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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

stevenedin

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I would imagine that Lothian Buses are currently working on a review of the network, to be implemented when the tram extension opens.

Since they don't know the date for the opening yet, they can't announce any details.
21st June apparently

An opening date for the Edinburgh tram network extension from Leith to Newhaven has been confirmed.

It has been revealed that the £207million extension will now be operational by June 21. Speaking at the Edinburgh Tourism Action Group, George Lowder, chief executive of Transport for Edinburgh, said the completion date would still count as "spring 2023."


Mr Lowder also added that the next phase of the Edinburgh tram network would add a Granton link due to it being the easiest to achieve. The link between Haymarket in the west of the city and Granton was initially held back due to a lack of funding.
Excuse the adverts, that website is terrible for them and they take up the articles but I also posted the link.

Ads now edited out - Mod
 
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R

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I suspect the next service change will be somewhere from March - May, I presume that the Trams Service Change (And Leith Services) will only change in its on separate change, and also, the timetables are already sorted, let's not forget about that!
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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I would imagine that Lothian Buses are currently working on a review of the network, to be implemented when the tram extension opens.

Since they don't know the date for the opening yet, they can't announce any details.
While I would expect a service change at roughly the same time as the Tram extension opens. I wouldn’t expect many changes as a direct result of it opening. As has been said previously the Leith services have largely already been adjusted for this, such as the 10 now serving McDonald Road, the 34 now serving Leith Links and Bernard Street, and the scale back of the 22 to the City Centre with the 16 revised to serve Leith Street in its place.

I would more expect frequency changes and perhaps a few route changes that have nothing to do with the trams. Essentially it would be done just to coincide with the extension opening, while having very little to do with it.
 

buslad1988

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While I would expect a service change at roughly the same time as the Tram extension opens. I wouldn’t expect many changes as a direct result of it opening. As has been said previously the Leith services have largely already been adjusted for this, such as the 10 now serving McDonald Road, the 34 now serving Leith Links and Bernard Street, and the scale back of the 22 to the City Centre with the 16 revised to serve Leith Street in its place.

I would more expect frequency changes and perhaps a few route changes that have nothing to do with the trams. Essentially it would be done just to coincide with the extension opening, while having very little to do with it.
Maybe the Eclipses are being repainted back into Lothian City livery as there may be adjustments with some revised/new tram feeder services?

Also not sure if it’s been reported but I saw that Evora 94 has had its rear display changed to show the route number only. The area where the destination usually shows has been masked off.
 

ScotRail158725

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Also not sure if it’s been reported but I saw that Evora 94 has had its rear display changed to show the route number only. The area where the destination usually shows has been masked off.
74 has the same as well, its not a permanent change its just the laminate on the glass hasn’t been done properly, it’s something that will probably be fixed soon.
 
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Sussexscot

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Go on, I'll bite...:lol:
Pay and conditions is a very emotive subject at our garage.
You could argue the city drivers should be on less as they're not going anywhere sitting in traffic all day. Obviously that's a completely ridiculous suggestion and a bus driver should be paid the same whether the bus is red or green, considering we're all supposed to be part of the "Lothian family."
During my working life, I have driven buses in both the city and country environments. Both have to negotiate narrow roads, often coupled with bad parking, and have places where you can get up a bit of speed though in the city this is usually where the limit is 40mph or lower whereas in the country 60mph is most common in these "quiet" spots. Spotting the odd intending passenger early enough in the middle of nowhere when doing 45mph plus is a skill you have to learn as soon as you get behind the wheel.

The big difference is at night. City driving is very rarely down unlit roads whereas country driving spends much of the time on unlit, busy roads so, again, spotting intending passengers' torches from oncoming headlights is not always easy. Dark narrow country lanes can be tricky. All in all, driving in both city and country is, overall, little different, particularly as country driving spend more time in the city, towns and villages than on the open road.

Pay will always be a big issue and may help explain why Livingston has lost as many drivers as it has. There is major competition for drivers from the various Logistics companies in the area, offering better wages and hours. If Lothian made a big change to its pay rates, it may attract more drivers back to the bus industry and thus to be able to provide a service once more to West Lothian. I share the view that Lothian is a family as should have equal pay rates across the family.
 

CN04NRJ

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During my working life, I have driven buses in both the city and country environments. Both have to negotiate narrow roads, often coupled with bad parking, and have places where you can get up a bit of speed though in the city this is usually where the limit is 40mph or lower whereas in the country 60mph is most common in these "quiet" spots. Spotting the odd intending passenger early enough in the middle of nowhere when doing 45mph plus is a skill you have to learn as soon as you get behind the wheel.

