More police misbehaviour: are they trying to deliberately wind the public up?

[WelshBluebird]

My worries about the events in Brisrol are that the real issues with the bill are now going to be swept under the carpet as the headlines will be about the horrible violence. I've already seen a load of comments on social media saying saying this proves we need the bill - despite such violence already being very illegal.

The specific issues aside though, it is a pretty weird feeling to know that's been going on less than a mile from where I'm sat. Have been able to hear the police helicopters all evening.

 

[david1212]

...
If people are confined to the UK because travel abroad is difficult or not allowed, then everywhere that people want to go is going to be crowded, with people who are thoroughly cheesed off, and maybe worried about their futures with furlough winding down.

Seaside resorts such as Blackpool and city centres could become a flashpoint, with people who have nothing to do but get sloshed because they have no hope and no future.

Other flashpoints could occur when crowds return to football stadiums at the start of the new season.

If restrictions are not lifted fully in England on 21st June, with the rest of the UK following shortly afterwards, it could be the last straw for many people.

Sad to say but I agree. Taking your final comment first that would just add to the second paragraph. Worst case would be a wet weekend in peak holiday season at most resort towns where little to do except sit in a pub from mid-morning. Plenty will be sloshed by early afternoon.

I do hope that there will be some holiday options with minimal restrictions July - September to e.g. south coast of France, Italy, Spain, Greece to spread the demand.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

As if the prospect of no foreign holidays was not depressing enough, now the doom-mongers at the BBC triumphantly run as ‘news’ an opinion that face-coverings and antisocial distancing will be around for years (which these freshly re-painted ‘stay 2 metres apart’ markings Brighton & Hove Council have graffitied everywhere only seem to confirm...)

Covid: Masks and social distancing 'could last years'

Measures may remain until jabs roll out across the world, Public Health England's Dr Mary Ramsay says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ben Wallace told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show that booking a break abroad now would be "premature" and "potentially risky".

 

[A Challenge]

My worries about the events in Brisrol are that the real issues with the bill are now going to be swept under the carpet as the headlines will be about the horrible violence. I've already seen a load of comments on social media saying saying this proves we need the bill - despite such violence already being very illegal.

The specific issues aside though, it is a pretty weird feeling to know that's been going on less than a mile from where I'm sat. Have been able to hear the police helicopters all evening.

That could turn out to be an issue with these protests, yes - and it is very worrying. As the government are supporting the bill as well (obviously), there is opportunity for this to go to far. What needs to happen is people to be arrested and charged under current law to show this isn't legal even now, though I doubt that will happen.

Torching Police cars and breaking officer's bones is not the answer to anything - breaking the law in protests against further protesting restrictions will most likely backfire.

 

[NorthOxonian]

As if the prospect of no foreign holidays was not depressing enough, now the doom-mongers at the BBC triumphantly run as ‘news’ an opinion that face-coverings and antisocial distancing will be around for years (which these freshly re-painted ‘stay 2 metres apart’ markings Brighton & Hove Council have graffitied everywhere only seem to confirm...)

Covid: Masks and social distancing 'could last years'

Measures may remain until jabs roll out across the world, Public Health England's Dr Mary Ramsay says.

www.bbc.co.uk

For a lot of people, headlines like that are a red rag to a bull. I'll be honest, when I first heard about Ramsay's remarks the first emotion that came was pure anger. Luckily, I'm capable of controlling that anger, and certainly I would never start trouble. But I expect at least some of these people in Bristol read that, and it made them angrier than they would normally be at this protest, hence leading to the deeply unsavory scenes we've seen since.

 

[bramling]

It seems that every time there is an excuse to hold a protest then these COVIDIOTS seize it.

Out of interest, is there an official definition of what a Covidiot is?

Sad to say but I agree. Taking your final comment first that would just add to the second paragraph. Worst case would be a wet weekend in peak holiday season at most resort towns where little to do except sit in a pub from mid-morning. Plenty will be sloshed by early afternoon.

I do hope that there will be some holiday options with minimal restrictions July - September to e.g. south coast of France, Italy, Spain, Greece to spread the demand.

Yes I think this could be a real issue. Allowing people to take foreign holidays may well likely to be the lesser of two evils, even if there’s an element of risk involved.

 

[takno]

Yes, I did see that Lothian Buses in Edinburgh withdrew all services after 7:30pm on one day last week. This is nothing new for Edinburgh and was happening in the 1980s when I lived there.

