Manchester - Stalybridge Electrification

[Magicake]

Thanks for that most interesting. Grayling strikes again.
I suppose a 5th question is would it have been cheaper to put masts up and support the extension cables from them. Bare cable run overhead is a fraction of the cost of using insulated in trunking.
K

It's an interesting thought, but I suspect not. I think the construction costs far outweigh the material costs even for the ground level route and the installation costs for installing foundations and working at height would be significantly greater.

 

[59CosG95]

It's an interesting thought, but I suspect not. I think the construction costs far outweigh the material costs even for the ground level route and the installation costs for installing foundations and working at height would be significantly greater.

Indeed, you've got to use a lot more OTP (RRVs, MEWPs etc.) which require many more trained operatives; training said operatives also takes time and money.

That being said, it does seem strange that they're pressing on with the G.E.L. being in a trough with the impending wiring of Man Vic-Stalybridge, but I suspect that when the time comes for the masts and wires to go up, the feeder cables could be linked to the new C&C much more quickly. I don't know the ins and outs of the feeding arrangement, but I think (and I hope!) that it will have some passive provision or modularity to allow future connection to an adjacent electrified system to be made with minimal effort.

 

[td97]

Would there not be a need for the cable trough to be used for the ATF cabling once full electrification is delivered?

 

[edwin_m]

The ATF could be elevated and usually is, except where it is troughed or ducted to get round/through structures. I think this is partly to reduce electromagnetic interference (it certainly did when I did some measurements on OLE with and without booster cables) because an equal but opposite current flowing nearby tends to cancel out the field from the contact wire.

Assuming Stalybridge is now to be electrified, I imagine the GEL will feed there as well as at Ordsall. But as I posted somewhere above, the GEL west of Stalybridge is largely redundant if both routes from Stalybridge into Manchester are electrified, as one of then can feed power into the rest of the network even if the other is isolated. This seems like an example of a cost arising from plans being made, not kept to and amended.

 

[trickyvegas]

I'm wondering if it would have made more sense to wire Stalybridge to Guide Bridge and feed the power through to Ordsall that way, only a short distance to cover and just two bridges for minor roads to contend with.

 

[edwin_m]

I'm wondering if it would have made more sense to wire Stalybridge to Guide Bridge and feed the power through to Ordsall that way, only a short distance to cover and just two bridges for minor roads to contend with.

I'm guessing here that if the power is fed through OLE they have to think about what happens if that OLE is isolated for maintenance or because of an incident. With only one such route connecting Stalybridge to the rest of the network, the Heyrod feeder would be useless in that situation, and previous posts indicate that it is essential to provide the full service on the Bolton line for example. If there were two electrified routes then it would be unlikely for both to be out of use at the same time (the feed at Stalybridge could be near the junction to ensure no common section). The GEL presumably doesn't have those sort of outages, or at least much less often, so can be tolerated as a single point of failure.

 

[MadMac]

I'm wondering if it would have made more sense to wire Stalybridge to Guide Bridge and feed the power through to Ordsall that way, only a short distance to cover and just two bridges for minor roads to contend with.

I think it was on here that I brought up the Mossend-Gartsherrie electrification in the 80s which worked out cheaper than replacing an old cable that connected the Glasgow North and South electric networks.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm wondering if it would have made more sense to wire Stalybridge to Guide Bridge and feed the power through to Ordsall that way, only a short distance to cover and just two bridges for minor roads to contend with.

I think the problem there is that that would tap into the WCML supply (which feeds up to Glossop) which is already at its limit.

 

[td97]

The ATF could be elevated and usually is, except where it is troughed or ducted to get round/through structures. I think this is partly to reduce electromagnetic interference (it certainly did when I did some measurements on OLE with and without booster cables) because an equal but opposite current flowing nearby tends to cancel out the field from the contact wire.

Makes sense, thanks for your reply

 

[trickyvegas]

Thanks for the answers, makes sense to me now.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the problem there is that that would tap into the WCML supply (which feeds up to Glossop) which is already at it limit.

I think it's the opposite, OLE (or perhaps a Little Extension Lead) from Stalybridge to Guide Bridge would allow Heyrod to feed the Glossop line and take some of the load off the WCML. However a feed to Ordsall Lane probably also takes some load off that and other feeders too.

