May 2023 changes

[PGAT]

Do I remember rightly that the erstwhile Littlehampton ex Thameslink services will be changing to Electrostars?

Indeed

 

[HarryF]

Indeed

Is this made possible by the transfer of 377s from SouthEastern or is there some other shuffle taking place?

 

[PGAT]

Is this made possible by the transfer of 377s from SouthEastern or is there some other shuffle taking place?

To my knowledge, there are no fleet shuffles involving Southern at the moment

 

[ctrh136]

To my knowledge, there are no fleet shuffles involving Southern at the moment

Will there be formation cuts as a result of this and the 313 withdrawal? I know some Oxted line services got reduced to 8 car but had 12 car restored again recently. I hope those don't get reduced again!

 

[PGAT]

Will there be formation cuts as a result of this and the 313 withdrawal? I know some Oxted line services got reduced to 8 car but had 12 car restored again recently. I hope those don't get reduced again!

Oxted Line has and will continue to have a mixture of 8 and 12 car trains. Most of the big cuts were last year when the 455s were let go

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

This has been going on to a greater or lesser extent since May 18. Ever since then, except during the period where the really slimmed-down Covid timetables were running, it’s been common to experience what you have described. 700/0 on a 700/1 diagram has always been fairly common on GN (and I don’t mean where 700/0s have been *booked* as has sometimes been the case). Likewise cancellations due to train faults.

Despite my relatively low mileage on them, I’ve had more 700 failures in service than was ever the case with over two decades using 365s where they not once failed mid-journey on me. Indeed I struggle to recall a time when I suffered an outright cancellation due to a failed 365.

The majority of services from my station have been Thameslink 700's since May 2018 and they've performed fine with never a failure of AC/DC c/o in either direction. Only issue ive ever had with a 700 is when a train sat down at Balcombe with an alleged bearing issue. We were all chucked off and the train set off to Brighton albeit at reduced speed but got there and in all probability it was only a sensor failure i suspect.

It doesn’t really bode well that they are suffering even with the timetables having been slimmed back compared to pre-Covid. I guess things will improve in May with 387s taking over a chunk of their work on the stopping services, though a by-product of this will likely give us more 700/0 on 700/1 diagrams.

Going to throw off even more surplus 700's if that the case.

Do I remember rightly that the erstwhile Littlehampton ex Thameslink services will be changing to Electrostars?

ditto

 

[PGAT]

Just noticed that Three Oaks and Winchelsea are now getting an hourly service from May!

 

[infobleep]

They regularly change times with plenty of allowances on Sundays as the base timetable has to assume two line working between Gatwick and Redhill instead of normal 4 line. Different engineering also means different times.

From May the Base timetable on Sundays is changing. Instead of 2 Thameslink services per hour Three Bridges to Bedford and 1 Horsham to London Bridge there will be a 2 per hour service Bedford to Three Bridges/Horsham (alternate trains swap destination - only the Horsham services call at Earlswood/Salfords). Hence the Reading to Gatwick service can now go at full speed.

Of course, if it is 2 lines then it would be different timings anyway so the base would have to change regardless I'm guessing.
Great that the train can go full speed though. Always a shame when faster non-stop services have to run slower due to pathing issues.

Of course, if I am traveling for leisure and I want to view disused railway sites and stations from the train, it can run as slow as it likes.

 

[185]

It looks from the timetable data like WMT may be partly or wholly abolishing First Class from May. Can anyone confirm either way?

Noticed that the other day after they were uploaded. Looking like every LNR train showing Standard Class Only. Wonder if it's an error, or something is afoot that they really should have publicised months ago - just 5ish weeks away this timetable.

 

[Bald Rick]

PPM no longer exists.

Technically it does, but it’s not how operator performance is officially measured (with a couple of exceptions)

Time to 3 effectively is the same thing to an outsider, with similer consequences for missing it.

it is quite different, although they do produce a similar number!