None of this is new in the sense that it used to happen in the 80s and 90s. Edinburgh, and the UK generally, is a very different place now. We may have already kicked GDP back to 90s levels, but I'd rather not see public order take the same nosedive

 

[Yew]

Well, as we've seen on here, there are plenty of people willing to fan the flames of discontent on the internet. And as we've seen in Bristol tonight, there are some people nutty enough to take it to heart and think they're achieving something by acting on the rhetoric. Nobody wins.

I don't remember paying any Poll Tax recently...

 

[Skimpot flyer]

For a lot of people, headlines like that are a red rag to a bull. I'll be honest, when I first heard about Ramsay's remarks the first emotion that came was pure anger. Luckily, I'm capable of controlling that anger, and certainly I would never start trouble. But I expect at least some of these people in Bristol read that, and it made them angrier than they would normally be at this protest, hence leading to the deeply unsavory scenes we've seen since.

Last year, at the point where winter was ending, and Spring around the corner, people happily complied with restrictions on their lives as they thought it would be for a short period of time.
One year later, there IS a vaccine, yet despite previously being told ‘vaccines are our route out of temporary restrictions’ we are back at square one in terms of lockdown.
For healthy young people in particular - who will be the last to be offered a vaccine - the prospect of a second summer without a holiday in ‘Ibiffah’ is stretching their patience to breaking point. Bad enough that the idea of vaccine passports was floated at all (they won’t get a jab until September), but now it’s being suggested that even if you get the vaccine, the entire population will be barred from travelling abroad.
With clocks going forward next Sunday, warmer weather coming and lighter evenings in prospect, we may see more flashpoints in more cities...

 

[WelshBluebird]

What needs to happen is people to be arrested and charged under current law to show this isn't legal even now, though I doubt that will happen.

Why do you doubt that?
It has already happened (7 people have already been arrested) and it is likely to continue with more being arrested as police make their way through the masses of CCTV and social media images. Policing today is often standing back as much as possible - if people do break the law then they do so in the full view of the cameras (often filmed by the police themselves, but also often using images uploaded to social media by those involved in the violence) and then the arrests etc are mopped up afterwards over the next day or so. Indeed you see it in a lot of theatres these days - protests, football violence, even general disorder on a friday night in town (on normal days). Police generally try to avoid putting themselves in greater danger if they can avoid it. Obviously if there is a danger to property or public the police will step in (and that is where injuries sadly will have occured last night), but imagine how overwhelmed the police would have likely been last night if they had tried to arrest every single person breaking the law?

Torching Police cars and breaking officer's bones is not the answer to anything - breaking the law in protests against further protesting restrictions will most likely backfire.

Absolutely agree, although I do find the comments from some people about how this violence proves the need for the new law a bit odd and ill thought out. As you have said such violence is already illegal, so what is a new law going to change about it?

 

[The_Train]

I doubt that there are any people saying "well, I didn't see that coming". It's been building for the last 12 months with the restrictions and then the idiotic Tories fan the flames by telling people they will basically remove the right to protest (unless you stand by yourself and whisper).

Yes there would have been people jumping on this yesterday with the sole aim of being violent and causing harm and damage. Chances are though, this was arranged by people who wanted to demonstrate peacefully because they are sick of the Government and sick of the police - both of whom have handled the last 12 months terribly. Had that not been the case then a peaceful protest wouldn't have been planned, meaning the violent mob that turned up wouldn't have had the cover to go out and do what they did. Whichever way you want to look at it, this is the fault of the Government and the police, both of whom seem hell bent on creating an oppressive state as quickly as they can

 

[brad465]

Out of interest, is there an official definition of what a Covidiot is?

Whatever the definition, the term almost certainly exists as a means to fuel divide and rule, where insulting others in society is paramount to this. It would not surprise me if somebody in the media came up with it, given they along with politicians are the main dividers (and I don't see a politician coining language like that).

 

[Cdd89]

Whatever the definition, the term almost certainly exists as a means to fuel divide and rule, where insulting others in society is paramount to this.

I agree. The Oxford Bus Company for ages had posters up at their bus stops entitled “Don’t be a Covidiot”, which I thought was pretty unhelpful.

 

[The_Train]

Whatever the definition, the term almost certainly exists as a means to fuel divide and rule, where insulting others in society is paramount to this. It would not surprise me if somebody in the media came up with it, given they along with politicians are the main dividers (and I don't see a politician coining language like that).

