May 17 timetable changes

[Starmill]

Ergh! I often use the 2015 and 2115 from Birmingham New Street. Seems crazy to me that they don't both continue to, at least, Preston.

Indeed if it were up to me I would strongly consider extending the 2015 through to Carlisle, to provide a post 2200 service from Preston to Carlisle. While they're at it, what about extending the 2030 from London to Lancaster to eliminate the huge gap from 2147 to 2313 in Preston to Carlisle service, and provide a later direct service from London Euston.

I do however very occasionally board the 2030 at Tamworth, which is currently a nonsense because it means you must go all the way to Warrington for a Manchester connection. Having it call at Crewe is a much welcome addition.

 

[rishtonlad]

It would help even if the 2015 from Birmingham connected at Crewe into the 19:30 from Euston.

 

[Chrism20]

2. The 16:43 London Euston to Edinburgh double-Voyager, departing Birmingham New Street at 18:15, apparently becomes a single Voyager between Birmingham New Street and Edinburgh. I'm not looking forward to that.

I catch the 1643 at Preston most weeks on a Thursday or Friday when heading home from working in Preston all week and definitely from there a five car voyager is fine for the number of passengers onboard. If it's busy leaving New Street the majority are only going to Wolves, Crewe, Warrington or Wigan as there aren't masses leaving at Preston.

Not sure about the other days but definitely on a Thursday and Friday a five car should cope reasonably well north of New Street.

The balancing act to that though means southbound the 0652 from Edinburgh becomes a pendolino and the 0851 becomes a double voyager.

From my point of view as an Edinburgh passenger those changes are positive as the southbound capacity in the morning is needed more than the northbound 2222 arrival.

 

[wls1]

Lots of changes to the GWR timetable with 387s going to Maidenhead. Filter trains running from Newbury to Maidenhead for example to get people onto the 387s which often run MAI-PAD non stop.

Also the chiltern parliamentary train now appears to run from PAD-HWY, any reason for this change?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Lots of changes to the GWR timetable with 387s going to Maidenhead. Filter trains running from Newbury to Maidenhead for example to get people onto the 387s which often run MAI-PAD non stop.

No idea where you got Newbury from, but it's simply wrong.

 

[wls1]

No idea where you got Newbury from, but it's simply wrong.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P04624/2017/07/04/advanced

0655 Newbury-Maidenhead

Woops that isn't the may timetable, oops.

 

[30907]

Lots of changes to the GWR timetable with 387s going to Maidenhead. Filter trains running from Newbury to Maidenhead for example to get people onto the 387s which often run MAI-PAD non stop.

Also the chiltern parliamentary train now appears to run from PAD-HWY, any reason for this change?

I can only find one nonstop MAI-PAD 0733 and return 1642 in the peak.

The parliamentary has run to High Wycombe before IIRC - operational convenience presumably.

 

[rg177]

I can only find one nonstop MAI-PAD 0733 and return 1642 in the peak.

The parliamentary has run to High Wycombe before IIRC - operational convenience presumably.

It does however run FROM South Ruislip, so anyone on Travelcards etc. can still get the track in

 

[MidnightFlyer]

2. The 16:43 London Euston to Edinburgh double-Voyager, departing Birmingham New Street at 18:15, apparently becomes a single Voyager between Birmingham New Street and Edinburgh. I'm not looking forward to that.

Any time I have seen this service at Preston it has been dead, easily quiet enough to use a 5-car set. I suspect it can be busy upon departure from Birmingham for Wolves, but beyond that I wouldn't expect it to be full and standing.

Indeed if it were up to me I would strongly consider extending the 2015 through to Carlisle, to provide a post 2200 service from Preston to Carlisle. ...

That would leave you with a unit overnight at Carlisle, a practice that ended with VHF in December 2008, and a unit down at Oxley for the next morning, plus the need for a driver to either stay with it overnight, or one to taxi from it and another to taxi to it the next morning. As nice as it would be to have a later service, I don't envy the poor train planner who'd have to rebalance the units and work the diagrams to fit everything in. I believe these changes in general on the late xx15s have entailed the removal of a lot of late night ecs moves (such as the 2133 Glasgow-Preston), and the provisions made to maintain a late Preston connection from the 2115 mean it's probably for the best.

