Lumo (East Coast Trains) Class 803 Updates/Discussion

[gimmea50anyday]

Don't forget the bang from under the pantograph at the rear of the front carriage when the VCB opens and closes at neutral sections!

Strangely the VCB also pops on the rear carriage of an 802 even tho the front pan is in use although it isn't as loud

 

[Bald Rick]

Strangely the VCB also pops on the rear carriage of an 802 even tho the front pan is in use although it isn't as loud

Not strange at all - the APC (Auto Power Cut off) magnets located just before the neutral section will trigger opening of any VCB whether the pan is up or not.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Ah, that explains it

 

[Starmill]

I was on a 397 down from Edinburgh to Manchester on Sunday, the banging really alarmed some passengers (my fiance included). Is it as loud on the Hitachi units as well? Wasn't sure if it was a CAF unit living up to its name....

As others have said, the loud bang can be really very loud in the saloon on some train types. It's partly that it's so sudden too that it can often shock people. I've thought before that it's so loud that if it can't be mechanically or electronically moderated, that part of the train should probably have a sign saying that the noise is nothing to worry about if you do hear it.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

That will never catch on, far too sensible!!! XD

 

[800001]

Thought as much - haven't seen head nor hide of it!

Been seen outside at Aycliffe multiple times over last few weeks.

Was also a path in last night for mainline testing from Darlington that was cancelled.

 

[Mollman]

803005 out on test today according to RailCam:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K03486/2021-11-12/detailed

 

[fodphil]

803005 out on test today according to RailCam:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K03486/2021-11-12/detailed

Viewed at Darlington at 11am being dragged by 66768.
It then departed to Newton Aycliffe

 

[tornado]

Does anyone know what numbers are the table seats in LUMO? impossible to tell from the seat plan floating around.

 

[hexagon789]

Does anyone know what numbers are the table seats in LUMO? impossible to tell from the seat plan floating around.

As best I can make out:

Coach A: 21-28
Coaches B, C & D: 23, 24, 29 & 30 plus 63, 64, 69 & 70
Coach E: 25-32

 

[tornado]

Thanks. Was thinking might better for working on a laptop as the seat trays look a little tight.

I guess anyway no point thinking about tables at the moment, as you'll definitely be sharing with 3 others plus 50 more standing in the aisle!

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks. Was thinking might better for working on a laptop as the seat trays look a little tight.

I guess anyway no point thinking about tables at the moment, as you'll definitely be sharing with 3 others plus 50 more standing in the aisle!

You know the airline seat back tables have an extender specifically for laptops?

 

[Laketop]

I read a few articles stating that Lumo bookings are doing well. I haven't personally been on one of their services yet but it is an enticing sell should I need to travel to Scotland via train.

If it is the case that Lumo are doing well, what are the options for them expanding their current services in terms of train length? Is it possible at this stage to order more carriages or double up trains to add capacity?

 

[JonathanH]

If it is the case that Lumo are doing well, what are the options for them expanding their current services in terms of train length? Is it possible at this stage to order more carriages or double up trains to add capacity?

They are running two trains a day each way at the moment at a promotional fare. Let them first get to five trains a day, charging their proposed fare structure and then they can assess how well the operation is going.

It remains to be seen how fickle the travelling public is if LNER offer similar fares for some of their services.

A business case to change the formations on their services would not be easy to put together at this stage with only a month of experience.

 

[hexagon789]

I read a few articles stating that Lumo bookings are doing well. I haven't personally been on one of their services yet but it is an enticing sell should I need to travel to Scotland via train.

If it is the case that Lumo are doing well, what are the options for them expanding their current services in terms of train length? Is it possible at this stage to order more carriages or double up trains to add capacity?

Their carriage lettering makes provision for running double sets, and I believe they state they would potentially do this for particularly busy periods of required.

Though they only operate two services each way maximum at present, loadings may well even out/reduce on individual services when frequency is ramped up.

 

[supervc-10]

Lumo's cheap tickets show up in National Rail enquiries - I'd expect that anyone who is booking and is super price sensitive would just go for the cheapest ticket, whether it's Lumo or LNER. I doubt there would be any particular brand loyalty, although I can see there being a degree of it if someone has had a good experience with them, and the amount of brand awareness now about 'that new cheap blue train to Edinburgh'.

 

[Kite159]

Lumo's cheap tickets show up in National Rail enquiries - I'd expect that anyone who is booking and is super price sensitive would just go for the cheapest ticket, whether it's Lumo or LNER. I doubt there would be any particular brand loyalty, although I can see there being a degree of it if someone has had a good experience with them, and the amount of brand awareness now about 'that new cheap blue train to Edinburgh'.

