McGill's Buses - Renfrewshire & Inverclyde

[GaryMcEwan]

Could this be signalling the end of McGill’s I wonder

Doubt it somehow. The Easdales won't go without a fight of some sort.

 

[overthewater]

Or a big was of cash..

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I wonder if McGills are hedging their bets on SPT subsidising the route? Although infant see this happening as it's quite a long route.

I wonder if West Coast Motors would jump in and take it over seeing as they already operate a smattering of services in Dunoon.

 

[christopherrfc]

I wonder if McGills are hedging their bets on SPT subsidising the route? Although infant see this happening as it's quite a long route.

I wonder if West Coast Motors would jump in and take it over seeing as they already operate a smattering of services in Dunoon.

I think argyle and bute council would subsided the but only between Dunoon and Greenock

 

[alangla]

Surely they can service it by running the 901 into the terminal at McInroy’s point and running a shuttle from Hunter’s Quay on the other side? Would love to see the usage profile of that service in terms of paid vs concession & summer vs winter.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I think argyle and bute council would subsided the but only between Dunoon and Greenock

Wouldn't that then fall under SPT to subsidise and not Argyll and Bute Council?

 

[alangla]

Wouldn't that then fall under SPT to subsidise and not Argyll and Bute Council?

Argyll & Bute left SPT in the 1990s, didn’t they? When you get beyond about Cardross, the bus stops change from being SPT branded to Argyll & Bute branding, often overlaid on old Strathclyde Transport flags

EDIT - are you thinking because Inverclyde are still in SPT?

 

[route101]

Argyll & Bute left SPT in the 1990s, didn’t they? When you get beyond about Cardross, the bus stops change from being SPT branded to Argyll & Bute branding, often overlaid on old Strathclyde Transport flags

EDIT - are you thinking because Inverclyde are still in SPT?

The SPT daytripper is valid into Argyll and Bute .

One thing is why are daytripper tickets not valid on McGills?

Used hthe 907 from Glasgow to Dunoon , was quiet and i probably only person who bought a ticket onthe bus.

 

[route101]

Its funny how they talk about technology advancing and like to make a fanfare of Contactless ticket machines and The M-Ticket app, but its causing them to feel a pinch, profit wise because of fraud.

Simply remove child tickets from the app!

Do First have the same problem i wonder?

 

[overthewater]

Maybe Scots Government has started to clamp down on these strange routes, How much does Mcgills get to help pay for the ferry? Its £9 return however its only £1.30? SPT Travel Ferry Card Concession - Gourock to Dunoon.

There are plenty of other waiting in the wings to take over routes...

 

[156478]

The SPT daytripper is valid into Argyll and Bute .

One thing is why are daytripper tickets not valid on McGills?

Used hthe 907 from Glasgow to Dunoon , was quiet and i probably only person who bought a ticket onthe bus.

McGills and indeed any operator who accept Zonecards get revenue from Zonecards through the twice yearly Diary process. Zonecard customer purchases a Zonecard and gets a Diary for a week. They note who and how they use their Zonecard. This data is then used to divide the revenue from Zonecards to participating operators. While it’s not total certainty it’s a decent representation of how someone uses their Zonecard.

When it comes to Daytripper as far as I know the only data captured about them is how many are sold as each are individually numbered. No one really knows how they are used, where they are going and how many people actually travel on one- is it one person only on a small ticket on a jolly around Strathclyde which is also valid for one adult and two kids is it one adult and three kids on a large ticket which is also valid for two adults and four kids?

Both Daytripper and Zonecard are so out of date as a result, they need to be Smart tickets to accurately ensure each operator gets their fair share of the revenue. Maybe then McGills will accept the Daytripper.

 

[route101]

McGills and indeed any operator who accept Zonecards get revenue from Zonecards through the twice yearly Diary process. Zonecard customer purchases a Zonecard and gets a Diary for a week. They note who and how they use their Zonecard. This data is then used to divide the revenue from Zonecards to participating operators. While it’s not total certainty it’s a decent representation of how someone uses their Zonecard.

