Moving to London: Help me use the tube

[urbophile]

I've heard that not many young people live south of the Thames

???!!! Try Brixton any time around midnight.

 

[TheNewNo2]

The Northern Line is the most reliable line in terms of days below target (beating the Waterloo & City which has nothing that can break) and, I believe, distance between train failures. I'm not entirely sure on that last one, but it's either Northern or Victoria.

If you want to use the Northern Line, then trains on the Bank branch will serve Morden to High Barnet only during peak hours, and, I believe, the north end is less busy than the south end.

It shouldn't really matter which station you arrive at - Bank, Liverpool Street, Moorgate, Aldgate, Fenchurch Street, Cannon Street, Blackfriars... The City is called the "Square Mile" for a reason - it's not that big! None of those stations are likely to be more than 10mins walk from your office, so if you want to avoid changing trains your area of living extends to Norwich, Bedford, Watford, Dover, Brighton, Southend...

I would disagree with those who say you should pick a place to live then work out the logistics. You have to decide how much of a commute you are willing to put up with. For me it's none - I want to walk to work, so I live in the Isle of Dogs and have a 20min walk in to my office (past a friendly cat). If commuting is something you're happy to do then go for it, but be aware that it is miserable.

 

[Mojo]

If you want to use the Northern Line, then trains on the Bank branch will serve Morden to High Barnet only during peak hours, and, I believe, the north end is less busy than the south end.

It changed as part of timetable 55; in the morning peak, Northbound trains via the City go to the Edgware branch and West End trains go to the Barnet branch. This only applies in the Northbound direction though, generally speaking, Southbound trains run alternately via the City and via the West End.

 

[TheNewNo2]

It changed as part of timetable 55; in the morning peak, Northbound trains via the City go to the Edgware branch and West End trains go to the Barnet branch. This only applies in the Northbound direction though, generally speaking, Southbound trains run alternately via the City and via the West End.

Bloody WTT55, nothing but trouble...

 

[Abpj17]

Why only 4 not 5 days a week?

Your company might give you an annual season ticket loan - it's worth asking.

Northern line isn't great - particularly if you are doing 9 -5, those stations are rammed and it can take 15 minutes to get down to the platform alone at Bank. Living on the right branch helps too (I didn't). Some of the cheapest areas are out to the east on the central line. Or SE as telstarbox says.It's also common for people to do flat/house shares on the Isle of Dogs.

You're probably still best off getting a season ticket for your core/regular travel. And use contactless for occassional trips to the outer zones.

As plcd says, some of the tube maps are misleading. Stations that look a long way apart are actually really close and vice versa. So look at line on google maps too, where you can see the actual routes.

If you're a graduate, I doubt you'll actually be on anything like 9-5 hours…

 

[telstarbox]

To clarify, you can have a season ticket and a PAYG balance on the same Oyster card, so no need to use contactless as well.

 

[infobleep]

and I've heard that not many young people live south of the Thames

Haha...quality. Just go up to the top of the Shard and look North then the other way....south of the river is like the dark side of the moon... .

Just one thing to remember..don't stand on the left hand side of an escalator...this is London so learn the rules...sharpish...

Except where they ask people on both sides of the escalators to stand.

Also walk on the left when I the tube, except where the signs say to walk on the right!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Moving to London is a major challenge - as I found out a long time ago from deepest Wales - I ended up in what was then affordable Finchley Road and then South Wimbledon. Quite a daunting experience to begin with - but a well trodden path.

I would suggest the Ilford area for what it is worth ...

 

[rebmcr]

To clarify, you can have a season ticket and a PAYG balance on the same Oyster card, so no need to use contactless as well.

And it's planned in a few years to be able to link a season ticket to your contactless card, thus sounding the death knell for Oyster.

 

[deltic]

And it's planned in a few years to be able to link a season ticket to your contactless card, thus sounding the death knell for Oyster.

Wonder how long till only concessionary passes and Zip cards remain on Oyster

 

[MikeWh]

And it's planned in a few years to be able to link a season ticket to your contactless card, thus sounding the death knell for Oyster.

Wonder how long till only concessionary passes and Zip cards remain on Oyster

And the fact that they'll need to keep the system going is the reason why Oyster won't die. They also haven't worked out how to do railcard discounts on contactless yet. The system can't write to the contactless card so how does an inspector know to ask to see the accompanying railcard?

