Megatrain cancellation...

[All Line Rover]

I have seen this elsewhere in response to a similar situation:

'A contract was formed, but due to frustration it no longer exists. If Megabus were not aware that their allocation was to be pulled when they sold the ticket, they would not be at fault and hence the only remedy required would be to put the buyer back to their original position i.e. provide a refund.'

My view is that Megatrain should have been aware (demand in the olympic/summer period would not be a surprise to them).

And, especially as there is an obvious connection in the beneficial ownership of the entities, that the AS route could be the way to go. But that doesn't help the OP this time.

This is not applicable, as it is still possible for Megabus to fulfill their side of the contract, either by doing so themselves or by compensating the OP. You can read more about frustration here and, as you can see, its application is very limited:

It is "not lightly to be invoked to relieve contracting parties of the normal consequences of imprudent bargains." (Pioneer Shipping Ltd v BTP Tioxide Ltd)​

One of the basic principles of contract law is:

"where a party sustains loss by reason of a breach of contract, he is, so far as money can do it to be placed in the same situation, with respect to damages, as if the contract had been performed" (Robinson V Harman)​

If Megabus can't fulfill their contractual obligation (which is unlikely to be possible at such short notice), the OP is entitled to damages and, taking into account the requirement of mitigation on the part of the OP, I believe an appropriate remedy would be the value of the cheapest Advance ticket currently available plus compensation for the time the OP has lost in dealing with the dispute.

Now, if I were the OP, I would:

1. Immediately buy the cheapest Advance ticket currently available on the "cancelled" Megatrain service, and use this to travel instead of the Megatrain booking confirmation.
2. Contact Megabus asking them to fulfill their contractual obligation by compensating you for the value of the Advance ticket and lost time, or else you will complain to Trading Standards and/or contact the media.
3. Complain to Trading Standards and/or contact the media. Contact Megabus again asking them to fulfill their contractual obligation by compensating you for the value of the Advance ticket and lost time, or else you will take them to court.
4. Take Megabus to the small claims court. Whilst you are likely to win, I'd strongly advise looking into the details of this option carefully before proceeding.

Hopefully it will never get to stage 4!

EDIT: Also, do not accept a refund from Megabus as this would indicate that you are happy for the contract to be absolved. Only accept a refund once compensation has been agreed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Selling a "maybe" that the company cannot provide a reasonable guarantee it can fulfil (without them telling,prospective customers thats what they're buying into) is tantamount to fraud.

I wouldn't go that far. Yet. Fraud requires intention to deceive and this hasn't been established with regard to Megabus.

 

[steadmane]

Thanks for all the input. This is more than I expected. I'm just pretty disgusted that they can do this. I know turning up with the confirmation email risks me not getting past barrier or being charged Full/Penalty Fare but what shocks me is this is not even during the Olympics.

I am guessing once I bite I will be offered alternative bus transport and in that respect they will have fulfilled their side of the contract.

I know there a few people on here who have had their tickets cancelled but a standard Google search does not show it is a massive problem so I wonder why megatrain don't just take the hit for the few bookings affected. This is the sort of practice that if it made the media could damage them.

 

[Ferret]

Excellent post ALR, and one which covers the issues perfectly.

 

[eastdyke]

Excellent post ALR, and one which covers the issues perfectly.

I'll second that.

ALR:
Have you any evidence that anyone has ever been compensated by Megatrain?
If not then it would seem that most people give up 'in frustration'.

Please, please somebody who has been 'wronged' go to Advertising Standards to enable consideration of more proportional advertising (so that fewer people are put into this situation).

 

[michael769]

Please, please somebody who has been 'wronged' go to Advertising Standards to enable consideration of more proportional advertising (so that fewer people are put into this situation).

You do not need to be "wronged" to complain to the ASA. Anyone can complain about advertising that they believe breaches the code.

 

[All Line Rover]

ALR:
Have you any evidence that anyone has ever been compensated by Megatrain?

Have I any evidence? No.

Is it a legal requirement for Megatrain to pay damages to customers whose contracts have been breached and not resolved by the time of travel? Yes.

