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Most unpopular loco or unit with enthusiasts

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Daimler

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paradoxically, I don't think Voyagers are as bad as some. They sound good, and have awesome acceleration. I think the type of stock I dislike most of all is the class 321s, which are not only ugly but have dreadful seats - or they did originally anyway, and from what people say most of them still seem to.

Indeed, having lived on the southern section of the WCML all my life, I am well acquainted with the ghastly 321s. They are noisy and cheap feeling, and deliver an alarming 'bang' from the doors whenever a train passes in the other direction. As you rightly say, the seats are appalling - narrow, ill-designed (they seem to promote an awful posture), and far too low, making it difficult to see out of the window.

I well remember rejoicing at the arrival of the excellent 350s! :)
 
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Tracked

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Class 66, ugly and boring, even Class 70's look better and they get called for their appearance ...

I like the look of Pacers (142's anyway) & Voyagers, as long as I don't have to travel by them they're fine (mainly Pacers, the problem I have with Voyagers I have is that they're usually so crowded when I catch them that I end up standing in the toilet fume overflow)
 

phil8715

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I used to hate class 86's on mk3 stock especially when they worked the Royal Scot and the loco had a 100mph pantograph and the service was timed to run at 110mph.

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Whistler40145

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I really can't stand Pacers for their rough ride, always feeling like the train has square tyres!

I wouldn't go out specially for anything starting with 47xxx, 57xxx, 66xxx or 67xxx, very dull locos, no character whatsoever!

I prefer the throaty noise of 37s, 40s & 50s, just my humble opinion.
 

4SRKT

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Fair point, I just think there ugly locos although that has nothing to do with there running.

Is it a fair point? Whilst not attracting the hatred of duffs at the time, peaks were never that popular among enthusiasts, who seemed mostly to be able to take them or leave them. And I am definitely old enough to be allowed a point of view on this by Old Timer!

From my own experience of many years of studying these things, no loco, unit or train of any kind has ever been responsible for so much upset, disappointment and downright anguish to enthusiasts as the class 47. Personally they still leave me cold and I'll never forgive them for all the ruined trips of the past. This of course has nothing to do with their utility as a locomotive, before the duff-apologists start bleating. In the perverse world of diesel cranking, the more non-standard, unreliable and generally useless a loco is operationally, the more beloved it becomes.

Having said that, I would always have taken a duff-hauled train over an HST on the NESW route for example (a good example of a route where a class 45/1 turning up would be a definite bonus!). HSTs have crept up in my affections while 47s haven't, to the point where I'd now rather go on a tram than behind a duff. I think this is because HSTs were predictable: you knew a train was going to be a tram, and if you wanted to avoid it, you could. 47s turned up nearly everywhere, often when you'd gone a long way expecting rateable traction. All the way from York to Edinburgh on a freezing winter's day to do the 27s on the Dundees? Sounds like a great day. To be confronted by a duff in the bays at Edinburgh, even a steam heat duff, was almost more than one could bear. This used to happen on the Glasgow > Carlisle via Dumfries too often as well.

I'd happily see every one consigned to the cutter's torch, and I know plenty of others who feel the same. It's funny how a mere machine can arouse so much dislike among otherwise rational people!
 
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Minilad

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Is it a fair point? Whilst not attracting the hatred of duffs at the time, peaks were never that popular among enthusiasts, who seemed mostly to be able to take them or leave them. And I am definitely old enough to be allowed a point of view on this by Old Timer!

From my own experience of many years of studying these things, no loco, unit or train of any kind has ever been responsible for so much upset, disappointment and downright anguish to enthusiasts as the class 47. Personally they still leave me cold and I'll never forgive them for all the ruined trips of the past. This of course has nothing to do with their utility as a locomotive, before the duff-apologists start bleating. In the perverse world of diesel cranking, the more non-standard, unreliable and generally useless a loco is operationally, the more beloved it becomes.