Not sure about the other days but definitely on a Thursday and Friday a five car should cope reasonably well north of New Street.

The balancing act to that though means southbound the 0652 from Edinburgh becomes a pendolino and the 0851 becomes a double voyager.

From my point of view as an Edinburgh passenger those changes are positive as the southbound capacity in the morning is needed more than the northbound 2222 arrival.

I believe Thursday and Friday are the busiest evenings for Edinburgh, so if it's suitable for then then it should be fine earlier in the week. I concur the increased AM southbound capacity makes this a worthwhile move.

 

[All Line Rover]

Ergh! I often use the 2015 and 2115 from Birmingham New Street. Seems crazy to me that they don't both continue to, at least, Preston.

Indeed if it were up to me I would strongly consider extending the 2015 through to Carlisle, to provide a post 2200 service from Preston to Carlisle.

The Birmingham to Scotland route has, from a commuter perspective, been getting worse for years. First, the introduction of an extended dwell time at Wolverhampton has increased journeys times - e.g. Warrington to Birmingham from 1h 15m to 1h 26m. Second, first class evening meals have been withdrawn from the 17:15 and 18:15 departures from Birmingham to Glasgow and Edinburgh respectively, both taking just over 4 hours to reach their destination (evening meals are still served on trains from London if boarding at Tamworth or Lichfield, even on trains terminating at Lancaster, so when travelling from Birmingham to the North West I sometimes travel via Tamworth). And finally there is this worsening of the early (let alone late) evening service. It might help with diagramming but a last direct departure of 19:15 on a long distance route isn't good enough.

In spite of the above, travelling via Preston remains far more pleasant than travelling via York with CrossCountry. Not that that is difficult to achieve.

 

[All Line Rover]

Any time I have seen this service at Preston it has been dead, easily quiet enough to use a 5-car set. I suspect it can be busy upon departure from Birmingham for Wolves, but beyond that I wouldn't expect it to be full and standing.

I'm surprised, as back when it was the 18:20 Birmingham to Edinburgh service - and a 5 car Voyager (as were all Birmingham to Scotland trains) - I remember the train being standing room only including in first class. Standard class usually had a few seats available after Wolverhampton, but not necessarily after Crewe with the number of passengers boarding there.

Despite the train being so busy, the one first class host managed to serve every passenger in first class an evening meal by Warrington, and usually by Crewe for those alighting there.

 

[Chrism20]

I'm surprised, as back when it was the 18:20 Birmingham to Edinburgh service - and a 5 car Voyager (as were all Birmingham to Scotland trains) - I remember the train being standing room only including in first class. Standard class usually had a few seats available after Wolverhampton, but not necessarily after Crewe with the number of passengers boarding there.

Despite the train being so busy, the one first class host managed to serve every passenger in first class an evening meal by Warrington, and usually by Crewe for those alighting there.

Its definitely quieter than it used to be. I'm not sure why that is tbh. Flybe's schedule to Edinburgh has remained the same for the last few years so its not a shift in passengers from train to plane. I'm not sure if another operators timetable has changed along the New Street to Wolves corridor and this has reduced the loadings etc.

As an example tonight there are 28 first class seats available between Preston and Edinburgh plus there will be some reserved for traveller so there is more or less one full first class carriage empty north of Preston. From Birmingham there were 22 seats available in first class to Edinburgh tonight, it will certainly be nearer capacity than it is now obviously but a five car should cope.

It's a shame that when it detaches at New Street it goes back to Euston as if it wasn't there could have been the option to run the double set to Preston which arrives at 1951 and could have returned back south attached to the five car set which comes from Blackpool North and passes through Preston at 2014. That would have been the best option as after Preston a five imo is sufficient but operationally its not possible.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Lots of tinkering in Chiltern land, with stops being swapped all over the place!

Biggest change is the withdrawal of the Bubble Cars, with stock workings being altered to allow a 165 to replace them.

