Modern Railways: LNER and compulsory reservations

[APT618S]

Apologies if its been mentioned before but tried to book a reservation for 29th May (Sat of the Bank holiday weekend) and it said none available on the train I wanted. Played around a bit and found by splitting the reservation at an intermediate station I could get 2 reservations covering the whole journey on the SAME train.
Presumably the same would apply if trying to book a ticket so they will lose revenue if somebody decides not to travel despite there being a free seat from A-B and a different free seat from B-C.

 

[Bikeman78]

How is this going to work after a football game at Newcastle when you have hordes travelling back to Durham and Darlington? The police will have no interest in enforcing it.

If it's anything like Cardiff, they'll enourage people onto the trains to keep them moving. We have queues after events at the stadium but the trains are deliberately loaded up so they are full and standing from Cardiff Central.

 

[Kite159]

If it's anything like Cardiff, they'll enourage people onto the trains to keep them moving. We have queues after events at the stadium but the trains are deliberately loaded up so they are full and standing from Cardiff Central.

Most likely they will deploy bouncers controlling access to the platforms the LNER trains are going from and divert any passengers without reservations to other trains (XC or TPE)

Can't have Granny Smith getting upset because there are some standees on her train, for it will ruin the atmosphere on board

 

[david1212]

Let us suppose you book a journey involving connecting on to an LNER service. Your first train is delayed so you miss your connection, and now you have to find a quiet spot at an unfamiliar interchange and fiddle with your mobile phone to try to book on the next available service, all the time looking after your luggage. Perhaps the waiting rooms are shut and it is raining, or you can't get a signal or your phone's battery decides to give up. Is this what you call "straightforward"?

Add to this the next available service is about to arrive at the platform furthest from the one you have just arrived at.

Option 1 - dash across, jump on as the door closing / locking buzzer sounds then worry about the consequences of no reservation.

Option 2 - add a further delay of an hour to your journey booking a seat on what then becomes the next service, and this presumes a seat is available.

The rather nicer version of this is that you've booked a through journey (doesn't matter if the ticket is split for these purposes, indeed if they do go the way of global fares it can't not be), and so the system knows you're going to miss the connection, and has already automatically rebooked you and emailed you your new connections all the way through and seat reservation details, and confirmed that they've automatically submitted your Delay Repay claim, before you've even opened the door.

OK, this rather assumes the railway learns what customer service is - but if everyone has a booked journey it's this sort of thing that can actually be really, really helpful.

This is marginally more likely than pigs flying.

This thread also covers in principle the same issues summed up by

My most recent journey on LNER was a 300 mile dash to my father's deathbed. I would willingly have stood in the vestibule all the way if necessary, and would not have taken kindly to any suggestion that I should have to wait for a later train.

The comfort of those who have been able to plan ahead should not trump the rights of those who have to travel at short notice, or whose plans have been upset by missed connections or cancelled trains.

and

Okay, but one of the main reasons I'm willing to pay a premium is because I can be more or less certain of turning up at the station whenever I want and being on the very next train. I don't mind a risk of standing, and I couldn't care less about the buffet trolley with the lukewarm drinks. I do, however, need to be on that train, otherwise I might as well fly or drive

I've never used LNER. My experiences are mostly XC who pre-Covid regularly had trains running over capacity yet with passengers in reserved seats who have paid a reduced fare for an advance ticket.

Discounted advance tickets should never be sold for trains that normally run near to capacity never mind over capacity and further they should never have a seat reservation, just only be valid on a specific train only except for service disruption.

 

[Hadders]

Don't confuse Advance tickets with discounts. There often isn't really a discount, particularly with XC.

 

[AJW12]

Should just point out that with LNER (sorry if been mentioned above, I haven't read every post), half of Coach C on every train is still deliberately left unreserved for last-minute walkups who haven't / weren't able to make reservations. When the trains are set to be busy they do check reservations at Kings X but only for the time the train is boarding with enough time to actually make a reservation; after that, they don't stop you from boarding without one. (i.e. last time I saw them in operation, they stepped aside 5mins before the train departed so not to slow down any last-minute boarders).

Those seats do say "These seats cannot be reserved" so the idea is that if you get on without making a reservation, you can sit there, make your booking, then move to that seat. But I've sat there a few times and never been moved on. I've only ever seen one TM actually walk through the train and check where people were sat vs the reservation screens, and actually move passengers in the wrong place.

Be interesting to see how that pans out though into the summer. With compulsory reservations and forecasted high demand for Summer 'staycations', I wonder if someone's going to ask the question about how sensible it is to leave half a carriage on the :00 (:55 right now) London to Scotland fasts empty, when you could get a decent amount additional revenue otherwise.

 

[Grumbler]

Should just point out that with LNER (sorry if been mentioned above, I haven't read every post), half of Coach C on every train is still deliberately left unreserved for last-minute walkups who haven't / weren't able to make reservations. When the trains are set to be busy they do check reservations at Kings X but only for the time the train is boarding with enough time to actually make a reservation; after that, they don't stop you from boarding without one. (i.e. last time I saw them in operation, they stepped aside 5mins before the train departed so not to slow down any last-minute boarders).