When it comes to Daytripper as far as I know the only data captured about them is how many are sold as each are individually numbered. No one really knows how they are used, where they are going and how many people actually travel on one- is it one person only on a small ticket on a jolly around Strathclyde which is also valid for one adult and two kids is it one adult and three kids on a large ticket which is also valid for two adults and four kids?

Both Daytripper and Zonecard are so out of date as a result, they need to be Smart tickets to accurately ensure each operator gets their fair share of the revenue. Maybe then McGills will accept the Daytripper.

The daytripper is so outdated , should just be normal ticket .

 

[gnolife]

The daytripper is so outdated , should just be normal ticket .

The fact that it's on unique stock with the validity on the back does wonders for it being passed for use on buses - a driver can't really reject a ticket that directly lists the operator as valid

 

[overthewater]

Did anyone else notice the joyride from Sunday?
https://stv.tv/news/west-central/1435045-joyriders-steal-mcgill-s-bus-before-racing-through-town/

The bus was stolen from the company's Old Greenock Road yard in Inchinnan, Renfrewshire.

McGill's: The bus was found abandoned. Councillor John Shaw
Joyriders stole a bus before racing through a town and abandoning it on football pitches.

The McGill's bus was stolen from the company's Old Greenock Road yard in Inchinnan, Renfrewshire.

Thieves drove through Renfrew for more than a mile before destroying Kirklandneuk playing fields by performing doughnuts on the grass at 6.30am on Sunday.


Inspector Jim Cast said: "Stealing the coach and driving it for over a mile was an incredibly dangerous and reckless act made even worse by the fact so much damage was caused to a well-used community football pitch.

"We are appealing to anyone who may have been in the area of the McGill's depot in Old Greenock Road around 6.30am on Sunday to think back and consider if they saw anyone acting suspiciously.

"I would also urge motorists to check dashcam footage to see if the stolen bus may have been captured heading towards Renfrew. If you saw the bus being driven across the pitches or people running away from the scene."

Stolen: Police are investigating the theft.
Ralph Roberts, McGill's managing director, added: "We can confirm an intruder broke into our Inchinnan depot in the early hours of Sunday morning.

"We are working closely with Police Scotland to identify the criminal who stole our vehicle. This was an extremely dangerous act, and it is very lucky no one was injured."

Councillor John Shaw, who represents the Renfrew North and Braehead ward, reported the incident to the police.

Posting on social media, he said: "I had written to the managing director of McGill's Buses earlier to see if there was anything they could do either through their insurances or their community engagement to assist in having the damage repaired to the football parks at Kirklandneuk both during the initial theft of the vehicle and the consequent recovery.

"I received a very speedy response stating that whilst the insurances were a no-go they would be 'happy to discuss what we can do to help'.

 

[Milkboy]

There was mention up-thread about a public meeting in Renfrew over the future of the 23/X23. This took place last night - nothing firm from McGill's on what they're actually thinking of doing, but plenty of to-ing and fro-ing over who's to blame! Report here...

https://www.the-gazette.co.uk/news/17399018.mcgills-chief-clashes-with-renfrewshire-council-leader/

 

[Volvodart]

Bus Retrofit Installations Delivering Cleaner Air

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/about-us/news/bus-retrofit-installations-delivering-cleaner-air

Bus Retrofit Installations Delivering Cleaner Air
Thursday, 31 January, 2019

BUS RETROFIT INSTALLATIONS DELIVERING CLEANER AIR

Funded by Scottish government and delivered by Energy Saving Trust, the Bus Emissions Abatement Retrofit (BEAR) scheme enables Scottish bus operators to retrofit their existing vehicles with Clean Vehicle Retrofit Accreditation Scheme (CVRAS) accredited technology which reduces harmful emissions. The conversion to Euro VI standard enables the vehicles to meet the requirements of new Low Emission Zones (LEZ) by reducing the levels of nitrogen dioxide (NOx) and particulate matter (PM) produced.

Today (31 January), the first seven of 42 buses awarded funding from the BEAR phase 1 scheme were revealed at McGill’s following retrofit. A total of 23 buses have now been retrofitted under the BEAR scheme, helping to improve air quality in the country’s towns and cities. Retrofitting buses typically results in a 95% reduction in NOx gases which cause health impacts for the people of Scotland.