Mondays to Fridays:

Northbound:

• 0648 Marylebone - Oxford calls additionally at Gerrards Cross (0705) and Beaconsfield (0711), runs 4 minutes later to High Wycombe (0717) and Princes Risborough (0726), 3 minutes later at Haddenham & Thame Parkway (0732) before regaining the existing path to Bicester Village (0745), Oxford Parkway (0753) and Oxford (arr 0802).
• 0701 Marylebone - Banbury is retimed to depart Marylebone at 0700, departs South Ruislip 4 minutes earlier than at present at 0728 and calls additionally at West Ruislip (0731) and Denham (0736), before regaining the current path at Gerrards Cross (0741), arriving Banbury at 0845.
• 0717 ECS from Marylebone - West Ruislip is retimed to depart Marylebone at 0718, and now runs in passenger service, calling at Wembley Stadium (0727) and terminating at West Ruislip at 0740.
• 0721 Marylebone - High Wycombe is retimed to depart Marylebone at 0729, running fast to Gerrards Cross (0748), Beaconsfield (0754) and arriving at High Wycombe at 0803.
• 0817 Marylebone - Aylesbury via High Wycombe no longer calls at Seer Green & Jordans.
• 0821 Marylebone - High Wycombe calls additionally at Seer Green & Jordans at 0850.
• 0833 Marylebone - High Wycombe no longer calls at West Ruislip.
• 0915 Marylebone - Aylesbury via High Wycombe is retimed to depart Marylebone at 0913 and cut back to terminate at Princes Risborough at 0958. A connection to Aylesbury is provided by a new 1007 departure from Princes Risborough, calling at Monks Risborough (1011), Little Kimble (1015) and due into Aylesbury at 1025.
• 0919 Marylebone - High Wycombe is retimed to depart Marylebone at 0917, and loses its South Ruislip call. It gains a call at West Ruislip at 0935, however.
• 0935 Marylebone - Oxford no longer calls at Beaconsfield.
• 0940 Marylebone - Birmingham Snow Hill calls additionally at Beaconsfield at 1002.
• 1136 Paddington - West Ruislip runs non-stop from Paddington - High Wycombe, arriving at 1227.
• 1507 Marylebone - Oxford is retimed to depart Marylebone at 1505 and runs non-stop to Bicester Village.
• 1510 Marylebone - Birmingham Snow Hill calls additionally at Haddenham & Thame Parkway at 1548.
• 1535 Marylebone - Oxford loses its call at Islip, with no replacement.
• 1727 Marylebone - West Ruislip loses its call at Wembley Stadium.
• 1753 Marylebone - Aylesbury via High Wycombe loses its West Ruislip call, but calls additionally at Denham Golf Club at 1812.
• 1756 Marylebone - Gerrards Cross is retimed to depart Marylebone at 1804, calls additionally at Wembley Stadium (1813) and loses its Denham Golf Club call.
• 1802 Marylebone - High Wycombe is retimed to depart Marylebone at 1801 and loses its Wembley Stadium call, but calls additionally at West Ruislip at 1816.
• 1821 Marylebone - Bicester North calls additionally at Haddenham & Thame Parkway at 1906 and is extended to terminate at Banbury at 1937.
• 1824 Marylebone - Stratford-upon-Avon calls additionally at Northolt Park at 1836 and loses its Haddenham & Thame Parkway call.
• 1828 Marylebone - West Ruislip calls additionally at Sudbury Hill Harrow at 1843 and loses its Northolt Park call.
• 1856 Marylebone - Gerrards Cross calls additionally at Wembley Stadium at 1905 and loses its Sudbury Hill Harrow call.
• 1903 Marylebone - High Wycombe no longer calls at Wembley Stadium.
• 2007 Marylebone - Oxford no longer calls at Haddenham & Thame Parkway.
• 2037 Marylebone - Birmingham Snow Hill no longer calls at High Wycombe, but calls additionally at Haddenham & Thame Parkway at 2111.
• 2040 Marylebone - Oxford calls additionally at High Wycombe at 2105, but no longer calls at Haddenham & Thame Parkway.
• 2132 Marylebone - Oxford no longer calls at Islip.
• 2207 Marylebone - Oxford no longer calls at Haddenham & Thame Parkway, but calls additionally at Islip at 2259.