And I reckon there will be a small number who will prefer to use Lumo due to the different seats, maybe even paying a little bit extra over LNER.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And I reckon there will be a small number who will prefer to use Lumo due to the different seats, maybe even paying a little bit extra over LNER.

I have not tried them yet, but if they are any good I would certainly pay extra not to have to sit in Fainsa's finest.

 

[takno]

And I reckon there will be a small number who will prefer to use Lumo due to the different seats, maybe even paying a little bit extra over LNER.

It looks like it's going to be a straight choice for me between Lumo and LNER first class. Looking forward to trying it out when it's a bit less busy with people bagging the York avoiders

 

[grangergranger]

Can't find the answer to this question but I know it's been raised somewhere on this forum.
But In a situation of OLE disruption, can a 803 couple with a 802 and provide traction power just like the 800s & 801s. (I've seen written on the forum somewhere that sometimes the 801s don't use their power pack when coupled with 800s on diesel).
And is it officially authorized or allowed???

 

[swt_passenger]

Can't find the answer to this question but I know it's been raised somewhere on this forum.
But In a situation of OLE disruption, can a 803 couple with a 802 and provide traction power just like the 800s & 801s. (I've seen written on the forum somewhere that sometimes the 801s don't use their power pack when coupled with 800s on diesel).
And is it officially authorized or allowed???

An 803 cannot provide traction power off the wires as it has no power pack.

 

[DanNCL]

Can't find the answer to this question but I know it's been raised somewhere on this forum.
But In a situation of OLE disruption, can a 803 couple with a 802 and provide traction power just like the 800s & 801s. (I've seen written on the forum somewhere that sometimes the 801s don't use their power pack when coupled with 800s on diesel).
And is it officially authorized or allowed???

An 803 cannot provide traction power off the wires as it has no power pack.

803s are compatible with the rest of the 80x family, but won’t provide any traction power away from the wires.

As far as authorisation goes, it’s been done for the 802s, but not for the 800s and 801s. The official line from Hitachi/Agility is that the 800s and 801s aren’t compatible with the 802s and 803s, but this is known and has been proven to be untrue.

801s working in multiple with an 800 away from the wires won’t be supplying traction power, the engine will run just for onboard supplies.

 

[grangergranger]

803s are compatible with the rest of the 80x family, but won’t provide any traction power away from the wires.

As far as authorisation goes, it’s been done for the 802s, but not for the 800s and 801s. The official line from Hitachi/Agility is that the 800s and 801s aren’t compatible with the 802s and 803s, but this is known and has been proven to be untrue.

801s working in multiple with an 800 away from the wires won’t be supplying traction power, the engine will run just for onboard supplies.

An 803 cannot provide traction power off the wires as it has no power pack.

Ahhhh Thank you Both.

One more thing just to clarify, So would it ever be possible, let's just say a 803 is stranded because of OLE disruption, for a Hull Trains 802 to drag or push it along the ECML on diesel???

 

[DanNCL]

Any update on 803005?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Any update on 803005?

Last reports were it had made it to Craigentinny. Be nice if Christmas forced it out into action.

 

[St. Paddy]

803005 currently in London and working the 1045 departure to Edinburgh

 

[Mordac]

Have all five units entered service? Last time I heard there was one still to do so.

 

[JonathanH]

Have all five units entered service? Last time I heard there was one still to do so.

Yes, all five 803s are in use as noted in the post above yours which was the report of the last unit entering service.

 

[Mordac]

Thank you, I wasn't sure which was the one that was still outstanding.

 

[CDM]

Not strange at all - the APC (Auto Power Cut off) magnets located just before the neutral section will trigger opening of any VCB whether the pan is up or not.

That's not necessarily the case. On old-skool BR era electric stock that would happen, because the APC control was specific/local to the vehicle that has the VCB/pan on (provided aux set and battery fuses not out etc) but it isn't necessarily the case on modern stock, because the VCB control isn't necessarily 'local' to each vehicle, but instead is often syncronised/managed through the TMS. This means it's entirely possible that only VCB's that have the pans up, get opened/closed.

There's at least one manufacturer out there where the multiple VCB's on the train are all controlled via the TMS, based on commands from the leading VCB fitted vehicle, regardless of what the APC receivers on the VCB fitted vehicles further back, pick up. It means you could have the ridiculous scenario where the leading vehicle opens the VCBs, but due to a fault in the APC receiver on that leading VCB fitted vehicle, it doesn't reclose the VCB on that vehicle and therefore none of the following VCB's re-close either (even though the APC receivers further back on the train are working fine). Progress, eh?

Whole heartedly agree that the modern single-pot Alstom VCB's on most modern EMU's are *shockingly* noisy when they operate. Really alarming to passengers. Absolutely nuts that's where we've ended up.