Amir Rauf, Vehicle Retrofits Programme Manager at Energy Saving Trust commented: “The BEAR funding to retrofit buses to meet Euro VI criteria plays a significant role in reducing pollution in our towns and cities. Low Emission Zones are critical to improve air quality and their implementation is set for country-wide rollout at pace so it’s important bus operators prepare to meet new regulations.

“With £7.89 million funding available for Scottish bus and coach retrofitting in BEAR phase 2, I strongly encourage operators to apply before the deadline of 8 March 2019. Our team are available for an initial discussion and to support the application process.”

Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity Michael Matheson said: "This scheme is breathing new life into buses and I’m proud that the Scottish Government is supporting a second round of the BEAR fund. It directly assists the older bus fleet comply with Low Emission Zones in order to help improve the quality of the air in our towns and cities.

"I am committed to continuing to support our vital bus sector which plays a key role in keeping Scotland moving as well as being an important part of the solution to the issue of air quality.”

Ralph Roberts, McGill’s Managing Director commented: “McGill’s fleet replacement policy is ahead of schedule and we operated Glasgow’s first LEZ compliant buses from as long ago as 2014. Nevertheless, the Glasgow LEZ will mean that by January 2023, 30% of our fleet will still be well within its serviceable life but not compliant with LEZ. This initial scheme has allowed 7 buses to be improved from Euro V status to Euro VI status via the fitment of exhaust after-treatment. McGill’s remains committed to achieving LEZ status as soon as possible.”

 

[Gingerbus1991]

There was mention up-thread about a public meeting in Renfrew over the future of the 23/X23. This took place last night - nothing firm from McGill's on what they're actually thinking of doing, but plenty of to-ing and fro-ing over who's to blame! Report here...

https://www.the-gazette.co.uk/news/17399018.mcgills-chief-clashes-with-renfrewshire-council-leader/

I'm not overly familiar with these services, are they very quiet?

 

[overthewater]

The 23 is not very quiet and can still come in to Breahead busy, but the Glasgow end seem to be the quieter YET its the other side which is getting all the blame..

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I think it's safe to say Stagecoah has done some damage to them with the X19 between the City Centre and the QEUH.

 

[smtglasgow]

Braehead to Glasgow on the 23 is the bit that always seems dead. Too many alternatives – First’s 77 gets a lot of the Braehead/QEH traffic, then the X19 gets the rest. We’re a long way from all the big talk about the F1! Back in the day, when it was the only Erskine-City bus, the 23 was always busy. Funnily enough, expensive fares isn’t just a McGills thing. Over 15 years ago some friends lived next to Elder Park. The Arriva 23 from the city was always way dearer that a similar distance on Strathclyde Buses.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Braehead to Glasgow on the 23 is the bit that always seems dead. Too many alternatives – First’s 77 gets a lot of the Braehead/QEH traffic, then the X19 gets the rest. We’re a long way from all the big talk about the F1! Back in the day, when it was the only Erskine-City bus, the 23 was always busy. Funnily enough, expensive fares isn’t just a McGills thing. Over 15 years ago some friends lived next to Elder Park. The Arriva 23 from the city was always way dearer that a similar distance on Strathclyde Buses.

I always think First shouldve operated the Fastlink before Stagecoach got there hands on it, between the 77 and 3 with an added fastlink service from First(perhaps an x38) could’ve sewin up Braehead, Govan and from Easterhouse as well.

A few opportunities missed, of course if McGills fares are paricuarly unimpressive could First not operate competing services from Erskine and Nethercraigs at slightly lower cost etc

 

[route101]

Suprised First dont operate along the 23 corridor to Hospital at least!

 

[overthewater]

When was the last time Glasgow Corp operated to Govan direct? Im sure the subway stop that.

 

[christopherrfc]

http://www.mcgillsbuses.co.uk/news/service-23x23-update.aspx

Service 23/X23 update
Thank you to all who attended our initial public consultation meeting in regards to our services 23 and X23.