Having said that, I would always have taken a duff-hauled train over an HST on the NESW route for example (a good example of a route where a class 45/1 turning up would be a definite bonus!). HSTs have crept up in my affections while 47s haven't, to the point where I'd now rather go on a tram than behind a duff. I think this is because HSTs were predictable: you knew a train was going to be a tram, and if you wanted to avoid it, you could. 47s turned up nearly everywhere, often when you'd gone a long way expecting rateable traction. All the way from York to Edinburgh on a freezing winter's day to do the 27s on the Dundees? Sounds like a great day. To be confronted by a duff in the bays at Edinburgh, even a steam heat duff, was almost more than one could bear. This used to happen on the Glasgow > Carlisle via Dumfries too often as well.

I'd happily see every one consigned to the cutter's torch, and I know plenty of others who feel the same. It's funny how a mere machine can arouse so much dislike among otherwise rational people!

Couldn't have put it better myself
 

Pinza55007

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My least favourite class of train is represented by the Voyager/Meridian - I hate these offspring of the AntiChrist so much I won't even look at a model one let alone travel on a real one.

Having been behind a class 50 on the Severn Valley Railway recently which conked out and had to be rescued by an 08, the 50s do not feature too highly on my favourite list at the moment.

At the risk of really stirring things up, whilst I love Deltics with a passion, how many on this forum know that there is a technical link between Napiers and Junkers?

Napier brough the the blueprint for the Junkers Jumo 205 aero diesel engine in the 1930s direct from Germany and even trialled the first Deltic engine in 1944 in a captured Nazi E-boat. Whenever I hear jingoistic ranting about the Deltic being a great example of 100%British engineering - I have a wry smile on my face.

An Anti Deltic mate of mine used to refer to them rather cruelly if not entirely inaccurately as "pregnant class 37s powered by a pair of Nazi bomber engines".

Maybe I had better sign off for now!

PS. I don't reckon there is much wrong with the classes 57/66/67 - they just need their silencers removing and they would sound really great! (See Youtube for the EMD G12? engines which are unsilenced or that footage of the Freightliner 66 with the manifold taken off its engine)
 

Schnellzug

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Although Napier were always fond of unconventional arrangements; look at the Sabre for instance.

incidentally, an even closer link to Junkers is the Chieftain tank; the engines in those were virtual straight copies of the Jumo. FV 4201
 

chris89

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Although Napier were always fond of unconventional arrangements; look at the Sabre for instance.

incidentally, an even closer link to Junkers is the Chieftain tank; the engines in those were virtual straight copies of the Jumo. FV 4201

The Napier Sabre engines where fantastic, and powered two of my favourite WW2 aircraft (Mosi is 1st) i personally hate the spitfire, Mustang of any type especially the D etc.

Well my most disliked are Pacers, 153's, 156's, 323s, not a big fan of 86s,87's either. Also most things that arn't GWR :P (Well the express locomotives that arn't) and not a big fan of Black 5's.

Im rather fond of the Super Voyagers and Class 70s, i prefer 59's to the 66's though.

Chris
 

43021HST

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Personally for me its: Class 376s, and Peaks altogether and that's about it from me!




According to a reliable source, peak fans were like millwall fans and I think the class and there followers are like marmite. Personally I love peaks, engine noise doesnt do anything but the shape of the body is beautiful.

Pacers I think though will go through their life being continually being hated, its the unit people love to hate. Personally I cant see modern units and locos attracting the kind of attention their predocessers did in their last years. With the exception of HSTs.

55022_kings_cross_2.1.82_dw.jpg

If I had a time machine I would love to go to that moment.
Personally I cant see the last 91 leaving Kings Cross receiving this kind of attention or the last 390 at Euston. Maybe a HST might receive this kind of attention on there last run.
 

SouthEastern-465

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According to a reliable source, peak fans were like millwall fans and I think the class and there followers are like marmite. Personally I love peaks, engine noise doesnt do anything but the shape of the body is beautiful.

Pacers I think though will go through their life being continually being hated, its the unit people love to hate. Personally I cant see modern units and locos attracting the kind of attention their predocessers did in their last years. With the exception of HSTs.

55022_kings_cross_2.1.82_dw.jpg

If I had a time machine I would love to go to that moment.
Personally I cant see the last 91 leaving Kings Cross receiving this kind of attention or the last 390 at Euston. Maybe a HST might receive this kind of attention on there last run.