 

[Camden]

Would probably help if you post how much you can afford to spend on rent more than anything.

Ideally you'll want as close to the centre as possible for as little as you have to pay (which can be an awful lot!).

I wouldn't worry about being on specific lines if you are fairly close in to the centre, as often it is not far at all to walk to the line you need rather than changing. Look at price/desirability first, then check the practicality, otherwise you'll probably end up ruling loads of places out unnecessarily.

 

[rebmcr]

The system can't write to the contactless card so how does an inspector know to ask to see the accompanying railcard?

The only way I can think of, is to use a full-coverage network link back to the control centre for all the RPI's readers. That would obviously rely on fitting out the deep tubes so I wouldn't expect it to be anytime soon. Perhaps using a renewed signalling system for the backhaul (like Metrolink's WiFi does in Manchester) would be most likely.

 

[anti-pacer]

You could do a lot worse than Ilford.

It's where the East End meets suburbia, there's good shopping, some nice properties (north side), a lovely park and easy access to roads such as the A12, A13, North Circular, and the M11. It's also cheaper than many parts of London.

Train wise, getting to work. TfL Rail operates every 10 minutes to Liverpool Street in about 15-20 minutes. From nearby Gants Hill, the Central Line tube takes you to Liverpool Street, Bank, St Paul's in less than 30 minutes.

P.S. Some people think it's in Essex.... it isn't. Not anymore!

 

[Busaholic]

You could do a lot worse than Ilford.

It's where the East End meets suburbia, there's good shopping, some nice properties (north side), a lovely park and easy access to roads such as the A12, A13, North Circular, and the M11. It's also cheaper than many parts of London.

Train wise, getting to work. TfL Rail operates every 10 minutes to Liverpool Street in about 15-20 minutes. From nearby Gants Hill, the Central Line tube takes you to Liverpool Street, Bank, St Paul's in less than 30 minutes.

P.S. Some people think it's in Essex.... it isn't. Not anymore!

And, from 2018. direct trains from Ilford to central London every five minutes on Crossrail - you might even be able to get a seat at Ilford!

 

[Denzo]

Why only 4 not 5 days a week?

Your company might give you an annual season ticket loan - it's worth asking.

Northern line isn't great - particularly if you are doing 9 -5, those stations are rammed and it can take 15 minutes to get down to the platform alone at Bank. Living on the right branch helps too (I didn't). Some of the cheapest areas are out to the east on the central line. Or SE as telstarbox says.It's also common for people to do flat/house shares on the Isle of Dogs.

You're probably still best off getting a season ticket for your core/regular travel. And use contactless for occassional trips to the outer zones.

As plcd says, some of the tube maps are misleading. Stations that look a long way apart are actually really close and vice versa. So look at line on google maps too, where you can see the actual routes.

If you're a graduate, I doubt you'll actually be on anything like 9-5 hours…

My job is 9-5, four days a week

 

[anti-pacer]

And, from 2018. direct trains from Ilford to central London every five minutes on Crossrail - you might even be able to get a seat at Ilford!

Very good point.

 

[LLivery]

Value for money go South London. From my point of view its better anyway, we South Londoners can get a bit sumg when the tube is on strike and we can still get into work. London Bridge station is just across the river from the city (10 min walk max from Fenchurch Street), Waterloo has the Waterloo & City line direct to Bank and of course Cannon Street is in the city itself. Problem with along the Northern Line in South is that it is absolutely rammed but granted Clapham and Battersea are nice areas. Areas I would recommend in zone 3 are Dulwich, Sydenham, Forest Hill, Greenwich, Balham, Wimbledon, Earlsfield, Barnes, Mortlake and now even Lewisham. Though as a young person must say most of those areas are family orientated. Lewisham does have new 30+ buildings being built right next to the station.

North of the river personally I would go for Stratford. Next to some of the biggest parks, shopping centres and stations in London. 7 mins into Liverpool St by Abellio GA and TfL Rail, plus the Central Line takes a bit longer. Depending on how nice of an area you want, I'd just stick to the lines both train and tube from Liverpool Street/Tower Hill/Fenchurch Street/Moorgate and look at the areas. Personally I'm not a fan of Camden - rather Kentish Town or Highbury & Islington, but everyone has their own ideals.

