Most unpopular loco or unit with enthusiasts

[Schnellzug]

I do not know whether or not it was their "un-British" outline with a central cab or just their total pathetic reliability in the mid 1960's, but both the class 14 and the class 17 diesel locomotives were the worst post-steam traction that I can remember. I think that the class 14 had a top speed of only 40mph. I am not sure but I think that an example of both classes made it to the preservation stage.

If If had to pick a type of diesel locomotive which would, when compared to other diesel locomotives, be the "class 142 Pacer" equivalent of DMU, I would nominate both the class 14 and the class 17 as joint contenders for that title.

The class 14s were designed for shunting and light freight haualge, the last locos built at Swindon in fact; I don't think there was much wrong with their reliability per se, they certaintly seemed to find plenty of new owners in industry (and that's why a lot survived into preservation). I think the main shortcoming with them was that BR were building them with one hand just as they were withdrawing the kind of traffic they were designed for with the other.
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* As an aside to that, (and this may be moving away from 'least popular' to 'least succesful'); they both had Paxman engines, the 14 a V6 and the 17 2 x horizontal 6, and it does rather look as if, if the Valenta hadn't been chosen for the HST, Paxman's reputation would be rather different now; if you think that they were used in class 14, 15, 17, to re-engine class 21s (and, it seems, was hardly much of an improvement), and the class 74s, all of which make a 180 look like a Desiro in terms of reliability, Paxman might rather have been consigned to the bargain bin of history, don't people think?

 

[4SRKT]

* As an aside to that, (and this may be moving away from 'least popular' to 'least succesful'); they both had Paxman engines, the 14 a V6 and the 17 2 x horizontal 6, and it does rather look as if, if the Valenta hadn't been chosen for the HST, Paxman's reputation would be rather different now; if you think that they were used in class 14, 15, 17, to re-engine class 21s (and, it seems, was hardly much of an improvement), and the class 74s, all of which make a 180 look like a Desiro in terms of reliability, Paxman might rather have been consigned to the bargain bin of history, don't people think?

Didn't Ruston-Paxman take over/merge with English Electric sometime in the 1970s though, meaning that the 'Ruston' range by the time of Valentas was basically the old EE stud? Would this make an HST power car a form of souped-up 37?

 

[Schnellzug]

Didn't Ruston-Paxman take over/merge with English Electric sometime in the 1970s though, meaning that the 'Ruston' range by the time of Valentas was basically the old EE stud? Would this make an HST power car a form of souped-up 37?

pretty much so, i think, yes. Those high speed catamaran ferries are powered by Rustons that are essentially souped up class 56 engines, i think.

 

[Rugd1022]

I do not know whether or not it was their "un-British" outline with a central cab or just their total pathetic reliability in the mid 1960's, but both the class 14 and the class 17 diesel locomotives were the worst post-steam traction that I can remember. I think that the class 14 had a top speed of only 40mph. I am not sure but I think that an example of both classes made it to the preservation stage.

If If had to pick a type of diesel locomotive which would, when compared to other diesel locomotives, be the "class 142 Pacer" equivalent of DMU, I would nominate both the class 14 and the class 17 as joint contenders for that title.

The 14s designed maximum speed of 40mph was so they could work inter yard trips, they didn't really need any more speed than that, which would have required different gearing anyway. They were definitely built too late though, the WR Board didn't want them in the first place! On the plus side, they were much more reliable than the 17s.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On the plus side, they were much more reliable than the 17s.

I am glad to see you added an emoticon after that statement. If I had to pick the worse of the two, it would definitely be the Class 17, which to my thinking were about a similarity such as.....
Class 17 are to diesel locomotives, what Class 142 Pacers are to DMU

Of course, this is my personal observation only and should be seen as such.

 

[43021HST]

The 14s designed maximum speed of 40mph was so they could work inter yard trips, they didn't really need any more speed than that, which would have required different gearing anyway. They were definitely built too late though, the WR Board didn't want them in the first place! On the plus side, they were much more reliable than the 17s.

Ive often wondered why BR got rid of their class 14s and then a while later BR re-geared some 08s to make 09s, class 14s would be ideal for that work. Class 14s would have been ideal for the southern region or where shunters have to move quickly to stay out of the mainline trains.

 

[4SRKT]

Non standard hydraulic transmission probably played a part in their demise I guess.

 

[317666]

One of the trains I dislike the most is the Class 37 - they're decent locos but if you ask me they're ridiculously over-rated. I don't find Voyagers to be as bad as some people make out, I'd definitely prefer them to Class 170s...

 

[4SRKT]

One of the trains I dislike the most is the Class 37 - they're decent locos but if you ask me they're ridiculously over-rated. I don't find Voyagers to be as bad as some people make out, I'd definitely prefer them to Class 170s...