Those seats do say "These seats cannot be reserved" so the idea is that if you get on without making a reservation, you can sit there, make your booking, then move to that seat. But I've sat there a few times and never been moved on. I've only ever seen one TM actually walk through the train and check where people were sat vs the reservation screens, and actually move passengers in the wrong place.

Be interesting to see how that pans out though into the summer. With compulsory reservations and forecasted high demand for Summer 'staycations', I wonder if someone's going to ask the question about how sensible it is to leave half a carriage on the :00 (:55 right now) London to Scotland fasts empty, when you could get a decent amount additional revenue otherwise.

What about those boarding at intermediate stops?

 

[AJW12]

The same. The guard makes announcements at each stop saying to book one, selecting the next station stop for the train on the website. So you could board at York, book a seat from Darlington, and go sit there (using coach C temporarily if you needed to).

 

[800001]

Should just point out that with LNER (sorry if been mentioned above, I haven't read every post), half of Coach C on every train is still deliberately left unreserved for last-minute walkups who haven't / weren't able to make reservations. When the trains are set to be busy they do check reservations at Kings X but only for the time the train is boarding with enough time to actually make a reservation; after that, they don't stop you from boarding without one. (i.e. last time I saw them in operation, they stepped aside 5mins before the train departed so not to slow down any last-minute boarders).

Those seats do say "These seats cannot be reserved" so the idea is that if you get on without making a reservation, you can sit there, make your booking, then move to that seat. But I've sat there a few times and never been moved on. I've only ever seen one TM actually walk through the train and check where people were sat vs the reservation screens, and actually move passengers in the wrong place.

Be interesting to see how that pans out though into the summer. With compulsory reservations and forecasted high demand for Summer 'staycations', I wonder if someone's going to ask the question about how sensible it is to leave half a carriage on the :00 (:55 right now) London to Scotland fasts empty, when you could get a decent amount additional revenue otherwise.

All of coach C is unreserved

 

[YorksLad12]

Should just point out that with LNER (sorry if been mentioned above, I haven't read every post), half of Coach C on every train is still deliberately left unreserved for last-minute walkups who haven't / weren't able to make reservations. When the trains are set to be busy they do check reservations at Kings X but only for the time the train is boarding with enough time to actually make a reservation; after that, they don't stop you from boarding without one. (i.e. last time I saw them in operation, they stepped aside 5mins before the train departed so not to slow down any last-minute boarders).

Those seats do say "These seats cannot be reserved" so the idea is that if you get on without making a reservation, you can sit there, make your booking, then move to that seat. But I've sat there a few times and never been moved on. I've only ever seen one TM actually walk through the train and check where people were sat vs the reservation screens, and actually move passengers in the wrong place.

That's a new on on me. I knew the reservations system ususally kept one carriage free when allocating random reservations (was C, then E, then D on 125 & 225 sets - I used to always change to the mostly unreserved carriage when booking a ticket & seat) but "These seats cannot be reserved" I have not yet seen on a train. On the booking screen there are/were greyed out seats that can't be reserved, for example next to a wheelchair space.

Note: I haven't travelled on LNER since 12 March 2020 so things may be much different now.

 

[route101]

The same. The guard makes announcements at each stop saying to book one, selecting the next station stop for the train on the website. So you could board at York, book a seat from Darlington, and go sit there (using coach C temporarily if you needed to).

I had that announcement on Avanti services, guard announced those joining at Carlisle, you should book your seat using Avanti.com. I seem to recall it was after Carlisle heading to Glasgow. What is the point? Did I bother ? No.

 

[greyman42]

Most likely they will deploy bouncers controlling access to the platforms the LNER trains are going from and divert any passengers without reservations to other trains (XC or TPE)

I don't see that the police letting that happening and for an evening match, there is only one service south after the end of the match which is a LNER service.

 

[Glenn1969]

Thought there was also a late Newcastle- Man Airport TPE service

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't see that the police letting that happening and for an evening match, there is only one service south after the end of the match which is a LNER service.

That would make things easier, not harder - no reservation? You're not even coming into the station.

 

[greyman42]

Thought there was also a late Newcastle- Man Airport TPE service

You would have to leave the match significantly before the end to catch that on a 2000 kick off.

That would make things easier, not harder - no reservation? You're not even coming into the station.

I presume that your joking.

 

[Jonny]

How is this going to work after a football game at Newcastle when you have hordes travelling back to Durham and Darlington? The police will have no interest in enforcing it.

If it's anything like Cardiff, they'll enourage people onto the trains to keep them moving. We have queues after events at the stadium but the trains are deliberately loaded up so they are full and standing from Cardiff Central.

Most likely they will deploy bouncers controlling access to the platforms the LNER trains are going from and divert any passengers without reservations to other trains (XC or TPE)

Can't have Granny Smith getting upset because there are some standees on her train, for it will ruin the atmosphere on board

Platform bouncers for LNER at Newcastle would be would be particularly awkward generally, as the platforms they use (generally 2 and 4) are also used by XC and TPE as well (especially as Nova 1s do not fit into the west-facing bay platforms). Cardiff Central, by contrast, has generally segregated platforms for shorter and longer-distance services.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

LNER have just confirmed on Twitter that compulsory reservations will remain beyond the end of distancing on 21st June. Although the wording does hold out some degree of hope for a future abolition...

