdon, which is not a London Terminal.

Hence it is not valid to travel onwards to them, because you leave London Terminals - you'd be exceeding the validity of your ticket.

On a related topic, do they plan to make Salford Central a member of "Manchester Stations" once the Ordsall Chord is complete? If not, the same confusion could theoretically happen.

 

[kieron]

On a related topic, do they plan to make Salford Central a member of "Manchester Stations" once the Ordsall Chord is complete? If not, the same confusion could theoretically happen.

London has a few special rules. Some are more generous than the normal ones, and others (such as the rule that a ticket to London Terminals is only valid to some of them) are less generous. Any ticket to "Manchester Stations" or "Manchester CTLZ" is valid to any of the group stations by a valid route, wherever you pass through en route.

 

[calc7]

Any ticket to "Manchester Stations" or "Manchester CTLZ" is valid to any of the group stations by a valid route, wherever you pass through en route.

With the usual caveat about operator-only restrictions, e.g. a Virgin Trains Only ticket cannot be used beyond Piccadilly.

 

[TUC]

Coming from the north, unfortunately you cannot travel any further on Thameslink than St Pancras unless you hold a ticket to London Thameslink, in which case you can travel as far as Elephant & Castle. You can also travel to Moorgate from King's Cross on LU with certain tickets.

I've searched for London Thameslink tickets from a number of departure points. However, although 'London Thameslink' comes up as a destination, in practice none of the routes I have tried come up with a fare. Is London Thameslink only available as a destination on tickets from certain stations?

 

[maniacmartin]

Correct. I believe it's only available from some stations north of St Pancras which have a direct train calling at the Thameslink core

 

[Hadders]

I believe season tickets to London Thameslink are available from stations on the MML as far north as Nottingham and Derby.

Non-season tickets to London Thameslink can only be purchased from stations as far north as Bedford.

 

[PermitToTravel]

London has a few special rules. Some are more generous than the normal ones, and others (such as the rule that a ticket to London Terminals is only valid to some of them) are less generous. Any ticket to "Manchester Stations" or "Manchester CTLZ" is valid to any of the group stations by a valid route, wherever you pass through en route.

If using the shortest route rule, are you allowed to choose which group station to take the shortest route to?

 

[bb21]

If using the shortest route rule, are you allowed to choose which group station to take the shortest route to?

 

[33011]

I know this is not about the first question but as I was looking through this thread I was wondering how many London Terminals someone could get to from Lymington Town on a valid ticket without using the Tube. According to Journey planner you can get to Waterloo, Victoria, London Bridge ,Charing Cross, Paddington via Reading and also Euston via Clapham and Kensington Olympia these are only the ones I have checked so.far. These are also valid via Salisbury, Portsmouth, Brighton and Reading as well as the Direct route to Waterloo via Brockenhurst.

 

[craigwilson]

If using the shortest route rule, are you allowed to choose which group station to take the shortest route to?

As the shortest route will blatantly be via the chord and Salford Central once the chord is completed, it will be a moot point after that.

As for now though, as bb21 says, can of worms...

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Correct. I believe it's only available from some stations north of St Pancras which have a direct train calling at the Thameslink core

North of Kentish Town.

 

[Eagle]

I know this is not about the first question but as I was looking through this thread I was wondering how many London Terminals someone could get to from Lymington Town on a valid ticket without using the Tube. According to Journey planner you can get to Waterloo, Victoria, London Bridge ,Charing Cross, Paddington via Reading and also Euston via Clapham and Kensington Olympia these are only the ones I have checked so.far. These are also valid via Salisbury, Portsmouth, Brighton and Reading as well as the Direct route to Waterloo via Brockenhurst.

You can also get to Blackfriars and Cannon Street (from London Bridge).

 

[swt_passenger]

You can also get to Blackfriars and Cannon Street (from London Bridge).

[from Lymington] ...Whereas I wouldn't be too sure about Euston at all... It isn't in the ATOC spreadsheet.

 

[bb21]

You cannot go into Euston from Lymington.

The only way it can possibly be permitted is if the generic name of "London" on map LP means Euston. LP shows a route between Clapham Junction and "London" passing no other routeing point, so "London" cannot possibly mean Euston as you will need to pass Willesden Junction en route, which is a routeing point.

 

[33011]

You cannot go into Euston from Lymington.

The only way it can possibly be permitted is if the generic name of "London" on map LP means Euston. LP shows a route between Clapham Junction and "London" passing no other routeing point, so "London" cannot possibly mean Euston as you will need to pass Willesden Junction en route, which is a routeing point.

Like i said I was only going by what Journey Planner said. In my experience Journey planner is not always correct.

 

[bb21]

Like i said I was only going by what Journey Planner said. In my experience Journey planner is not always correct.

Which journey planner did you use? NRE clearly states that you need two tickets.