mg11 southeastern

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by gazzalad20, 12 Feb 2017.

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  1. gazzalad20

    gazzalad20 Member

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    going keep this short ive been given my court date for not having a train ticket or money from broadstairs to margate kent would i get sent to prison i have pleaded guilty in a written letter or would i pay court costs and fines
     
  2. telstarbox

    telstarbox Established Member

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    What does the letter from the Court say?
     
    Last edited: 12 Feb 2017
  3. Fare-Cop

    Fare-Cop Member

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    In an effort to save you some worry, unless you have been convicted of 'intent to avoid a fare' in the past (or have a previous very poor record ) there is no chance of you being sent to prison for a one-off, non aggravated fare evasion matter that you have pled guilty to.

    You'll most likely be ordered to pay a fine, compensation of the unpaid fare, something toward the prosecution costs and a victim surcharge (which is a kind of 'tax' on people who have been fined by the Courts.)
     
  4. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    There is virtually zero chance that you will go to prison over a ticketing matter. Especially since you plead guilty (which automatically reduces any possible fine/sentence). You'll be looking at a fine/court costs/victim surcharge/etc which typically would range from £100 to £500 depending on exactly what you have been charged with.
     
  5. gazzalad20

    gazzalad20 Member

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    this is my first mg11 ive had fines in the past but kept to the payment ,also i did offer twice the single fare plus 120 pounds compensation plus 125 court and willing to bring the full amount money in cash to the court date
     
  6. gazzalad20

    gazzalad20 Member

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    as far as i know ive been reported for fare evasion
     
  7. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    There isn't any such offence as fare evasion. You will have been charged with something specific (e.g. 'On (date) entered a train to travel without a valid ticket.') - have a look and let us know.
     
  8. island

    island Established Member

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    Your paperwork should say something like

    Entered a train and did not have with you a valid ticket, or
    Failed to hand over a ticket for inspection, or
    Travelled on a train without having previously paid the fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof

    The last of those is the most serious offence but as above you are most unlikely to face prison.

    Needless to say, however, you really need to ensure you don't put yourself in this situation again – you seem to be saying you have had multiple ticketing offences, and any more will make matters quite a lot worse.
     
  9. gazzalad20

    gazzalad20 Member

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    it says i travel with a ticket and any form of money

    it said Travelled on a train without having previously paid the fare and with intent to avoid payment
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 15 Feb 2017
  10. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    That means that they intend to pursue a prosecution under the Regulation of Railways Act. This isn't good news as a conviction will be visible on any DBS checks for twelve months.
     
  11. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I sense the conviction being on DBS checks for 12 months is the least of the OP's worries. If he doesn't change his behaviour, prison is a likely outcome in the future.

    You won't be able to get away with it forever, and sooner or later the train company will lose patience. The same applies with the courts.

    This message really needs to sink in.
     
  12. gazzalad20

    gazzalad20 Member

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    so am i looking at going in side should i pack an bag just in case or phone the court
     
  13. Fare-Cop

    Fare-Cop Member

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    Whilst you are right that a Summons alleging the offence uses the correct phrase from the Regulation of Railways Act [1889] i.e: 'did travel on a Railway without having previously paid his fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof..', I think we can understand widespread use of the term 'Fare Evasion' as a description of the offence, because it is the term that MoJ use themselves quite often. See the link below from the latest Sentencing Council guidelines.

    https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.u...sed-2017/3-railway-fare-evasion-revison-2017/


    I assume that this comment includes possible further confusion regarding use of specific terms.

    Where the OP says 'i've had fines in the past but kept to the payment' I am assuming that he means he has previously had Penalty Fare Notices, which he has paid, because he also says 'This is my first MG11'.

    Perhaps the OP can clarify, have you previously been fined by a Court for railway ticketing offences?

    If not, the payments that you refer to as 'fines' are in fact not fines, but are civil settlements and do not count as previously convicted offences so far as a Court is concerned.

    If in fact you have been summonsed to a previous Court hearing for a ticket related offence then that's a different matter and it's important to be clear because it might have a bearing on any sentence in this case.


    The important bits here are:

    i) that you had not previously paid and didn't have a ticket
    ii) that you did not have 'any form of money'

    It has been ruled that the fare is due at the time of travel and not later (Bremme [1964]) so, whether or not the facility to get a ticket was available before you got on the train, not having the means to pay confirms that the offence is made out.

    A man cannot give what he does not have. You did travel on the train and did not have the means to pay the fare.
    .
     
    Last edited: 16 Feb 2017
  14. gazzalad20

    gazzalad20 Member

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    ive had penalty fare before not issued from the court from the railway enforcement officers , this is my first mg 11 but i did plead guilty in a written letter and offer them twice single fare plus 120 on of the 125 court payment
     
  15. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    So you are a persistent fare evader then.

    I can see why they want to take you to Court.

    Good news, you will (probably) not be going to Prison (less than a 1% chance)

    Bad news, its going to be bloomin expensive.

    If you are caught again the chances of going to Prison are much higher, please learn from this, you might think its 'only a train fare' but to a Court of Law it is fraud and can seriously eff up your chances of getting (or keeping) a decent/any job.
     
  16. cuccir

    cuccir Established Member

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    You can read the sentencing guidelines for the offence involved here. New guidelines will apply if your trial is after 24 April (here).

    Breaking the Regulations of the Railways Act ("Fare Evasion") only results in jail if there are significant factors worsening it - principally previous convictions, violence/threats or other bad behaviour during the process, or an extremely high amount of money saved. Furthermore, a guilty plea at this stage will reduce your sentence so even if these mitigating factors DO push you up into a jail sentence, this plea would almost definitely bring you back down.

    As a jail sentence is technically possible on the day, you should be able to get advice from the duty solicitor at the court if you have not already got a solicitor. He/she will be able to help you with any mitigation that you think might reduce the sentence.
     
  17. gazzalad20

    gazzalad20 Member

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    no i'm not persistent fare evader the other times i had the money on its just this one time i didn't
     
  18. gazzalad20

    gazzalad20 Member

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    my court date set for 21st of march so i should be fine
     
  19. Clip

    Clip Established Member

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    Whether you had the money on you or not by not purchasing a ticket before you board you are committing an offence.

    You need to understand this and you need to stop trying to bunk the train.
     
  20. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    Sorry, but having the money in your pocket is not the same as paying your fare. You have to buy the ticket before you are "caught" - you didn't, that's why you received a Penalty Fare.
     
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