If not then it would seem that most people give up 'in frustration'.

This is not intended to be derogatory but helpful - could you please refrain from using the word "frustration" when not in its proper legal context, as it can cause confusion to readers.

Please, please somebody who has been 'wronged' go to Advertising Standards to enable consideration of more proportional advertising (so that fewer people are put into this situation).

Whilst complaining to the ASA is certainly an option, it's worth bearing in mind that they are as toothless as Passenger Focus. Trading Standards, on the other hand, are able to take legal action in exceptional cases.

 

[eastdyke]

You do not need to be "wronged" to complain to the ASA. Anyone can complain about advertising that they believe breaches the code.

Unless I had been 'wronged' how could I know? Am not sure that 'I have read on a forum' would be adequate.

 

[All Line Rover]

Unless I had been 'wronged' how could I know? Am not sure that 'I have read on a forum' would be adequate.

It is the ASA's job to determine whether or not an advertisement breaches regulatory codes, not the complainant's job, nor do you personally have to be "wronged" by an advertisement to complain to the ASA.

 

[eastdyke]

It is the ASA's job to determine whether or not an advertisement breaches regulatory codes, not the complainant's job, nor do you personally have to be "wronged" by an advertisement to complain to the ASA.

OK, put it this way I fail to see how ASA could be in a postion to make a determination without a real incident.

In dealing with Megatrain, I really do hope that the OP can get a satisfactory outcome without expending too much time and effort.

 

[All Line Rover]

OK, put it this way I fail to see how ASA could be in a postion to make a determination without a real incident.

The main (sole?) function of the ASA is to determine whether or not advertisements breach the regulatory codes. If advertisements do breach a regulatory code, the ASA have the power to demand that such advertisements be removed and even repealed.

The ASA do not deal with consumer complaints or Terms and Conditions. If, for example, a beauty product turns out to be faulty, this doesn't necessarily mean that the advertisements for that beauty product breach the regulatory codes, which would give the ASA the power to demand that such advertisements be removed. For example, the advertisements may feature aspects of the beauty product that are not faulty, in which case the ASA cannot demand that they be removed.

The ASA may be able to demand that Megabus remove some of their advertisements, but in no way are they able to remedy the OP's predicament.

 

[michael769]

OK, put it this way I fail to see how ASA could be in a postion to make a determination without a real incident.

The "incident" is the act of making an advert that breaches the Advertising Code

Basically any member of the public who views an advert that they believe may be misleading, harmful, offensive, inappropriately targeted at children, infringes privacy or which breaches consumer protection law may complain about it.

They do not need to have proof that it infringes the code as the onus is on the advertiser to prove that their advert complies. For example if you see a claim that you are doubtful about you can raise those doubts with the ASA and they can ask the advertiser to provide proof to back them up.

Where someone is directly wronged as seems to be the case here that individual may have recourse to other regulatory bodies such as Tradings Standards.

 

[All Line Rover]

They do not (?) need to have proof that it infringes the code as the onus is on the advertiser to prove that their advert complies. For example if you see a claim that you are doubtful about you can raise those doubts with the ASA and they can ask the advertiser to provide proof to back them up.

Is my correction correct? I am reasonably but not overly familiar with the ASA.

 

[michael769]

Is my correction correct? I am reasonably but not overly familiar with the ASA.

It is actually - that was a slip on my part. I have amended the post accordingly thanks!

 

[All Line Rover]

It is actually - that was a slip on my part. I have amended the post accordingly thanks!

Thank you. The problem with such minor slip-ups in posts such as these is that they can sometimes change the entire meaning of the post.

 

[steadmane]

I just had a look at my confirmation email from megabus and it actually says the email "confirms my reservation". So, again, I don't understand how I can not be allowed to travel if the service sold to me is clearly running?

 

[eastdyke]

The main (sole?) function of the ASA is to determine whether or not advertisements breach the regulatory codes. If advertisements do breach a regulatory code, the ASA have the power to demand that such advertisements be removed and even repealed.