Southbound:

• 0708 High Wycombe - Marylebone retimed to depart High Wycombe at 0710, no longer calling at Denham or Wembley Stadium.
• 0625 Oxford - Marylebone calls additionally at Denham at 0713.
• 0646 Aylesbury - Marylebone via High Wycombe is retimed to depart Aylesbury at 0648 and calls additionally at Wembley Stadium at 0744.
• 0821 Gerrards Cross - Marylebone is retimed to depart Gerrards Cross at 0822, no longer calls at Denham or South Ruislip, but calls additionally at West Ruislip at 0829.
• 0811 High Wycombe - Marylebone calls additionally at Denham (0830) and South Ruislip (0836), but no longer calls at West Ruislip.
• 0801 Oxford - Marylebone no longer calls at Gerrards Cross.
• 0821 Oxford - Marylebone calls additionally at Gerrards Cross at 0910.
• 0733 Stratford-upon-Avon - Marylebone calls additionally at Seer Green & Jordans at 0912.
• 0705 Kidderminster - Marylebone calls additionally at Bicester North at 0855.
• 0920 Gerrards Cross - Marylebone is cut back to start from West Ruislip at 0926, no longer calling at Denham or South Ruislip, but calls additionally at Northolt Park at 0932.
• 0912 High Wycombe - Marylebone is retimed to start from HIgh Wycombe at 0917, no longer calling at Seer Green & Jordans, West Ruislip or Northolt Park.
• 0840 Oxford - Marylebone calls additionally at Denham at 0938.
• 0730 Kidderminster - Marylebone no longer calls at Bicester North.
• 0907 Banbury - Marylebone no longer calls at Princes Risborough.
• 1020 High Wycombe - Marylebone no longer calls at Seer Green & Jordans.
• 1018 Princes Risborough - Marylebone is retimed to depart Princes Risborough at 1016, and calls additionally at Seer Green & Jordans at 1035.
• 1147 Banbury - Marylebone is retimed to depart Banbury at 1148 and no longer calls at Haddenham & Thame Parkway.
• 1112 Birmingham Snow Hill - Marylebone calls additionally at Haddenham & Thame Parkway at 1227.
• 1329 Aylesbury - Marylebone via High Wycombe is retimed to depart Aylesbury at 1331 and calls additionally at Wembley Stadium at 1426.
• 1412 Birmingham Snow Hill - Marylebone calls additionally at High Wycombe (1537) and Gerrards Cross (1547).
• 1511 Oxford - Marylebone calls additionally at Beaconsfield at 1559.
• 1547 Banbury - Marylebone is retimed to depart Banbury at 1548 and no longer calls at Haddenham & Thame Parkway.
• 1512 Birmingham Snow Hill - Marylebone calls additionally at Haddenham & Thame Parkway at 1627.
• 1611 Oxford - Marylebone calls additionally at Denham at 1702.
• 1629 Aylesbury - Marylebone via High Wycombe no longer calls at Gerrards Cross or Denham, but calls additionally at Northolt Park (1721) and Wembley Stadium (1726).
• 1733 West Ruislip - Marylebone is extended to start back from High Wycombe at 1703, calling at Beaconsfield (1710), Seer Green & Jordans (1713) and Gerrards Cross (1718), but no longer calls at South Ruislip.
• 1720 High Wycombe - Marylebone is retimed to depart High Wycombe at 1723 and no longer calls at West Ruislip, but calls additionally at Northolt Park at 1749.
• 1645 Banbury - Marylebone no longer calls at Haddenham & Thame Parkway, but calls additionally at South Ruislip at 1752.
• 1612 Birmingham Snow Hill - Marylebone calls additionally at Haddenham & Thame Parkway at 1727.
• Additional 1710 Oxford Parkway - Marylebone, calling at Bicester Village (1720), High Wycombe (1745), Gerrards Cross (1754), Denham (1758), South Ruislip (1804), Wembley Stadium (1811) and due into Marylebone at 1826.
• 1746 Banbury - Marylebone no longer calls at Haddenham & Thame Parkway, but calls additionally at South Ruislip at 1850.
• 1803 Oxford - Marylebone calls additionally at High Wycombe at 1845.
• 1855 Gerrards Cross - Marylebone is retimed to depart Gerrards Cross at 1858 and no longer calls at South Ruislip.
• 1840 Birmingham Snow Hill - Marylebone no longer calls at Beaconsfield.
• 1920 Oxford - Marylebone is retimed to depart Oxford at 1927 and calls additionally at Islip (1939) and Beaconsfield (2019).
• 2017 High Wycombe - Marylebone calls additionally at West Ruislip (2039) but no longer calls at South Ruislip.
• 2000 Oxford - Marylebone no longer calls at Islip.
• 1917 Birmingham Snow Hill - Marylebone calls additionally at Haddenham & Thame Parkway (2042), Princes Risborough (2049), Saunderton (2054), High Wycombe (2101), Beaconsfield (2107) and Gerrards Cross (2113), arriving Marylebone at 2135.
• 2026 Oxford - Marylebone no longer calls at Princes Risborough or Saunderton.
• 2251 High Wycombe - Marylebone no longer calls at Denham Golf Club, but calls additionally at West Ruislip at 2313.
• 2315 Oxford - High Wycombe no longer calls at Saunderton.