Might sound a bit crazy but if you did look at Outer Suburbs, Croydon I would recommend. May not have the best reputation in the world, but the whole place is changing - Westfield opening in a few years, new buildings and a decent night life. A fast train into London Bridge takes just as long as a tube from zone 3.

Please don't make the mistake thinking places without a "SE, SW, E, etc" postcode are not London. IG, RM, EN, BR are very much London and in many cases far better value for money. I am young and I'd never live in zone 1 or 2 - far to busy and cramped.

Good luck

 

[urpert]

Just wanted to endorse LeeLivery's post above. If you want relative bargains you have to look beyond the tube map.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If anything the Northern line is probably one of the most reliable lines, it's very rare that you have problems. Though if commuting you'd probably want to be living on the right side of the river as it can get very busy south of Bank!

It's not much better north of Bank either. I used to live in Muswell Hill and after about 7.45am I was struggling to board a Bank branch train at Highgate; after Archway it was usually impossible. Half the time I ended up getting a Charing Cross branch train then a bus Euston-Angel, just to avoid the worst of it. The Edgware branch is a bit quieter though. Coming back at 5.15 wasn't too bad, the trains tended to empty out at Euston so if you could elbow on a train you'd pretty much got it sorted. Experimented with the Great Northern down to Essex Road or Old Street but, to be honest, it was just as crowded as the tube as far as High & I.

I really enjoyed my time in Muswell Hill (and Crouch End). Definitely not the cheapest part of town, but then it is rather leafy indeed, but you get a bit more for your money being away from the tube. And I really liked not *having* to go into town for fun on a weekend if I didn't want to.

 

[Mojo]

It's not much better north of Bank either. I used to live in Muswell Hill and after about 7.45am I was struggling to board a Bank branch train at Highgate; after Archway it was usually impossible.

I don't know how long ago you used to do that journey but don't forget that there has recently been an upgrade on the Northern line, delivering a 20% increase in capacity. Living North of the river is certainly much better than what I hear goes on South of the river!

I live in the area you mention, and whilst the Northern line is still busy, the only time I've ever seen customers struggle to board a train is in the rare periods of disruption, and indeed only once saw this at Highgate.

 

[Tom B]

I don't know how long ago you used to do that journey but don't forget that there has recently been an upgrade on the Northern line, delivering a 20% increase in capacity. Living North of the river is certainly much better than what I hear goes on South of the river!

I live in the area you mention, and whilst the Northern line is still busy, the only time I've ever seen customers struggle to board a train is in the rare periods of disruption, and indeed only once saw this at Highgate.

Sorry Mojo - it's a regular feature of Archway in the peak hours. Many commuters from Highgate, Muswell Hil and Crouch End will take buses to Archway because it's in zone 2 thus they can save on their travelcard!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Sorry Mojo - it's a regular feature of Archway in the peak hours. Many commuters from Highgate, Muswell Hil and Crouch End will take buses to Archway because it's in zone 2 thus they can save on their travelcard!

Yup, I was one of them when I was in the Hill proper, if you have to get a bus anyway may as well save a bit of cash! Only changed when I moved within a five minute walk of Highgate tube.

It doesn't get as bad as Clapham, don't get me wrong, and it is better since they increased the frequency from one train every 6 minutes to one every 5 minutes.

But then anywhere in London is rough between 8am and 9am.

 

[Clip]

Value for money go South London. From my point of view its better anyway, we South Londoners can get a bit sumg when the tube is on strike and we can still get into work. London Bridge station is just across the river from the city (10 min walk max from Fenchurch Street), Waterloo has the Waterloo & City line direct to Bank and of course Cannon Street is in the city itself. Problem with along the Northern Line in South is that it is absolutely rammed but granted Clapham and Battersea are nice areas. Areas I would recommend in zone 3 are Dulwich, Sydenham, Forest Hill, Greenwich, Balham, Wimbledon, Earlsfield, Barnes, Mortlake and now even Lewisham. Though as a young person must say most of those areas are family orientated. Lewisham does have new 30+ buildings being built right next to the station.