The big difference is at night. City driving is very rarely down unlit roads whereas country driving spends much of the time on unlit, busy roads so, again, spotting intending passengers' torches from oncoming headlights is not always easy. Dark narrow country lanes can be tricky. All in all, driving in both city and country is, overall, little different, particularly as country driving spend more time in the city, towns and villages than on the open road.

Pay will always be a big issue and may help explain why Livingston has lost as many drivers as it has. There is major competition for drivers from the various Logistics companies in the area, offering better wages and hours. If Lothian made a big change to its pay rates, it may attract more drivers back to the bus industry and thus to be able to provide a service once more to West Lothian. I share the view that Lothian is a family as should have equal pay rates across the family.

If Country had the same conditions and pay i'd look into it in a heartbeat, it's about 5 minutes drive and well within walking distance for me. At the moment it's a no brainer to commute from Bathgate to Central just for the money.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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That’s now just one green and cream bus left in service at Lothian Country now as 1003 has swapped with freshly repainted 1046, meaning that its now just 1013 left at Livingston. 1003 I’d suggest will go into reserve, but may be repainted into madder and white. I thought it was about time for an update so below is where we now are.

1030-1032 remain at Seafield but at least one (and actually possibly all three) are ready to depart for repaint. Regarding the Eclipse2’s, 185 went away yesterday with both 1004 (madder and white) and 1046 (green and white) returning in its place, albeit separately. As reported earlier in the thread, 232 has departed for Ferrymill for a repaint into an as yet unknown livery. 178 (now completed) was swapped for 188 last week which remains at BusTec, however I’d expect 188 to be finished by now and swap for another bus fairly soon. 176-185 as reported previously are all expected to be going into madder and white, while 186-190 are being given a new coat of paint and a re-trim at the same time.

Therefore the repaint situation currently looks like this:

176 - At Seafield for repaint prep
177 - At Seafield for repaint prep
178 - Returned from repaint, At Seafield
179 - Returned from repaint, At Seafield
180 - At Seafield for repaint prep
181 - At Seafield for repaint prep
182 - At Seafield for repaint prep
183 - At Seafield for repaint prep
184 - At Seafield for repaint prep
185 - Away for repaint (Ferrymill)
186 - At Seafield for repaint prep
187 - At Seafield for repaint prep
188 - Away for repaint (BusTec)
189 - At Seafield for repaint prep
190 - Returned from repaint, At Seafield

232 - Away for repaint (Ferrymill)

1004 - Returned from repaint, At Seafield

1030 - At Seafield for repaint prep
1031 - At Seafield for repaint prep
1032 - At Seafield for repaint prep
1038 - Away for repaint (Ferrymill)
1046 - Returned to Livingston

@Bus9120UK reported elsewhere that 569 has gained a new Subway Delivers advert. 565 is now back in service in madder and white as well.

That should be everything for now.
 

overthewater

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I don't think Lothian buses will make any service changes to the Leith network until after the Festival ie September.
 

Scotrail314209

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Got a ride on the BZL demonstrator today. First impressions were it looks a bit strange on the outside, but the inside was really nice. Seats were comfortable and the bus was quiet.

My only gripe; if Lothian were to acquire more of them (is that on the table?) then they would need to be longer as the length of them isn’t suited for Edijburgh
 
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Got a ride on the BZL demonstrator today. First impressions were it looks a bit strange on the outside, but the inside was really nice. Seats were comfortable and the bus was quiet.

My only gripe; if Lothian were to acquire more of them (is that on the table?) then they would need to be longer as the length of them isn’t suited for Edijburgh
When I was on it, it was very powerful. I do quite like the looks outside, if the grey was white and black at the bottom then it would be much nicer along with some of the black accessing becoming madder. The Volvo front panel would also have to be replaced with a panel without Volvo on it.

The fact Lothian trialled it on the Service 23 is hideous, it did cope well when I was on a peak time Service 1 this time last week, both ways. I think that they would have to be a tad longer though, maybe 12-13m.
 

buslad1988

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The fact Lothian trialled it on the Service 23 is hideous, it did cope well when I was on a peak time Service 1 this time last week, both ways. I think that they would have to be a tad longer though, maybe 12-13m.
The only reason it was on the 23 (regardless of it being single or double deck) is because all alternative fuel demonstrators get used on that due to its hilly nature - there’s no point trialling it on a relatively flat route to make a substantial purchase and find they aren’t suitable.
 
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The only reason it was on the 23 (regardless of it being single or double deck) is because all alternative fuel demonstrators get used on that due to its hilly nature - there’s no point trialling it on a relatively flat route to make a substantial purchase and find they aren’t suitable.
Also, my impression is quite a lot of the 23 route is covered by others, it's reasonably frequent and passengers aren't typically going a long distance. Therefore the impact of breakdowns or delays if a test vehicle encounters problems may not be so severe.
 