Your the typical enthusiast though. You like anything that's old, rusty, unreliable, and falling to bits!

For some unusual reason I now like the the Class 460s, I think there design needs time to get use to. Although its to late now most are in storage!
 

Oswyntail

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.....
An Anti Deltic mate of mine used to refer to them rather cruelly if not entirely inaccurately as "pregnant class 37s powered by a pair of Nazi bomber engines".....
That explains a name along those lines that I remember from the 60's. Thanks

...
If I had a time machine I would love to go to that moment. ...
A rather interesting apparent age profile of those present in the picture. I suspect people will "like" those machines they grew up with and "dislike" those machines that replaced them (It looks as if there would be few in the picture who truly remember an A4). On that basis, I could not stand the 40s (being a "Duchess" man)
 

4SRKT

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Your the typical enthusiast though. You like anything that's old, rusty, unreliable, and falling to bits!

To be fair, this thread is called 'Most unpoplar loco or unit with enthusiasts', something that seems to have been overlooked in more recent posts.
 

4SRKT

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I agree, just pointing out his a 'typical' enthusiast. I'm a more 'modern' enthusiast.


You may have more in common with him than you may think, if you say he is 'typical' because he likes things that are a bit unreliable. 460s?? ;)
 

43021HST

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Your the typical enthusiast though. You like anything that's old, rusty, unreliable, and falling to bits!

For some unusual reason I now like the the Class 460s, I think there design needs time to get use to. Although its to late now most are in storage!

old locos Unreliable and falling to bits? One of the reason FGW got rid of the 180s was because chunks of bodywork would fall off, the 180s were replaced by the old and reliable HSTs. I doubt you'll see a class 66 hitting its 50th like a Class 37. Unless its in preservation.

I find anything modern doesnt move me, the worst thing about is the design of the bodywork, it always has to look stylish and striking I prefer something thats boxy and functional looking. Thinking about it 465s really are ugly units even electrostars look better.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I well remember rejoicing at the arrival of the excellent 350s! :)

I'm not so keen on the 350s since traveling from London to Crewe on one, for cheaper tickets, I will never travel on a 350 again my back was killing me for days.
 

theblackwatch

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Your the typical enthusiast though. You like anything that's old, rusty, unreliable, and falling to bits!

For some unusual reason I now like the the Class 460s, I think there design needs time to get use to. Although its to late now most are in storage!

The Deltics were hardly 'old, rusty, unreliable, and falling to bits' as you put it. They were just over 20 years old which is only a couple of years older than your beloved Networker EMUs! It is quite interesting to not that 15-20 years later, three Deltics were seeing regular service with main line TOCs and even this year, one has been hired by a freight operator when it has been short of power.
 

SouthEastern-465

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The Deltics were hardly 'old, rusty, unreliable, and falling to bits' as you put it. They were just over 20 years old which is only a couple of years older than your beloved Networker EMUs! It is quite interesting to not that 15-20 years later, three Deltics were seeing regular service with main line TOCs and even this year, one has been hired by a freight operator when it has been short of power.

I don't mean like that! I mean like anything on the network that's about to be withdrawn. One minute the enthusiast hates them but as soon as there about to go they love them to bits.

Think I went over the top with the falling to bits part... :p

 

Schnellzug

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old locos Unreliable and falling to bits? One of the reason FGW got rid of the 180s was because chunks of bodywork would fall off, the 180s were replaced by the old and reliable HSTs. I doubt you'll see a class 66 hitting its 50th like a Class 37. Unless its in preservation.
.

I dunno, i'm not so sure; 66s aren't exactly cutting edge technology, and it's cutting edge technology that tends to date quickly; the engines basically go right back to the old GM 567 of the '30s, and GMs do last a long time. Look at the 59s, 25 years old now.
 

4SRKT

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I dunno, i'm not so sure; 66s aren't exactly cutting edge technology, and it's cutting edge technology that tends to date quickly; the engines basically go right back to the old GM 567 of the '30s, and GMs do last a long time. Look at the 59s, 25 years old now.


Or the Irish 071s. 34 years old.
 