North of the river personally I would go for Stratford. Next to some of the biggest parks, shopping centres and stations in London. 7 mins into Liverpool St by Abellio GA and TfL Rail, plus the Central Line takes a bit longer. Depending on how nice of an area you want, I'd just stick to the lines both train and tube from Liverpool Street/Tower Hill/Fenchurch Street/Moorgate and look at the areas. Personally I'm not a fan of Camden - rather Kentish Town or Highbury & Islington, but everyone has their own ideals.

Might sound a bit crazy but if you did look at Outer Suburbs, Croydon I would recommend. May not have the best reputation in the world, but the whole place is changing - Westfield opening in a few years, new buildings and a decent night life. A fast train into London Bridge takes just as long as a tube from zone 3.

Please don't make the mistake thinking places without a "SE, SW, E, etc" postcode are not London. IG, RM, EN, BR are very much London and in many cases far better value for money. I am young and I'd never live in zone 1 or 2 - far to busy and cramped.

Good luck

Id echo this for new people into town. South you get a lot more for your money really and even if southern does go tits up you still have the overground. Our lass wants to move there but Im too attached to the Stow to want to move that far away from it.

 

[JackTheLad]

I've heard that not many young people live south of the Thames

I don't know who's feeding you your information but we do have schools, colleges, and uni's in South London! In fact some of the biggest like Goldsmiths, Greenwich, Roehampton, Kingston etc. I'm in my 20s and adore living in South East London!

If you're working in the City then South East London ain't a bad shout! Although we don't really have the tube, our trains are very good and you're always within walking distance of a train station with frequent trains all day everyday. In some locations you are even walking distance from stations in the same area all on different lines, all going to different London Termini.

May I suggest looking on the Orpington line out of Cannon St/Charing Cross/Blackfriars? Places like New Cross, Lewisham, Hither Green, Grove Park, even Orpington itself are all awesome commuter places to live especially for young people and all offering fast and frequent trains to the City/West End.

The last Orpington train from London Charing Cross/London Cannon St of an evening is 00:48/01:02 which is far later than the tube and the first ones in the morning just before 5am. You'll be the envy of all your mates having to leave the pub early rushing to catch their last tubes home before midnight, when you have your last trains a lot later! Plus all those places I've mentioned have nightbus routes for the 3 hours you don't have a train!

Don't overlook SE London, even if it's a BR/DA/CR postcode! Remember if it's in zones 1-6 it'll be London, even if it has Kent/Surrey in the address (which is in reference to the postal system only, not the actual counties themselves) they are all now part of the county of Greater London.

 

[Deerfold]

The last Orpington train from London Charing Cross/London Cannon St of an evening is 00:48/01:02 which is far later than the tube and the first ones in the morning just before 5am. You'll be the envy of all your mates having to leave the pub early rushing to catch their last tubes home before midnight, when you have your last trains a lot later! Plus all those places I've mentioned have nightbus routes for the 3 hours you don't have a train!

I don't know if your friends were trying to think up reasons to go home early, but where has a last tube before midnight?

Last tubes on most lines pass through central London around 00:30 - not far off when you'd have to go to get a tube to connect with your last trains.

Thameslink may be worth a mention with an hourly service all night (except Saturday night!), due to be doubled soon.

 

[radamfi]

Thameslink may be worth a mention with an hourly service all night (except Saturday night!), due to be doubled soon.

If all night every night train service is important then you are left with Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Purley, Horley, Gatwick Airport and Three Bridges. Although of course buses run 24/7 in most areas that the OP is interested in anyway.

 

[philthetube]

I don't know if your friends were trying to think up reasons to go home early, but where has a last tube before midnight?

Last tubes on most lines pass through central London around 00:30 - not far off when you'd have to go to get a tube to connect with your last trains.

Thameslink may be worth a mention with an hourly service all night (except Saturday night!), due to be doubled soon.

Roding valley?

 

[Abpj17]

I'm still astonished there is a 9-5, 4 days a week grad job...

North Thameslink is better than south if you want true 24/7 e.g. West Hampstead, Kentish Town, etc.

 

[urpert]

I'm still astonished there is a 9-5, 4 days a week grad job...

North Thameslink is better than south if you want true 24/7 e.g. West Hampstead, Kentish Town, etc.

Personally I wonder if a) we're being wound up or b) it's a "9-5" job.