This is what has become of modern society. There is no engagement between people on either sides of any spectrum, it is simply a case now that anyone who doesn't agree with someone must be an idiot. Jonathan Pie hit the nail on the head here

 

[RuralRambler]

Sad to say but I agree. Taking your final comment first that would just add to the second paragraph. Worst case would be a wet weekend in peak holiday season at most resort towns where little to do except sit in a pub from mid-morning. Plenty will be sloshed by early afternoon.

I do hope that there will be some holiday options with minimal restrictions July - September to e.g. south coast of France, Italy, Spain, Greece to spread the demand.

Cyprus have been heavily advertising/marketing themselves to the UK. I'd say somewhere like that, i.e. a more "remote" Island, is a far better bet for a holiday than mainland Europe. Cyprus will find it a lot easier from a practical point of view to keep covid off the Island, by either requiring proof of vaccination or negative covid tests etc. They can control people's movements as most come in through their airports which aren't "hubs" and mostly for holidays etc. They don't have the same masses of people travelling over the mainland from all over Europe to the mainland European med resorts and don't have the regular high density ferries that serve Majorica, Ibiza, etc. Could be a bumper year for Cyprus and maybe one of the few places that UK holidaymakers could go with confidence.

 

[kristiang85]

Cyprus have been heavily advertising/marketing themselves to the UK. I'd say somewhere like that, i.e. a more "remote" Island, is a far better bet for a holiday than mainland Europe. Cyprus will find it a lot easier from a practical point of view to keep covid off the Island, by either requiring proof of vaccination or negative covid tests etc. They can control people's movements as most come in through their airports which aren't "hubs" and mostly for holidays etc. They don't have the same masses of people travelling over the mainland from all over Europe to the mainland European med resorts and don't have the regular high density ferries that serve Majorica, Ibiza, etc. Could be a bumper year for Cyprus and maybe one of the few places that UK holidaymakers could go with confidence.

Let's hope so. There's only two countries in Europe I haven't been to, and Cyprus is one of them - so it will be very high up my list if it is one of the first to open up.

I'm certainly saving all my annual leave until I can travel somewhere again, apart from the 7 days from last year I need to 'spend' by end of June.

 

[packermac]

That could turn out to be an issue with these protests, yes - and it is very worrying. As the government are supporting the bill as well (obviously), there is opportunity for this to go to far. What needs to happen is people to be arrested and charged under current law to show this isn't legal even now, though I doubt that will happen.

Torching Police cars and breaking officer's bones is not the answer to anything - breaking the law in protests against further protesting restrictions will most likely backfire.

Yes I suspect last nights events have garnished more support for the changes proposed not only in Westminster, but among most law abiding citizens.

 

[brad465]

This is what has become of modern society. There is no engagement between people on either sides of any spectrum, it is simply a case now that anyone who doesn't agree with someone must be an idiot. Jonathan Pie hit the nail on the head here

I watched that video more or less when it came out, and while on the losing side in the election, I largely agree with him there. While he focused on those on the left insulting the right, the same thing happens in the other direction (e.g. remoaners, woke, leftists, etc.), but the media's power base does a better job of keeping that hidden. That doesn't absolve either side of their wrongful behaviour though.

 

[kristiang85]

Yes I suspect last nights events have garnished more support for the changes proposed not only in Westminster, but among most law abiding citizens.

What is the timeline for this bill? I was only loosely following it, but I thought the votes in the commons was last week? Or is it still to come?

 

[brad465]

What is the timeline for this bill? I was only loosely following it, but I thought the votes in the commons was last week? Or is it still to come?

It's passed the second reading, now is awaiting the committee stage, although I can't recall a date for this being set. After that there's a third reading then off to the Lords.

 

[Bantamzen]

What is the timeline for this bill? I was only loosely following it, but I thought the votes in the commons was last week? Or is it still to come?

Its had it's second reading and has gone to committee stage, although in light of recent events this stage has now been delayed.

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill - Parliamentary Bills - UK Parliament

Current version of Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill with latest news, sponsors, and progress through Houses

bills.parliament.uk

 

[kristiang85]

Its had it's second reading and has gone to committee stage, although in light of recent events this stage has now been delayed.