GordonT

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Also, my impression is quite a lot of the 23 route is covered by others, it's reasonably frequent and passengers aren't typically going a long distance. Therefore the impact of breakdowns or delays if a test vehicle encounters problems may not be so severe.
Also it makes sense to have one specific route as the test route for demonstrators in order to compare and evaluate various key performance indicators between different vehicle types.
 

roadierway77

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23 Jun 2019
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Hi all, is there a site/document somewhere that lists the PVR for Lothian bus routes, similar to this website https://londonbuses.co.uk/menus/rl001-100.html ? If not, are there any tricks for calculating those numbers myself?
Calculating PVR isn't too complex but it it is quite time consuming as different times of day have different PVR - the way I calculate it is track how long a bus takes to complete a return journey, and count the number of departures in between - e.g. if a vehicle is departing from Riccarton eastbound on a 25, see how long it takes to come back to Riccarton to work another eastbound 25 service, and the number of departures from Riccarton in between those times is the PVR for that time of day.

You could always make a freedom of information request to Lothian and see if they'd supply you with that info, which would be far simpler and is more likely to be accurate.
 
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It looks like East Coast Buses repaints are starting up again with 20008 at Seafield Works at the repaint prep/vinyling area. That's something to look out for, if there are any updates, no doubt someone will post them here.
 

Bus9120UK

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It looks like East Coast Buses repaints are starting up again with 20008 at Seafield Works at the repaint prep/vinyling area. That's something to look out for, if there are any updates, no doubt someone will post them here.
It's better to wait and see.

1031 away this morning, 1003 and 1028 both have transferred to Seafield as well.
 

tattyseal

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Buses will return to Leith Walk as of tomorrow (16th February) as seen here
1676471088159.png

As the Trams to Newhaven project progresses, buses will be able to return to a fully reopened Leith Walk from 1000 hrs on Thursday 16th February.

affects services 7 10 11 14 16 25 49 N14 N16 N22
As the Trams to Newhaven project progresses, buses will be able to return to a fully reopened Leith Walk from 1000 hrs on Thursday 16th February.

Details of routes serving Leith Walk from this date are given below -

Service 10 - NO CHANGE - Between Elm Row and Great Junction Street, buses will continue to operate via McDonald Road, Broughton Road and Bonnington Road in both directions.

Service 11 - NO CHANGE - Between Elm Row and Newhaven Road, buses will continue to operate via Leith Walk and Pilrig Street in both directions.

Services 7 14 16 N14 N16 N22 - ROUTE CHANGES - Between Elm Row and Great Junction Street, buses will now operate via Leith Walk in both directions.

Services 25 49 - ROUTE CHANGES - Between Elm Row and Vanburgh Place, buses will now operate via Leith Walk and Duke Street in both directions.
 

stevenedin

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There of course are the fair few on twitter complaining that the 22 isn't returning now Leith Walk is reopening...
I can’t see it returning to be honest. They could possibly extend the 22 from Gyle Centre to Cammo or West Craigs once more new homes are built but I can’t see it going back to Leith.
 

Jordan Adam

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My only gripe; if Lothian were to acquire more of them (is that on the table?) then they would need to be longer as the length of them isn’t suited for Edijburgh
The demonstrator Lothian have is the shorter 10.8M 31 seater example, however the other single decker demonstrator is full size at 12.2M and seats 42. Additionally the single deck chassis is offered up to lengths of 13 metres so it would be possible to get examples with same/similar seat capacity to Lothians existing fleet of Evoras, although due to weight restrictions the number of standees would likely be lower. However as all lengths are mechanically the same it probably didn't matter (that much) to Lothian which one they had on demonstration so likely just took the 10.8M example since it it's available sooner.

Here's the other single deck Volvo BZL:
 

overthewater

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What would they like cut to free up drivers and vehicles?

Surly the speeded up services would free up drivers and buses.

However there is no point to the 22 going back to Leith, I dread to think what other cuts are coming..
 

Jordan Adam

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Surly the speeded up services would free up drivers and buses.

However there is no point to the 22 going back to Leith, I dread to think what other cuts are coming..
With the tram extension one has to question what point the 22 actually has going forward. Surely it's better to axe the route entirely and redistribute resources to where they can be better utilised?
 

Bus9120UK

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With the tram extension one has to question what point the 22 actually has going forward. Surely it's better to axe the route entirely and redistribute resources to where they can be better utilised?
It operates now with fair loads on each service.. the tram network does not cover for everything along the 22 and is not a suitable alternative to many customers. I'd argue if the 22 would be axed, this would've occurred a long time ago. The 1 & 2 would need improvements capacity wise i'd imagine if it did happen though.
 

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