The ASA do not deal with consumer complaints or Terms and Conditions. If, for example, a beauty product turns out to be faulty, this doesn't necessarily mean that the advertisements for that beauty product breach the regulatory codes, which would give the ASA the power to demand that such advertisements be removed. For example, the advertisements may feature aspects of the beauty product that are not faulty, in which case the ASA cannot demand that they be removed.

The ASA may be able to demand that Megabus remove some of their advertisements, but in no way are they able to remedy the OP's predicament.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that any approach to ASA would or could remedy the predicament of the OP.

My post has been slightly amended.

 

[route:oxford]

I am in a similar position with my Megatrain ticet being cancelled.

The journey is due to start in Scotland, having had no response today from my email of last night, not even an acknowledgement, I shall be contacting Transport Scotland for advice.

I should add that I have no issues with going via the small claims court - I have never lost a case (yet).

 

[34D]

Could some kind person link to the thread from a month or so ago - if only that davenewcastle posted a useful summary within it (which I think was along the lines that he thought that megabus were entitled to do as they did)

 

[All Line Rover]

Here is DaveNewcastle's post. I don't know how he came to the conclusion that "Megatrain are operating entirely within the terms agreed when their (exceptionally cheap) tickets are offered" as he does not offer an explanation.

I missed the point about Megabus' T&C's being governed by Scottish Law. I have little knowledge of Scottish Law - I doubt it would significantly change Megabus' contractual obligations but it may affect whether you could challenge them in an English Small Claims Court.

However, where he emboldened the statement "or other conditions beyond Megabus' control," I disagree that this would be a valid justification for Megabus to absolve their contractual obligations due to the very last part of their T&C's (viewable here) quoted below:

Refusal To Transport
Megabus shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove any customer for the following reasons:

• Government Request or Regulations - Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation, security directive, or any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense.
• Force Majeure and Other Conditions - Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond megabus.com control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported.
• Safety - Whenever refusal or removal of a customer may be necessary for the safety of such customer or other customers or drivers, including, but not limited to:
  • Persons whose conduct is disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent;
  • Persons who fail to comply with or interfere with the duties of driver;
  • Persons who wear or have on or about their person concealed or unconcealed deadly or dangerous weapons;
  • Persons with a communicable disease or infection known or reasonably believed by megabus to pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others.

The reason to cancel these bookings obviously doesn't fall under "Government Request or Regulations" or "Safety," which leaves us with "Force Majeure and Other Conditions." The claim "Virgin haven't allocated us any seats" does not fall under this section either, so I still conclude there is no valid reason why Megabus are legally entitled to cancel these bookings.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

This one?

 

[route:oxford]

Here is DaveNewcastle's post. I don't know how he came to the conclusion that "Megatrain are operating entirely within the terms agreed when their (exceptionally cheap) tickets are offered" as he does not offer an explanation.

I missed the point about Megabus' T&C's being governed by Scottish Law. I have little knowledge of Scottish Law - I doubt it would significantly change Megabus' contractual obligations but it may affect whether you could challenge them in an English Small Claims Court.

Well, Scot's Law does tend to be superior...

From memory, it is also easier and cheaper to make a claim in Scotland.

 

[LondonJohn]

This is not applicable, as it is still possible for Megabus to fulfill their side of the contract, either by doing so themselves or by compensating the OP. You can read more about frustration here and, as you can see, its application is very limited:

It is "not lightly to be invoked to relieve contracting parties of the normal consequences of imprudent bargains." (Pioneer Shipping Ltd v BTP Tioxide Ltd)​

One of the basic principles of contract law is:

"where a party sustains loss by reason of a breach of contract, he is, so far as money can do it to be placed in the same situation, with respect to damages, as if the contract had been performed" (Robinson V Harman)​

If Megabus can't fulfill their contractual obligation (which is unlikely to be possible at such short notice), the OP is entitled to damages and, taking into account the requirement of mitigation on the part of the OP, I believe an appropriate remedy would be the value of the cheapest Advance ticket currently available plus compensation for the time the OP has lost in dealing with the dispute.