 

[superkev]

It's an interesting thought, but I suspect not. I think the construction costs far outweigh the material costs even for the ground level route and the installation costs for installing foundations and working at height would be significantly greater.

As a retired electrical engineer although not railway related I find this difficult to believe. Overhead cabling, I seem to remember, was 1/10 of the cost of underground. The masts could be used for any post Grayling electrification.
K

 

[Elecman]

As a retired electrical engineer although not railway related I find this difficult to believe. Overhead cabling, I seem to remember, was 1/10 of the cost of underground. The masts could be used for any post Grayling electrification.
K

The GEL (great extension lead) isn’t underground it’s laid in troughing in the cess

 

[superkev]

The GEL (great extension lead) isn’t underground it’s laid in troughing in the cess

Its still very expensive hv insulated cable and you have to buy install the trough. A commercial 'mole plough would in a simple non railway envoirment bury the 14km of cable in a few days. Nothing simple on the railway.
K

 

[td97]

NR tweeted the weekend's progress on their 'quick fix' extension lead earlier (photos linked)

This weekend we installed a cable bridge on Clarence St, #Stalybridge.

The bridge is required to carry the electrical power supply we’re installing between Manchester - Stalybridge.

This will provide extra resilience to power electric trains in the North West #GNRP

https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/1100006241089277952

 

[Ken H]

Its still very expensive hv insulated cable and you have to buy install the trough. A commercial 'mole plough would in a simple non railway envoirment bury the 14km of cable in a few days. Nothing simple on the railway.
K

they don't want to put an electrification mast pile through it though!

 

[jonesy3001]

Just been reading this and during the easter weekend down the page it say's they will be putting up the overheads in between victoria and stalybridge, is this right?

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....coast-main-line-over-easter-may-bank-holidays

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Just been reading this and during the easter weekend down the page it say's they will be putting up the overheads in between victoria and stalybridge, is this right?

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....coast-main-line-over-easter-may-bank-holidays

Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge: continuing work on the electrification project between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge, with work to install telecommunications cabling and overhead line work taking place between Saturday 20 and Easter Monday.

Well it is an official communication so it should be

 

[jonesy3001]

Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge: continuing work on the electrification project between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge, with work to install telecommunications cabling and overhead line work taking place between Saturday 20 and Easter Monday.

Well it is an official communication so it should be

The start probably, can't see NR putting up overheads in 3 days.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The start probably, can't see NR putting up overheads in 3 days.

Dangly bits, a few wire runs and stuff like that then?

 

[jonesy3001]

Dangly bits, a few wire runs and stuff like that then?

How far is stalybridge from Victoria in yards?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

How far is stalybridge from Victoria in yards?

7 miles , 12 kilometres or approx 12320 yards

However , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalybridge_railway_station Wikipedia says 8.25 miles so that would make it 14520 yards

 

[jonesy3001]

Could be done in 3 days depending on the weather.

 

[Greybeard33]

Just been reading this and during the easter weekend down the page it say's they will be putting up the overheads in between victoria and stalybridge, is this right?

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....coast-main-line-over-easter-may-bank-holidays

The extent of the Easter work was previously clarified on the Transpennine thread:

Weekly ops notices are saying OLE on P1&2 at Man Vic are going live from April 21st. Also a short section of track east of Victoria, just over 1/3 of a mile long.

 

[Elecman]

Could be done in 3 days depending on the weather.

7 miles of piles/foundations/ masts/SPS and wires in 3 days? Most unlikely!!

 

[deltic08]

Could be done in 3 days depending on the weather.

Dream on. If it could be done that quickly the entire Great Western electrification would have been completed last year for £17/11.

No further electrification will be done until Miles Platting curve has been eased to 60mph.

 

[Jonny]

Dream on. If it could be done that quickly the entire Great Western electrification would have been completed last year for £17/11.

No further electrification will be done until Miles Platting curve has been eased to 60mph.

Which is probably a good move, given that all the work on that part would then have to be re-done. Apparently that was why the 1960s WCML was so expensive...

 

[M60lad]

Does anyone know when this work to Miles Platting curve is due to be done?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Does anyone know when this work to Miles Platting curve is due to be done?

There is no schedule for anything east of Man Vic East Jn, apart from the "extension lead".

 

[edwin_m]

When laying the extension lead have they avoided the footprint of any Miles Platting re-alignment?