Metrolink Fine

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by urlando, 28 Aug 2015.

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  1. urlando

    urlando Member

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    I have a metrolink fine for not having a ticket. I didn't know about the original fine and had to do a stat dec... A trial has been rearranged. I will plead guilty.

    How much should I budget for the fine?
     
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  3. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    If you've missed the payment deadlines and they've summoned you to court then in the order of £100 standard fare plus £150-£250 court fees.
     
  4. 34D

    34D Established Member

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    Are there any circumstances you'd like to explain?

    I've asked a moderator to move this thread into disputes and prosecutions
     
  5. DaleCooper

    DaleCooper Established Member

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  6. Puffing Devil

    Puffing Devil Established Member

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    Probably a Band A fine = 50% of your weekly income, or £110 if on benefits, no income or less than £110/week

    1/3 Discount on your fine for pleading guilty at first opportunity

    + Victim Surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £20)

    + Prosecution Costs - Budget £150

    No a cheap day out and this supposing you were caught before the 13th April. If not, add on another £150 for the Criminal Courts Charge.

    Makes paying your fare quite an attractive option.......
     
  7. Camden

    Camden Established Member

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    So that's once caught travelling by train without a valid ticket, and now on the manchester metrolink too...
     
    Last edited: 29 Aug 2015
  8. CC 72100

    CC 72100 Established Member

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    And of course, those are the only times the OP has been caught.

    I recommend buying tickets as a good way to avoid fines.
     
  9. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    If a trial date has been arranged but it has not yet happened, is it possible for the OP - given that they are going to enter a guilty plea and there does not appear to be any midigating circumstances - to contact Metrolink and request to settle out of court? i.e. pay the standard fare plus their costs. It would basically be whatever figure they come up with. If this is possible it would at least avoid the matter going to court and get it over and done with. Of course, they are under no duty to agree to this and you would need to be able to pay the amount in one go I expect, but it is worth an ask.

    I am sure someone else on here would advise if this might be doable but my understanding is that proceedings can still be halted up to the moment it enters the Court room.
     
  10. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    That is correct. It is possible to come to an arrangement with the TOC's prosecutors right up until the case is called.
     
  11. 185

    185 Established Member

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    - If it's not gone to court yet, ring the number on the back of the ticket and ask nicely if it's possible to settle, £100 plus an admin fee of their choosing.

    - If it's too late, expect +/- £240 plus criminal conviction at Bury Mags.
     
  12. urlando

    urlando Member

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    Metrolink are refusing to settle out of court as they're claiming that once it's in the hands of the court, they're unable to bring it back.

    I know that this isn't the case with most train operators, but it seems to be Metrolinks policy in this case.
     
  13. island

    island Established Member

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    They are under no obligation to settle out of court. You chose not to pay the standard fare notice you were issued, and the consequence is prosecution.
     
  14. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    As Island has stated, the option of an out of Court settlement is entirely up to the TOC/transport provider, in your case they have decided they don't want to offer one and are going to prosecute, there is nothing you can do about it except start saving up!
     
  15. 323235

    323235 Established Member

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    I think Metrolink like to appear much tougher on fare evaders than many TOCs to act as a deterrent to others, so I would have expected them not to settle out of court once a standard fare has gone unpaid.
     
  16. 185

    185 Established Member

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    I think some time has probably passed from initial Standard Fare being issued by an inspector, to the chasing letter sent being out, then a court date will have been finally set after some months.

    - If there are any mitigating circumstances tell us, otherwise, I'd just see what the court hands down.
     
  17. urlando

    urlando Member

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    Hello,

    I wasn't actually responsible for incurring the fine. It seems that someone used my address and had the fine sent there. Only when the bailiffs got involved did they manage to find my real address.

    As soon as I found out about this, I did a stat dec to roll everything back.

    I've been advised to plead guilty, accept the fine and take the person who's responsible for this to court privately to recoup damages.

    It seems that even after a stat dec, Metrolink wont let me pay an out of court settlement even though this is the very first I've heard about it.
     
  18. Camden

    Camden Established Member

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    Who has advised you to accept responsibility for someone else's wrongdoing?
     
    Last edited: 7 Sep 2015
  19. 34D

    34D Established Member

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    That would be perjury. This forum CANNOT condone breaking the law like that. You will swear (possibly on a religious book) to tell the truth.
     
  20. DaleCooper

    DaleCooper Established Member

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    If you have sufficient evidence to take the responsible person to court then you are also able to tell Metrolink who the real culprit is, which is the proper course of action.
     
  21. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    That is contrary to the principles of the British justice system. If Metrolink can't provide convincing evidence of your guilt then you have no reason to fear a court date. More to the point, if you can show that there is reasonable doubt that it was you then why plead guilty?
     