Now, if I were the OP, I would:

1. Immediately buy the cheapest Advance ticket currently available on the "cancelled" Megatrain service, and use this to travel instead of the Megatrain booking confirmation.
2. Contact Megabus asking them to fulfill their contractual obligation by compensating you for the value of the Advance ticket and lost time, or else you will complain to Trading Standards and/or contact the media.
3. Complain to Trading Standards and/or contact the media. Contact Megabus again asking them to fulfill their contractual obligation by compensating you for the value of the Advance ticket and lost time, or else you will take them to court.
4. Take Megabus to the small claims court. Whilst you are likely to win, I'd strongly advise looking into the details of this option carefully before proceeding.

Hopefully it will never get to stage 4!

EDIT: Also, do not accept a refund from Megabus as this would indicate that you are happy for the contract to be absolved. Only accept a refund once compensation has been agreed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I wouldn't go that far. Yet. Fraud requires intention to deceive and this hasn't been established with regard to Megabus.

How can you refuse a refund though. I booked several Megatrain tickets for travel between Southampton and London. I did it all in one transaction to avoid paying more than one booking fee. One of the journeys were cancelled but they refunded all of them. I phoned the helpdesk number 0871 that was in the email as the tickets were now higher and I wanted to be booked onto the journeys that I was previously at the original fare. They simply rebooked me on all journeys at no charge so I got 5 free journeys with them.

 

[All Line Rover]

How can you refuse a refund though. I booked several Megatrain tickets for travel between Southampton and London. I did it all in one transaction to avoid paying more than one booking fee. One of the journeys were cancelled but they refunded all of them. I phoned the helpdesk number 0871 that was in the email as the tickets were now higher and I wanted to be booked onto the journeys that I was previously at the original fare. They simply rebooked me on all journeys at no charge so I got 5 free journeys with them.

May I asked what you mean by "rebooked?" Did they give you replacement Advance tickets?

The OP must not accept a refund at this stage as to do so would indicate that he/she is accepting the "damages" that Megabus are offering (a refund) and the contract would therefore cease. The OP would have no right to complain to Megabus later on.

 

[LondonJohn]

May I asked what you mean by "rebooked?" Did they give you replacement Advance tickets?

The OP must not accept a refund at this stage as to do so would indicate that he/she is accepting the "damages" that Megabus are offering (a refund) and the contract would therefore cease. The OP would have no right to complain to Megabus later on.

I had booked 6 megatrain tickets (6 different journeys) in one transaction. All at £1 each. So paid £6.50. One of the legs was cancelled and I got a refund of £6.50 for ALL 6 journeys even though 5 of them were still running. The other 5 journeys were now £6 or £8 so I said to them I want the other 5 journeys to be rebooked back on the journeys that I wanted at a cost of £5.50 and they simply rebooked me on those 5 Megatrain journeys will no charge to myself.

What I am confused is when can you refuse a refund because it is an automatic process. You get the cancellation email and your card is automatically recredited with the cancelled amount. If it is already back on your card can you subsequently refuse it ?

 

[All Line Rover]

What I am confused is when can you refuse a refund because it is an automatic process. You get the cancellation email and your card is automatically recredited with the cancelled amount. If it is already back on your card can you subsequently refuse it ?

If that's the case, the OP should inform Megabus of their complaint as soon as possible, mentioning that they do not want the contract to be terminated because of a refund which they never requested.

I repeat, just to make clear, that if the OP accepts a refund from Megabus, the contract is over. The OP cannot then request at a later date that Megabus issue a replacement ticket or give compensation towards the cost of a replacement ticket already purchased.

 

[34D]

I repeat, just to make clear, that if the OP accepts a refund from Megabus, the contract is over. The OP cannot then request at a later date that Megabus issue a replacement ticket or give compensation towards the cost of a replacement ticket already purchased.