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill - Parliamentary Bills - UK Parliament

Current version of Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill with latest news, sponsors, and progress through Houses

bills.parliament.uk

It's passed the second reading, now is awaiting the committee stage, although I can't recall a date for this being set. After that there's a third reading then off to the Lords.

Ah OK, thanks for clarifying. So still a while to go yet.

 

[the sniper]

I don't remember paying any Poll Tax recently...

Well, I thought the below rather more obvious, under the circumstances...

Yes I suspect last nights events have garnished more support for the changes proposed not only in Westminster, but among most law abiding citizens.

The vast majority of the general public will have gone from indifferent/unaware to supportive, even if they still aren't aware of what is actually in this rather needless, 'controversial' Bill... In fact, if much of the general public did know its contents, they'd probably now think it doesn't go far enough. I appreciate though I'm not inline with the train of thought that the general public are on the edge of a revolutionary uprising against the totalitarian Police state.

 

[DB]

The vast majority of the general public will have gone from indifferent/unaware to supportive, even if they still aren't aware of what is actually in this rather needless, 'controversial' Bill... In fact, if much of the general public did know its contents, they'd probably now think it doesn't go far enough. I appreciate though I'm not inline with the train of thought that the general public are on the edge of a revolutionary uprising against the totalitarian Police state.

'some' people would think that, but very probably not 'the vast majority' - most people do not have an issue with peaceful protest, and there are already laws to deal with rioting - which will no doubt be used in Bristol - e.g. Public Order Act 1986, Criminal Damage Act, etc.

 

[the sniper]

'some' people would think that, but very probably not 'the vast majority' - most people do not have an issue with peaceful protest, and there are already laws to deal with rioting - which will no doubt be used in Bristol - e.g. Public Order Act 1986, Criminal Damage Act, etc.

To be fair, I agree, the vast majority of people are probably still indifferent.

 

[LAX54]

As if the prospect of no foreign holidays was not depressing enough, now the doom-mongers at the BBC triumphantly run as ‘news’ an opinion that face-coverings and antisocial distancing will be around for years (which these freshly re-painted ‘stay 2 metres apart’ markings Brighton & Hove Council have graffitied everywhere only seem to confirm...)

Covid: Masks and social distancing 'could last years'

Measures may remain until jabs roll out across the world, Public Health England's Dr Mary Ramsay says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Surely at some point, someone will have to say, OK enough is enough, we have done all we can, we need to get the World back on track, and we will just have to live with this as we do other illnesses ?

 

[bramling]

Surely at some point, someone will have to say, OK enough is enough, we have done all we can, we need to get the World back on track, and we will just have to live with this as we do other illnesses ?

Yes I just don’t get why some people seem to relish in the idea of living under “tough” restrictions.

The only rational reason is they want to prolong stuff like furlough, but surely that will become increasingly irrelevant as time goes on (though saying that it seems to be something we’ve never quite managed to shake off thusfar).

It does seem to be a vocal minority though. It’s quite clear most people are paying lip service at best to many of the restrictions. They’re only going along with stuff like masks to keep the peace.

 

[LAX54]

Yes I just don’t get why some people seem to relish in the idea of living under “tough” restrictions.

The only rational reason is they want to prolong stuff like furlough, but surely that will become increasingly irrelevant as time goes on (though saying that it seems to be something we’ve never quite managed to shake off thusfar).

It does seem to be a vocal minority though. It’s quite clear most people are paying lip service at best to many of the restrictions. They’re only going along with stuff like masks to keep the peace.

And Mr J is saying that the 3rd wave in the EU 'will wash up on our shores, we cannot stop that' so does that mean June 21st is / maybe out of the Window, or another lockdown in August sometime ?

 

[Darandio]

And Mr J is saying that the 3rd wave in the EU 'will wash up on our shores, we cannot stop that' so does that mean June 21st is / maybe out of the Window, or another lockdown in August sometime ?

If that turned out to be the case, what they hell are we vaccinating for? Or do we then need another lockdown to protect the tiny minority who either couldn't have or refused the vaccine. If we went down that road then it truly never ends, say goodbye to everything we knew as a life before March 2020.

 

[Mojo]

If that turned out to be the case, what they hell are we vaccinating for? Or do we then need another lockdown to protect the tiny minority who either couldn't have or refused the vaccine. If we went down that road then it truly never ends, say goodbye to everything we knew as a life before March 2020.

It honestly doesn’t feel like there is any way out of this nightmare. Scare stories about more variants in full swing today.