We appreciate your feedback so far, which will allow us to put forward some alternative ideas for how to continue the AM peak portion of our X23 service.
Initial outcomes of the first meeting:

• Service 23 will have new buses by the end of March this year
• Service 23 may have adjusted frequency to timetable between Braehead and Glasgow (Erskine-Braehead unaffected)
• Service X23 will remain the same after peak times (09:00), but will also have new single deck buses the same as service 23

Going forward:


We have to make changes to our X23 peak service. The service makes a significant loss due to the very high peak loadings, needing additional vehicles that then do not get utilised for most of the day, and this is unsustainable.



We would like to gain as much feedback from you, our customers, as possible in regards to our X23 peak time services.







Or alternatively you can email [email protected] with any comments you have. You will also be able to pick up a copy of this survey on bus, please hand to your driver once completed.



We will be holding our next public meeting on Thursday 7 February, (Blythewood Room) at 7pm in the Normandy Hotel.



For those unable to make it along to the meeting, we are holding a drop-in session at the Normandy Hotel, Renfrew (Cedar Suite) Thursday 7 February from 12pm until 6.45pm, where you can come by at any point to tell us your feedback and hear our plans if this is more convenient.



We hope you can attend and look forward to seeing you there.



If you feel that you didn't get to make your point at the first meeting, or you want to reiterate something, you can email us on the specific service 23/X23 email, listed above, here.



Thank you.

 

[overthewater]

There stupid muppets, if said service get very high peak loadings, you either put on a double decker or you leave well alone. You dont start mucking around with it. Here are some brand new buses that are not fit for purpose... Service is clearly not making a loss, its the management failure to utilise the buses during off peak......... incompetence.

How about cutting peak 23s? how about buying some Second hand newish deckers? How about taking off first two Nethercraigs to Braehead runs? You would still have a bus every 15mins until 9am ( Braehead Doesn't opening until 10am) before you ask what about the college, 21/22 are every 15mins, plus these journeys are before 08.20 passing the college. Plenty tricks to save a few peak time buses, How about making the 7 every 12mins before 9am?

 

[smtglasgow]

Hmm. I get where McGills are coming from, but telling passengers that their service is facing cuts because of very high peak loadings is, erm, interesting. Not sure what is unique about the X23/McGills – surely the peak v off-peak balancing act is a problem faced by operators across the country? But it’s an interesting insight into bus economics. If McGills are struggling to serve Erskine (population 15,000), what else is under threat? Also, there’s a whole new town being built at Bishopton - have McGills thought about running a bus there, or is that too difficult?

 

[goldisgood]

Hmm. I get where McGills are coming from, but telling passengers that their service is facing cuts because of very high peak loadings is, erm, interesting. Not sure what is unique about the X23/McGills – surely the peak v off-peak balancing act is a problem faced by operators across the country? But it’s an interesting insight into bus economics. If McGills are struggling to serve Erskine (population 15,000), what else is under threat? Also, there’s a whole new town being built at Bishopton - have McGills thought about running a bus there, or is that too difficult?

They seem to be saying that the buses have extreme high loading at peak, which requires the hugely frequent double decker service, but there is much less demand off peak which means they have to put lots of extra buses on at peak which don't do anything off peak increasing costs.
Surely for Bishopston there must be some sort of developer service running soon? It seems likely that if there is, McGills would run it as they have the closest depots, and it could become a fairly good service.

 

[overthewater]

Most people in the bishopston use the train. Has the new motorway slip roads been built yet? Which mean you could dirvert the 906 via it instead of breahead. Im sure 30mins service would cover all bases.

 

[Stan Drews]

Yeah, anyone that has actually worked on the commercial side of any bus business will fully understand their dilemma, if not necessarily their method of communicating it!
If a service has a very high peak/off-peak ratio regarding PVR (Peak Vehicle Requirement), then it is very hard to make it commercially viable even if the buses are full in the peak. Essentially you are trying to generate around £100k in annual revenue from one return journey (52 x 5) 260 days of the year, if the bus isn’t required to maintain the off-peak service, or can’t make a positive contribution from use elsewhere. There are always ways to make a certain amount of additional peak vehicles viable, but they may have a greater imbalance than can be covered, so effectively some busy peak journeys could be running at a loss.
I have certainly experienced similar challenges elsewhere, and W hilst it’s a nice problem to have, it isn’t the easiest to solve!

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Funny how this is all came too light throughout the time of the LEZ being placed, seriously looking to cut back due to the costs of such a think!