<prepares for storms of outrage>

 

[Michael.Y]

ridiculously over-rated.

In what way is a British well built, long-serving, popular locomotive with an instantly recognisable iconic design "over-rated"?

That's like calling Paul McCartney or Cliff Richard "over-rated", because they too are a popular, long-serving, instantly recognisable British iconic locomotives...er....people...

 

[Oswyntail]

In what way is a British well built, long-serving, popular locomotive with an instantly recognisable iconic "design" "over-rated"?
......

Because, in common with all the EE classes, they are bloody ugly ?

 

[317666]

In what way is a British well built, long-serving, popular locomotive with an instantly recognisable iconic design "over-rated"

There are many similar locos that are also of iconic design and are long-serving, I don't see what's so special about 37s. They're good, but there's plenty of others too. Although I prefer a lot of units to locos so maybe I'm missing something

 

[Techniquest]

I think you are! 37s are great machines, and whilst they're very very popular that's not a reason to dislike them!

As for Voyagers being preferred over 170s, I've booked you an appointment with the head examination team in Cambridge

 

[Whistler40145]

37s over-rated, they are the most versatile British built loco ever to run on the Mainline.

Personally, I would say 47s are over-rated, they are the dullest locos around!

 

[Minilad]

I think all this thread proves is that everyone has a different opinion on what is good or bad !

 

[Blindtraveler]

and also that some people truly do like voyagers! although I dont, having spoken with XC driver on this subject at the Birmingham meal last week it would appear they are good bits of kit to work on.

 

[Schnellzug]

i have to admit to not hating voyagers, although you do have to make sure you've got the right seat (by a window rather than a pillar, so you've got a bit of extra shoulder room). I think they sound rather good, and performance is ace.

 

[Drsatan]

i have to admit to not hating voyagers, although you do have to make sure you've got the right seat (by a window rather than a pillar, so you've got a bit of extra shoulder room). I think they sound rather good, and performance is ace.

True, they accelerate more quickly than the HSTs and 47s they replaced, at the expense of passenger comfort In particular, the air smells foul on XC's Voyagers; this problem seems to have been fixed on Virgin's though. Why oh why aren't train interiors ergonomically tested these days!


As you may have noticed, I don't really like Voyagers: in fact they're my least favourite multiple unit along with Pacers. My least favourite EMU would have to be the 377 subclass with 3+2 seating and very hard seats. Despite having seats that line up with the windows, it's difficult to enjoy the views of the South Downs if your posterior is numb!

 

[Blindtraveler]

agree, a future refit of these sets should include better seating. Agree with earlier point about 22x units sounding good, the QSK19 does, to me sound businesslike but know some would not agree.

 

[466.networkers]

I'm amazed no-one's mentioned those most disastrous of units: the Class 508/2

 

[150222]

As an enthusiast i hate 185's. Although i like travelling on them they look rather bland now as they are all identical.
(exept the capital of culture one. )

 

[4SRKT]

This was turning into some sort of perversion-filled Voyager love-in until 150222 thankfully weighed in with some common sense 185 hatred!

 

[YorkshireBear]

got to agree, from a comfort perspective they are not too bad but i just cant stand them, they roll around so much and as a future pway engineer i am aware of what they do to the track!

 

[Chester025]

This was turning into some sort of perversion-filled Voyager love-in until 150222 thankfully weighed in with some common sense 185 hatred!

Don't really see what your hatred is for them? I think they are quite decent, nice interiors and plenty of power, could do with a fourth trailer being added as the Pennine services do get busy but apart from that they are good trains.

350/1s are good as well for that matter!

 

[4SRKT]

Don't really see what your hatred is for them? I think they are quite decent, nice interiors and plenty of power, could do with a fourth trailer being added as the Pennine services do get busy but apart from that they are good trains.

350/1s are good as well for that matter!

As with all enthusiast likes and dislikes, it doesn't have to be rational! Heaven knows where you got that idea from

 

[Jedipickles]

For me and i'm glad most of them are no longer around.

The awful Class 58!
Also not to keen on the Class 42

 

[Hydro]

I don't see what's so special about 37s

I'll not lie, they sound like God's rage. Last night I was on a pair that sounded like they were going to split Stansted Airport tunnel open to the sky when the throttle was opened.

 

[Whistler40145]

How can anyone say Class 37s are awful!

We have so many other non British built locos e.g. Classes 59, 66 & 67, what entertainment do they provide in the audible department, they simply don't!

What could be better than a pair of Class 37s climbing on wet rails, noise to ones ears.

This is just my opinion.

 

[Jedipickles]

What could be better than a pair of Class 37s climbing on wet rails, noise to ones ears.

A pair of Class 20s

Or a Steamer

 

[Whistler40145]

A pair of 20s would be rather loud, but are more likely to go pop climbing uphill!