  22. island

    island Established Member

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    That is incorrect. Pleas are not made on oath, and it is possible for someone to plead guilty to a crime he did not commit, if he believes that strong circumstantial evidence is so likely to lead a jury to wrongfully convict him that his overall outcome is likely to be better after credit for a guilty plea etc. This course of action is rare in this jurisdiction but more common in the "plea-bargain" world of the USA, where a guilty plea to lesser charges with a sentence of a few years is offered as an option rather than a double-digit number of years if convicted of a more severe offence.

    I am quite unsure, however, that a civil action to recover a fine paid on a guilty plea will be entertained by the courts, however founded. It would seem to me to be contrary to public policy.
     
  23. Greenback

    Greenback Emeritus Moderator

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    I don't think it;s good advice to admit to doing something that you didn't do, and to take further legal action to recover the money you will pay instead.

    I'd b every interested to hear where you got this advice.

    Pleading guilty to something you didn't do is not perjury. it's not something I'd do, but it is not neither uncommon nor against the law, or so I'm told by people within the justice system.
     
  24. Puffing Devil

    Puffing Devil Established Member

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    You should not plead guilty to the offence if you did not commit it.

    It is down to the Metrolink authorities to prove that it was you stopped on the train on the day. There may be photographic evidence from the stop.

    Take some legal advice away from the internet.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    This is called an Equivocal Plea. More detail here.

    If a court hears - "I'm pleading guilty, but I didn't do it", they won't accept the guilty plea.
     
    Last edited: 7 Sep 2015
  25. Robson689

    Robson689 Member

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    That's bloody ridiculous advice...
     
  26. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    I don't think it's the only part of that post (urlando's) that's ridiculous.
     
  27. skyhigh

    skyhigh Member

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    But if they gave your address, why did the bailiffs then find your real address? Shouldn't they already have it? I'm lost.
     
  28. urlando

    urlando Member

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    The bailiffs found my address because the person who got the fine originally used my old address. The courts were unable to find my true upto date address, but the bailiffs were (through my credit file).

    I've spoken to Metrolink and they've said that they cannot use any photographical/ CCTV evidence because they'd have to get permission from everyone within the image/ recording - which they cannot do.

    A friend of mine who's a legal secretary told me that Magistrates are not properly legally trained and more likely to accept what is being said by someone of authority, such as a conductor than they are an 18 year old person like myself.

    Metrolink are obviously convinced that they have the evidence to prosecute me and I have very little evidence to prove that I was elsewhere when the event is alleged to have taken place.

    I cannot afford to pay £1200 plus fees and a fine if I'm found guilty of something that I didn't do. I'd much rather pay a smaller price to be certain of the outcome and sleep well at night.
     
  29. island

    island Established Member

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    If there is no photographic/CCTV evidence, then what kind of evidence are they going to tender?

    You should not plead guilty if it wasn't you.
     
  30. Camden

    Camden Established Member

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    I think you could have done with specifying all this information up front.

    In terms of sleeping well at night, I think one thing you may have overlooked in all this is if you accept responsibility for what this person has done what impact it may have on you going forwards. I think you need to know what you are being prosecuted for and get advice specifically on that, as some types of prosecution are more serious.

    Also, you have another thread where you travelled past your ticket validity. If you accept responsibility for someone else's wrongdoing, what if it means subsequent misdemeanours actually by you might be treated differently, perhaps less leniently?

    And lastly, if you accept responsibility, what is to say that this can't happen again or to an even greater extent? Might your accepting responsibility for this possibly complicate your ability to show that you have nothing to do with such matters?

    You started this thread with a very short term view of "how much should I budget", when in fact I think the first thing you needed to do was find out what the chances of actually defending your good name are and how you might go about doing that. If I were in your shoes that is what I would do, and whilst I may have asked a legal secretary friend for their opinion I wouldn't be treating it as definitive but seeking full advice.

    I don't think you have any basis to believe they are convinced they have enough evidence when (on the basis of what you describe) all they have so far is your silence. If you picture the process on their part, they will probably have written and written and written, and been "ignored", so automatically moved to prosecution and just won by default because you were unaware. I feel it bears no relevance as to whether you are or are not able to defend on the basis that you say this was not you, now that you are aware.

    The point made about the photographic evidence is right. You have sought it you say, but you also say they won't provide it - so what have they got? Also, another matter for you to check out is if the position stated (about needing permission from everyone in the footage) is even correct or not. I can't advise you on any of this, other than to advise you to get advice rather than just deciding a course of action without knowing all the facts and options open to you.
     
    Last edited: 9 Sep 2015
  31. DaleCooper

    DaleCooper Established Member

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    That bit doesn't ring true with me either.
     
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