Old Timer

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To be confronted by a duff in the bays at Edinburgh, even a steam heat duff, was almost more than one could bear. This used to happen on the Glasgow > Carlisle via Dumfries too often as well..
I have a similar sentiment over 141/181s having worked all day and travelled all night over to Dublin many many years back with a fast taxi to Heuston for a pair of 121s on the 0740 Heuston to Waterford only to find, that owing to a 141/181 failure earlier, the 121s had been swiped to work that service leaving a pair of 141/181s on the Waterford service. <( <(
 

4SRKT

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I have a similar sentiment over 141/181s having worked all day and travelled all night over to Dublin many many years back with a fast taxi to Heuston for a pair of 121s on the 0740 Heuston to Waterford only to find, that owing to a 141/181 failure earlier, the 121s had been swiped to work that service leaving a pair of 141/181s on the Waterford service. <( <(

Still, I'd rather that than the plastic on there now! CIE was a good place for the unexpected IIRR. On the early afternoon train from Cork to Dublin I was once treated to a 121+141 combo instead of the booked 071. Hellfire! My biggest regret ever was the time I was at Belfast Central in 1991 waiting for a local train to Adelaide and saw the 18:00 Dublin with A class no 001 (oldest loco in service in Ireland at the time) on the head instead of an 071. This was a non-stop to Dublin, booked in at 19:55, giving a +20 into the 20:15 NIR working back north with a 111 class. At the time I didn't know anyone in Dublin and was too timid to take the train in case it ran late and I couldn't get back. Lateness was a risk I suppose with a loco with not much more than half the power at the helm. I rode the DEMU to Dunmurry instead of Adelaide to watch and phot the Metrovick growling through, instantly regretting that I wasn't on it :(

You managed to get off the 03:15 Holyhead > Dun Laoghaire boat (and what an awful experience that crossing was) and into Heuston for the 07:40? Pretty impressive.
 
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87015

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I have a similar sentiment over 141/181s having worked all day and travelled all night over to Dublin many many years back with a fast taxi to Heuston for a pair of 121s on the 0740 Heuston to Waterford only to find, that owing to a 141/181 failure earlier, the 121s had been swiped to work that service leaving a pair of 141/181s on the Waterford service. <( <(
Used to be aiming for babies and get stuffed by 071s around Limerick, were bad enough turning up on the shuttle and the afternoon Waterford but even managed to fall onto one on the evening Ballybrophy once. Much as 071s were good for a mainline thrash, that wasn't the place I wanted one!

Personally I detest skodas, the ex-WN ones especially.
 

Blindtraveler

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Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
love a good loco, particularly deezol as
due to my lack of eyesight its the sounds and smells and feeling of power that do it for me! There are a cupple of acceptions - class 86s/87s - never forgave them for 1 WCML failure too many and the 91s are going the same way! Anything else goes although agree, work horses as they are the 67s dont sound quite as good.

On the subject of smells, the 220/221s, although new and interesting when first built quickly became a sauce of anoyance to me and not just because of traveling in a public convenience. Now after 10 years, they are to me the worst things ever built and I will go some to avoid them! Also in that catigory is any diziro esp the 185s but öt 380s as havnt made up my mind yet there. not a huge fan of 156s but having bashed several non scottish examples of late, i think its just an anti scotrail 156 tìng iv got.

On the sound theme again, love a good QSK19, just without the pong!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I do not know whether or not it was their "un-British" outline with a central cab or just their total pathetic reliability in the mid 1960's, but both the class 14 and the class 17 diesel locomotives were the worst post-steam traction that I can remember. I think that the class 14 had a top speed of only 40mph. I am not sure but I think that an example of both classes made it to the preservation stage.

If If had to pick a type of diesel locomotive which would, when compared to other diesel locomotives, be the "class 142 Pacer" equivalent of DMU, I would nominate both the class 14 and the class 17 as joint contenders for that title.
 

atomicdanny

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For me it has to be the Class 376, especially with its horrible seats as well as the Class 319 and 66, the latter being the worst loco to exist, its just a box on wheels! Although not really keen on the Class 375s or 377s, not as nice as the 411s or 365s that used to go on my local line (between Faversham and Dover) (although why do people call the whole class of electrostars 377s? )
 
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