At the moment no. These will be in place beyond that date.

 

[Glenn1969]

21st June isn't meant to be the end of distancing. It's meant to be the earliest date for the end of limits on social contact numbers. One that quite a few scientists don't see being realistic unless we have 85% vaccinations by then. Right now the 1 dose figure is 63% and 2 doses 21% so will still have a way to go. So these rules I suspect will be in place well past that date

 

[david1212]

... half of Coach C on every train is still deliberately left unreserved for last-minute walkups who haven't / weren't able to make reservations ....

Those seats do say "These seats cannot be reserved" so the idea is that if you get on without making a reservation, you can sit there, make your booking, then move to that seat.

What a faff ... join the scrum for these seats or else be standing, find phone and I guess an app is required, make reservation, make way to allocated seat, maybe evict the person sat there who did so when the seat was unreserved.

I wonder if the system is smart enough to know when a train is two sets and not allocate a seat in the other set ... ?


Rather than either half of one coach or all of one coach being unreserveable it should be half of every coach.


As LNER is being operated by the operator of last resort I guess easy to use it as a test bed. Further now system wide there is at best very little incentive for operators to appease passengers.

 

[paulmch]

Does anyone have any experience of how rigourously this all actually being enforced in reality? Are you likely to be kicked off a train if you don't have a reservation? There's sometimes a big difference between what the social media team say and what train managers are actually doing on board.

 

[Ianno87]

What a faff ... join the scrum for these seats or else be standing, find phone and I guess an app is required,

No, just go to lner.co.uk/reserve

make reservation, make way to allocated seat, maybe evict the person sat there who did so when the seat was unreserved.

If everybody has a seat reservation, that won't happen. LNER had been turning off the reservation displays to prevent the temptation to sit in "unreserved" seats that subsequently become reserved.

Does anyone have any experience of how rigourously this all actually being enforced in reality? Are you likely to be kicked off a train if you don't have a reservation? There's sometimes a big difference between what the social media team say and what train managers are actually doing on board.

I suspect the problem only comes if you draw attention attention yourself and try and sit in somebody else's seat.

 

[APT618S]

Does anyone have any experience of how rigourously this all actually being enforced in reality? Are you likely to be kicked off a train if you don't have a reservation? There's sometimes a big difference between what the social media team say and what train managers are actually doing on board.

I must have travelled on at least 50 LNER trains since this all started and have only twice been asked. Once on the platform at KGX and once onboard I was asked if I had a reservation but did not have to show it.

 

[Ianno87]

I must have travelled on at least 50 LNER trains since this all started and have only twice been asked. Once on the platform at KGX and once onboard I was asked if I had a reservation but did not have to show it.

It's the sort of thing that's probably easiest to enforce when boarding at King's Cross, with staff checking passengers on entry to the platform.

 

[STINT47]

I would imagine that most staff would not want the hassle of arguing with people who have no reserved, especially if the service isn't busy.

 

[kez19]

I'm maybe asking something stupid and apologise, I have just reserved my seats from Dundee for June and been allocated them in first class will I still be able to sit where I am allocated? Just reading above about switching off the system? - Stand to be corrected

 

[Western Sunset]

Much of the above seems to presuppose that everyone has a smartphone...

 

[JonathanH]

I'm maybe asking something stupid and apologise, I have just reserved my seats from Dundee for June and been allocated them in first class will I still be able to sit where I am allocated? Just reading above about switching off the system? - Stand to be corrected

The point is that you will only be able to sit where you are allocated. The whole point is to stop people sitting in a different seat from the one they have reserved.

 

[kez19]

The point is that you will only be able to sit where you are allocated. The whole point is to stop people sitting in a different seat from the one they have reserved.

Thats what I thought, I get the point of people sitting in different seats but I don't think it solves the issue if LNER (or named services) switch off reservations as it leads to a free for all, but then again pre-covid with me with LNER, I had reserved seats and people already had them (not looking I guess), the whole system needs a makeover (not sure what I would do let alone recommend) but on the other when people don't look at reserved seats that are not theirs they'll still take them (even if people have rightly paid for the seat and system is on)

Edit: this was the other situation I had as well with the other one mentioned back in the thread

 

[Kite159]

Does anyone have any experience of how rigourously this all actually being enforced in reality? Are you likely to be kicked off a train if you don't have a reservation? There's sometimes a big difference between what the social media team say and what train managers are actually doing on board.

Only time I've seen a member of staff refuse people access to board at an intermediate station is at Dundee when people tried to board in coach C.

 

[Mike99]

Hi, I've read a lot of the posts on here, first 6 pages and last couple. So forgive me if it's covered elsewhere, are lets say, on 1st June for example, LNER the only operator that will have the 'compulsory' seat reservation system in place, (steering clear of the arguments in earlier posts) and to turn up and travel, say with an ALR, a smartphone app would reserve a seat quickly do it quite quickly.