If an 'auto refund' happens, the op (or anyone) can write to megabus to refuse this, I would suggest

 

[steadmane]

No auto-refund was offered, I needed to contact them by phone or email to discuss alternative arrangements or a refund - which I assume to be coach travel. I haven't reacted to the email yet because I've never seen anything like this before - especially as I received a "confirmed reservation".

My guess is that they are within their rights to offer me the alternative transport or a refund. I don't want to travel by coach as I've not travelled into Lime Street for 20 years, but am irked to now have to pay £20 more.

It's just strange behaviour - selling, as a previous poster put it, seat "futures" as "confirmed reservations".

 

[route:oxford]

If that's the case, the OP should inform Megabus of their complaint as soon as possible, mentioning that they do not want the contract to be terminated because of a refund which they never requested.

I repeat, just to make clear, that if the OP accepts a refund from Megabus, the contract is over. The OP cannot then request at a later date that Megabus issue a replacement ticket or give compensation towards the cost of a replacement ticket already purchased.

Erm, no. An automatic refund does not end a contract.

It's a bit like a bookmaker saying, sorry guys. Too many people have won the bet and it's affecting my margins. Tell you what, I'll just refund your stakes to your bank account and as you've got your money back the contract is over...

I've entered into a contract with West Coast Trains Limited through their agent "Megabus". Agency law is very important here.

The contract is that in return for payment, they will convey me from Glasgow to a station in England. They have supplied me with a reference number for the journey that I can evidence that they consider to be a ticket through their pursuit of other individuals for disembarking at the wrong station.

It's going to be interesting. I just can't decide if it's the Moneybox person or the travel writer from the Independent is the best person to talk to.

 

[All Line Rover]

Erm, no. An automatic refund does not end a contract.

It's a bit like a bookmaker saying, sorry guys. Too many people have won the bet and it's affecting my margins. Tell you what, I'll just refund your stakes to your bank account and as you've got your money back the contract is over...

That's not what I'm saying. I said that the OP must not accept a refund, as doing this would end the contract. The OP could accept the refund by emailing Megabus to say so, or by sending no correspondence to Megabus and pocketing the refund. If the OP does not accept the refund as a satisfactory resolution, he/she should email Megabus to say so.

Of course, this is all irrelevant as the OP has not been auto-refunded.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I just had a look at my confirmation email from megabus and it actually says the email "confirms my reservation". So, again, I don't understand how I can not be allowed to travel if the service sold to me is clearly running?

I would advise you to contact Megabus to query this. Understandably, we cannot answer this question as we are not Megabus. The only other people who could decide an answer would be Trading Standards or the courts.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

My guess is that they are within their rights to offer me the alternative transport or a refund. I don't want to travel by coach as I've not travelled into Lime Street for 20 years, but am irked to now have to pay £20 more.

Now is time to elaborate upon one of the basic principles of contract law I mentioned earlier.

Say you buy 1 tonne of bananas from Tesco at 50p a kilo in May, to be delivered in July. Total cost £500. In June, Tesco pull out of the contract, citing a "banana shortage," and offer a full refund. The market price of bananas is now £1.50 a kilo. If you accepted Tesco's refund and purchased bananas again at the market rate, you would be £1000 out of pocket. Tesco would be liable for this and would have to pay you £1000 in damages. They cannot simply refund the original £500 and say "OK, you've got your money back - contract over."

The same principles apply to train travel. However, I'm afraid I do not have the time to look into the other aspect you mention, which is whether Megabus are allowed to offer alternative transport in the form of a bus or coach.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

- - - - Quick response - - - -
I see that one of my researched analyses from about 6 weeks ago is being revisited in this thread, and after a very quick read, it appears that a lot of posters are taking a go at their own legal anaysis - and attempting to reach other conclusions. (Some are rather amusing!), but I'm sorry that I don't have the time right now to go through them all in any detail.

There is a lot in the past 20 or so posts which is simply wrong and/or wild speculation.

In short, I stand by my analysis in June, in which, whether we like it or not, I stated that Megabus are able to cancel booking in this manner with (relative) impunity.

- - - - More thorough response tomorrow - - - - -