 

[Horizon22]

Oh I absolutely get that except that tonight for example I was on a very busy train from Paddington that was first stop Didcot - when a Reading stop is added in May I suspect it will be rammed!

Would probably be best to adapt the model to advertise certain trains as pick up only from Paddington.

Technically it does, but it’s not how operator performance is officially measured (with a couple of exceptions)



it is quite different, although they do produce a similar number!

There’s quite a few performance measures about to my knowledge, all which tell a slightly different story. Right Time, T-3 and PPM and then cancelled and part-cancelled are some.

 

[BenS123]

South Western Railway have today confirmed their timetable changes: https://www.southwesternrailway.com/other/news-and-media/news/2023/april/swr-confirms-may-timetable

We have confirmed our new timetable which will operate from Monday 22 May 2023.

The new timetable continues to match capacity with demand, with customer numbers at 78% of their total prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Peak time travel has recovered to 61% of pre-pandemic levels, meaning demand remains below the network’s available capacity.

A small number of important changes have been made to improve performance and provide better onward travel connections.

Spoiler: SWR May 2023 Changes

To improve the performance of key trains used by students at schools in the Weybridge and Chertsey areas, the following changes will be made:

• 0723 London Waterloo-Alton starts 3 minutes earlier at 0720
• 0720 London Waterloo-Woking starts 3 minutes earlier at 0717
• 0717 London Waterloo-Chessington South starts 3 minutes later at 0720
• 0803 Weybridge-London Waterloo starts 1 minute earlier at 0802

To provide better connections in Lymington for ferries to Yarmouth, Isle of Wight, two changes will be made:

• 0929 Brockenhurst-Lymington Pier starts 13 minutes later at 0942
• 0944 Lymington Pier-Brockenhurst 13 minutes later at 0957

To improve the spread of services on the Portsmouth Direct Line, between Portsmouth Harbour and London Waterloo via Guildford, one change will be made:

• 0615 Portsmouth Harbour-London Waterloo starts 5 minutes earlier at 0610

To improve the spread of services between Westbury and Yeovil Pen Mill, and to better integrate with Great Western Railway’s new timetable on its Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth route, two changes will be made:

• 1137 Basingstoke-Yeovil Junction via Westbury starts 1 minute later at 1138 and will terminate at Salisbury instead of Yeovil Junction
• A new service, 1251 Salisbury-Yeovil Junction via Westbury, will be introduced

 

[BluePenguin]

Completely agree - with Chiltern's slowing down makes me even more inclined to take Avanti. Worst case scenario, LNR to Rugby and change there onto a Crewe flyer into London.

I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean you would board a Crewe - London fast service at Rugby? Did the timetable usually make this worth while?

 

[xydancer]

Noticed that the other day after they were uploaded. Looking like every LNR train showing Standard Class Only. Wonder if it's an error, or something is afoot that they really should have publicised months ago - just 5ish weeks away this timetable.

First class tickets are also showing as 'not available' more or less across the board on their booking engine, though I did find one or two early morning exceptions. If it is a change, they are keeping very quiet about it!

 

[AD90]

Chester to Liverpool service over the Halton Curve is running again.

 

[jfollows]

I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean you would board a Crewe - London fast service at Rugby? Did the timetable usually make this worth while?

I presume meaning something like 1Y44 13:36 Birmingham New Street to London Euston, but get off at Rugby at 14:15 to catch 1U32 14:27 (13:13 from Crewe) to Euston arrive 15:24 which is 25 minutes earlier than the arrival time from staying on 1Y44.

 

[Desirolly]

Are the additional AAP (Alexandra Palace) stops for the slow Cambridge/letchworth services really needed?

 

[8stewartt]

I'm sure you can guess some of the likely candidates

It won't be done LTP at this stage, at least not for the start of the TT.


2 mins engineering allowance, which really isn't enough considering how far some of the services have come. Also nothing for trains from the Airport (unless they stop at all stations, in which case they get a pathetic <0.5> ).

It's the headway and reoccupation values which are the biggest issue though. They're simply unachievable given the signalling layout, as well as the length of modern units and the defensive driving policies that TOCs have adopted.