Saturdays:

Northbound:

• 1132 Leamington Spa - Stratford-upon-Avon calls additionally at Hatton at 1144.
• 2240 Marylebone - Banbury no longer calls at Kings Sutton.

Southbound:

NO CHANGES SHOWN

Sundays:

Northbound:

• 2240 Marylebone - Banbury no longer calls at Kings Sutton.
• 2345 Marylebone - Banbury is diverted to Aylesbury upon leaving Princes Risborough, calling at Monks Risborough (0048), Little Kimble (0052) and due to arrive at Aylesbury at 0103.
• Additional 0005 Marylebone - Banbury, calling at Gerrards Cross (0025), Beaconsfield (0032), High Wycombe (0038), Princes Risborough (0048), Haddenham & Thame Parkway (0055), Bicester North (0108), Kings Sutton (0119) and due to arrive at Banbury at 0127.

Southbound:

NO CHANGES SHOWN

 

[Techniquest]

Jesus that was quite a list of changes! Personally I don't understand their idea of putting stops like Denham into inter-city services. Just feels bizarre, and I still miss my non-stop London to Banbury services on the loco-hauled services. Yes it's just the one stop at High Wycombe added in, but it still annoys me.

Hopefully it'll all work out better for Chiltern!

 

[mikestone1952]

From RTT it would appear the slam door set is going to be sent to Banbury depot reception after servicing

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P26033/2017/05/31/advanced

and then back to form the 17.21

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P26031/2017/05/31/advanced

presumably to avoid the crossing move at Wembley.

Construction of the depot buildings at Banbury is now well advanced contrary to the assertion that it would never happen.
It also looks from RTT as though the set previously stabled at Banbury Road is staying in the bay at Oxford.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Forgot to mention it, but it looks like the stock from the 1136 ex-PAD will now run ECS to Aylesbury afterwards, though it's showing as a "Q" path.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P26022/2017/05/31/advanced

 

[GW43125]

Huge ask I know, but do we yet know what the XC HSTs will be doing?
Thanks.

 

[alexf380]

Huge ask I know, but do we yet know what the XC HSTs will be doing?
Thanks.

I found this post in the "Frequently requested diagrams updates" thread a few days ago.
Glad to see the 07:07 off Edinburgh becoming an HST through the week, it's one I'm partial to using if I'm going away somewhere.

XC HST diagrams effective 22nd May 2017 until September. 4 sets out 7 days a week.

