Megatrain cancellation...

[route:oxford]

A colleague has contacted the Office for Rail Regulation querying which government department has responsibility for rail ticket agencies that are engaging in fraudulent behaviours*.

I'll advise the forum of the outcome.


*Let's be clear, selling a service, then refusing to provide the servce unless a higher payment is paid is fraud.

 

[andykn]

Megatrain appear to have decided to operate strictly within their T&Cs, they are confident that they allow them to cancel and refund if they cannot operate their service.

I think this is the bit I've misunderstood, I thought that Megatrain could only cancel due to reasons beyond their control. Megatrain could still purchase a seat for the passenger from the TOC.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

A colleague has contacted the Office for Rail Regulation querying which government department has responsibility for rail ticket agencies that are engaging in fraudulent behaviours*.

I'll advise the forum of the outcome.


*Let's be clear, selling a service, then refusing to provide the servce unless a higher payment is paid is fraud.

Would you care to describe exactly which offence of fraud you think it is, and outline the tests and supporting authorities that have lead you to conclude it is, indeed, fraud?

 

[route:oxford]

Would you care to describe exactly which offence of fraud you think it is, and outline the tests and supporting authorities that have lead you to conclude it is, indeed, fraud?

That's very straightforward.

We have two organisations firstly West Coast Trains Limited trading as Virgin Trains 49% owned by Stagecoach Group. Then there is Megabus t/a Megatrain, 100% owned by Stagecoach Group.

Megabus t/a Megatrain is an agent of West Coast Trains Limited.

Megatrain has offered for sale journeys on Virgin services to the Victims of the Megatrain fraud and provided them with tickets to make such journeys. Megatrain have since advised the Victims that the tickets are invalid.

Megatrain has since remained silent and chosen not to reply to emails from the Victims concerning their travel leaving the Victims no option but to purchase tickets at a considerably higher cost - securing more income for the same passenger journey.

It's not as if it's a one off. This has been a regular occurrence in recent months.

"In all three classes of fraud, it requires that for an offence to have occurred, the person must have acted dishonestly, and that they had to have acted with the intent of making a gain for themselves or anyone else, or inflicting a loss (or a risk of loss) on another."

To provide someone with an e-ticket for a service, then to cancel that ticket whilst the service is still operating is not acting with honesty and integrity. By then only offering those tickets at a considerably higher cost thus making gain for themselves is clearly fraud.

 

[oversteer]

Clearly Megatrain use their buying power to provide cheap train tickets, but then feel that they are at liberty to cancel them without notice if for some reason the tickets no longer become "cheap".

Maybe this is entirely legal from their terms and conditions.

Perhaps for some this is an acceptable risk in order to save a few quid over an advance ticket, but I think this would be madness on any journey that you had to rely on (holidays, interviews, meetings etc).

I would certainly never consider using Megatrain for cheap tickets .. relying on them could end up costing you significantly more if you had booked hotels etc and had to buy an advance or even offpeak ticket..

 

[ralphchadkirk]

You still haven't provided me with the fraud offence you think it is (fraud by false representation? fraud by failing to disclose information?), or the tests and authorities you have used to conclude it is fraud.

 

[steadmane]

**UPDATE**

I received an email today from Megatrain. Apparently the email was sent in error and my reservation is now valid. Perhaps a moderator could display this outcome somewhere easily seen. The only comment I have is that it was quite a specific email to be sent in error but whatever - Megatrain have seen sense here.



There seems to be an acceptance because it's Megatrain and not Red Spotted Hanky that I should accept that I tried to buy cheap and it failed me and by using them I am in some way gambling. This is, of course, ridiculous. I don't really see the difference in Megatrain to any other agency that provides rail services in the expectation of transport provision.

Ultimately if there was a specific reference on a rail agency's website that at any time they may cancel your confirmed reserved journey you would have to be almost crazy to use it.

Megatrain's main advertising point is that it is cheap. It's specific to a very narrow selection of rail journeys with very specific terms and conditions. If a journey you want to take can fit into any service that they offer there is no reason once you buy a ticket that you should be treated any differently than any other user a rail travel agency and no reason why you should not feel comfortable in being able to save some money by aligning yourself with their travel options.

Megatrain don't sell for all rail companies so one would assume that the companies they have this specific agreement with is in order as with any other rail ticket selling agency.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Cancelling a booking and refunding the customer in full doesn't look like a fraud to me.
No one is being forced to travel, or 'left with no option' to travel at a higher cost, or even to travel at all.

A great inconvenience, a dissapointment, an unexpected cancellation? Yes, it would be, for those passengers who have been told their ticket is being refunded.
A poorly explained condition, a poorly communicated cancellation, a poorly advertised service? Probably all are valid criticisms of failings.
But a fraud? I don't think so.

 

[Skymonster]

Rather than dwell on the issue of whether Megatrain are able to cancel their contract with their customer and the derisory restitution offered when they do (which is certainly not fraud, but IMHO is a rather poor business practice), I question the basis on which they actually sell their service in the first place. If Megatrain are selling seats before they have a guarantee (from the operating TOC) that such seats will be made available to Megratrain - which seems to be the case here - then they are misrepresenting what they are selling. They don't have a product to sell if they don't have a commitment from the TOC to provide the seats.