Then you get me trundling through on my 100 SLU container train, getting given yellow red yellow red, expected to keep moving but with air having to run the whole length of the train for the brakes to release each time....

 

[bramling]

Are the additional AAP stops for the slow Cambridge/letchworth services really needed?

This came up before, the general feeling on here is that the answer is no.

Having said that, since May 18 most timetables have had the up services have extended dwells at some stations plus pathing time in the Alexandra Palace area, so it probably won’t affect the overall journey time (except when running late, of course). It will also effectively prevent these services using the fast lines to make up time or overtake a late-running Moorgate service.

But it gives Alexandra Palace their off-peak 6tph back, something they have had since the 1990s.

 

[jon0844]

I suppose if a train is running late, we'll see Alexandra Palace skipped in a heartbeat!

 

[Desirolly]

The introduction of the Sevenoaks services caused some issues through there too. Constantly 2/3 mins late but it created a pinch point when the Moorgate service came off the Hertford Loop, but it think it’s better now

 

[bramling]

I suppose if a train is running late, we'll see Alexandra Palace skipped in a heartbeat!

Knowing GTR they’d probably throw in Hatfield and Potters Bar for good measure. Indeed this is possibly more likely with the new timetable having shorter turnarounds at King’s Cross.

 

[jfollows]

The public timetable at https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/may2023/ seems reasonably complete now, it may be missing some tables but the ones I was looking for are all there now.

 

[dk1]

Chester to Liverpool service over the Halton Curve is running again.

Think that’s been mentioned already as isn’t it only 2-hourly?

 

[mangyiscute]

I can't believe that there are genuinely people arguing against the Brockenhurst stop - considering the train will not take any longer and is usually quite empty why would not stopping be better? The only question I might ask is whether a stop elsewhere could be more beneficial, somewhere like Christchurch could get more passengers than Brockenhurst so perhaps it would be better to stop there.

 

[anthony263]

The public timetable at https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/may2023/ seems reasonably complete now, it may be missing some tables but the ones I was looking for are all there now.

No local South wales ones though

 

[splashoutradio]

No local South wales ones though

There has been a lot of late notice changes to the timetable data recently, and I know Brian puts in a lot of effort to manually manipulate and ensure the accuracy of the tables - a very timely process. So I'm sure they'll be online before too long.

However, if there's a specific route you're after, I can send you a copy of the May timetable (albeit not the Fabdigital version, I'm afraid.)

 

[CICERO55]

Think that’s been mentioned already as isn’t it only 2-hourly?

2 hourly for the last 3 years sadly

 

[BrianB]

There has been a lot of late notice changes to the timetable data recently, and I know Brian puts in a lot of effort to manually manipulate and ensure the accuracy of the tables - a very timely process. So I'm sure they'll be online before too long.

However, if there's a specific route you're after, I can send you a copy of the May timetable (albeit not the Fabdigital version, I'm afraid.)

Indeed, with TOCS posting endless revisions every night it would be a pointless task creating the tables only to have to do them again, for example the Chiltern mainline is now on its 3rd iteration and TFW are posting endless revisions, although it does seem to have now settled down! As an update, there are now only about 23 tables left to and these will be posted soon, SW routes first, then SN, then SE, then TFW, then the miscellaneous rag bag that are the last NT and TP tables

 

[jfollows]

Indeed, with TOCS posting endless revisions every night it would be a pointless task creating the tables only to have to do them again, for example the Chiltern mainline is now on its 3rd iteration and TFW are posting endless revisions, although it does seem to have now settled down! As an update, there are now only about 23 tables left to and these will be posted soon, SW routes first, then SN, then SE, then TFW, then the miscellaneous rag bag that are the last NT and TP tables

Thanks for the update, Brian, you do a great job and you're made very busy by all the revisions for sure. It's just so good to have someone who cares doing this job now, and although it's not good that the timetable isn't finalised yet, you're the victim and the messenger and not the cause.