Monday to Friday

1V44 0600 Leeds Plymouth
1S51 1225 Plymouth Glasgow

1V46 0640 York Plymouth
1S53 1325 Plymouth Edinburgh

1V50 0606 Edinburgh Plymouth
1E63 1525 Plymouth Leeds

1V52 0707 Edinburgh Plymouth
1E67 1625 Plymouth Leeds

Saturdays

1V44 0600 Leeds Paignton
1S51 1235 Paignton Glasgow

1V48 0745 York Penzance
1E75 1625 Penzance Leeds

1V52 0601 Glasgow Paignton
1E67 1637 Paignton Leeds

1D00 0727 Edinburgh Glasgow
1V58 0900 Glasgow Penzance
2C80 2129 Penzance Plymouth

Sundays

2C64 0901 Plymouth Newquay
1S53 1132 Newquay Edinburgh

1V48 0810 Leeds Plymouth
1S55 1425 Plymouth Edinburgh

1V50 0900 Leeds Plymouth
1E63 1524 Plymouth York

1V56 0908 Edinburgh Plymouth
1E75 1825 Plymouth Leeds

 

[GW43125]

I found this post in the "Frequently requested diagrams updates" thread a few days ago.
Glad to see the 07:07 off Edinburgh becoming an HST through the week, it's one I'm partial to using if I'm going away somewhere.

1S53 becoming an HST all week? Brilliant, thank you!

 

[Starmill]

Isn't 1V52 M-F actually Glasgow Central to Plymouth?

 

[alexf380]

Indeed it is, not sure why it's only been listed as from Edinburgh above.

 

[Starmill]

Furthermore, I thought the notion of XC sending HSTs to Newquay had been dropped owing to relatively low loadings? Or is the Sunday only one still happening?

 

[PHILIPE]

Indeed it is, not sure why it's only been listed as from Edinburgh above.

Starts Edinburgh in current Timetable, Glasgow from May

 

[louis97]

I found this post in the "Frequently requested diagrams updates" thread a few days ago.
Glad to see the 07:07 off Edinburgh becoming an HST through the week, it's one I'm partial to using if I'm going away somewhere.

The weekdays are incorrect, not all diagrams run every day.
1V44/1S51 and 1V50/1E63 run all week
1V46/1S53 run Mondays
1V52/1E67 run Fridays

Saturdays are correct.

Sundays are incorrect, the Newquay is no longer an HST, the 1225 from Plymouth to Glasgow is instead.

 

[Blindtraveler]

So 12:25x PLY is HST 6 or 7 days a week, good. As for that Edinburgh Glasgow Penzance Plymouth Saturdays, I, Must, Ride!

 

[GW43125]

The weekdays are incorrect, not all diagrams run every day.
1V44/1S51 and 1V50/1E63 run all week
1V46/1S53 run Mondays
1V52/1E67 run Fridays

Saturdays are correct.

Sundays are incorrect, the Newquay is no longer an HST, the 1225 from Plymouth to Glasgow is instead.

So we're back to the "1S53 is HST MO?"

 

[berneyarms]

Two TOCs now have full new timetable pdfs on their websites:
CrossCountry
Virgin Trains

 

[All Line Rover]

The 16:30 and 16:57 from Euston to Glasgow no longer serve evening meals to passengers departing Euston. That leaves the 16:57 (almost 5 hours from London to Glasgow) without any evening meal service.

On the other hand, the 15:30 and 16:30 from Euston to Glasgow now serve evening meals to passengers travelling between Preston and Glagsow.

I'm surprised Virgin Trains has made further changes to the detriment of high-fare passengers from Euston, but is feeling generous to low-paying passengers further north. (There are plenty of £35 1st Advance fares on the 15:30 and 16:30 between Preston and Glasgow. Euston to Preston is typically £150.)

 

[brompton rail]

Two TOCs now have full new timetable pdfs on their websites:
CrossCountry
Virgin Trains

Now joined by Northern - all May 2017 t/ts available to download.

By the way, searching for Network Rail's eTimetable is a very frustrating exercise, no link from their front page. Oh, and of course May 2017 isn't up yet!

 

[InOban]

If you search for national rail timetable production schedule 2016, you should find a pdf which shows the key dates for the next three timetable changes. According to that the new NRT is published on Friday, 21st, so every TOC should have it up by then.