At the very least I think that this should be a matter raised with Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading.

Now I'm no lawyer, but I wonder whether they are in breach of the Trade Description Act By falling to reveal at sale time the fact that they can't guarantee to provide the seats they purport to be selling because the TOC hasn't yet released them to Megatrain, or because the TOC could subsequently withdraw them.

I also wonder whether their practices amount to misrepresentation... "A representor may make a statement which prima facie is technically true; however this may tell only half the story. If a statement of fact is made but the representor fails to include information which would significantly alter the interpretation of this fact, then a misrepresentation may have occurred" - i.e. Megatrain are offering to sell a service but are failing to reveal that the service is not guaranteed as the TOC has either not yet released the seats to Megatrain or could subsequently withdraw them. "Misrepresentation in English law is an area of English contract law, which allows a person to escape a contractual obligation or claim compensation for losses. If one person can show that they entered an agreement because of another person's false assurances, then the other person will be unable to enforce the agreement against them, and may have to pay them damages"

Andy

 

[yorksrob]

Cancelling a booking and refunding the customer in full doesn't look like a fraud to me.
No one is being forced to travel, or 'left with no option' to travel at a higher cost, or even to travel at all.

If not technically fraud, it certainly seems like sharp practice to me.

 

[jon0844]

Tell you what, I'm going to set up a website to offer super cheap tickets to anywhere you wish to go. You can all offer suggestions and then I'll come up with an unbeatable price. Once I get enough cash, I'll then seek to enquire about how much it will be to charter a train and then try and book it for that date.

I'll need all payments up front, and if I don't manage to get a train then I'll simply let you know on the day and give your money back. If I can, I make a bit of money. If not, no harm done (for me).

Irrespective of what the law says, and the law is often seen as an ass, it's very bad business practice and I think people should be aware of the risk involved. Maybe Megatrain won't care as they have limited seat allocations anyway and will say 'if you don't travel, someone else will' but most companies that treat everyone with contempt usually get their comeuppance eventually.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Thanks, steadmane, for telling us of the reply you received from Megatrain.

I for one found it to be very interesting, particularly this:

I received an email today from Megatrain. Apparently the email was sent in error and my reservation is now valid.....
The only comment I have is that it was quite a specific email to be sent in error .

None of us will be able to determine whether :
a) cancellations had been sent and they really had been sent in error, and that the Company would have corrected all these errors just as soon as it became apparent from internal monitoring that erroroneous emails had been issued, or
b) cancellations had been sent and they really had been sent in error but only your cancellation would have been 'corrected' when you, or any comparable passenger, had querried your own 'cancellation' while all other cancellations remain 'cancelled', or,
c) 'error' is the explanation given when any customer challenges a cancellation.

It would be extremely interesting to learn if any other Megatrain customer had been told that their 'cancellation' was issued in error and whether that good news was unprompted.

 

[Ferret]

DaveNewcastle/steadmane, call me cynical if you like, but I find it hard to believe that such an email could be sent in error!

 

[jon0844]

Sounds like they were chancing the ignorance of its customers. They've probably succeeded in cancelling many other tickets.

This way they don't risk having to state their policy and risk bad publicity. Or they were made aware of this discussion and any others on other forums.

 

[route:oxford]

You still haven't provided me with the fraud offence you think it is (fraud by false representation? fraud by failing to disclose information?), or the tests and authorities you have used to conclude it is fraud.

There's a little bit of all of them in there.

The test is easy. Is there a financial gain in the fraud - yes. Is there a consequential loss to the victim - yes.

My authority? Spent many years as a corporate fraud manager and have identified the evidence to secure arrests and prison sentences for over a dozen people for frauds totalling into 9 figures.

We'll see how this progresses. This thread has probably been flagged to the press office of Virgin & Stagecoach, my fellow victims email to ORR may well have spurred some action too. There is still a few days to go before the copy deadline for the papers.

I don't know of anyone other victim who has had their cancellation reversed.

 

[jon0844]

If they were made aware of this thread, or any other, they may well be adopting a very hasty damage limitation exercise.

The suggestion it was just an error does of course mean there's not much chance of the media getting interested unless they can locate other people who weren't so 'fortunate'.

The best outcome would be that they now stop this practice for fear of opening themselves up to problems later on - but how many people getting these emails have done anything than say 'bugger' and gone on to either not travel or buy a more expensive ticket?

 

[oversteer]

I think it would be worth making a compaint to the Advertising Standards Authority - because Megatrain do not make it clear in their promotional material that travel is not guaranteed to the same level as it would be if you booked a train with any other TOC.

 

[michael769]

I am glad that Megatrain seem to have come to their senses. Hopefully they are indeed aware of this thread and will be learning lessons from what happened, and will improve how they communicate the restrictions and risks involved in user their services more effectively in future.

 

[island]

As above, I think it would be worth flagging to the OFT as a potentially unfair commercial practice.