National Grid warns of possible blackouts

[Yew]

It's worth noting that in the original article, it says that these cuts were a result of "unlikely scenarios" so this feels like parallels to COVID fear mongering.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

How many pubs now rely on electric pumps to get the beer? Real ale on handpull should be OK, it might even come at a decent temperature if the cellar coolers for the l*g*r are out.

I mentioned elsewhere, I bought a modest supply of rechargeable work lights when the government started saying 'there will be no power cuts'. I don't need warning twice! Now that particular item is unavailable on Amazon. I also bought a couple of power banks which will do for charging the mobile phone and the lights. Only really required if the power is off for longer than the suggested three hour rota slots. I think I prefer using a battery powered light to a candle - safer in terms of accidentally knocking it over and a more consistent light.

Cooking and heating I'm stuffed for as the house is all electric. I had thought of buying a camping stove but that would perhaps put me too far down the 'prepper' route!

 

[telstarbox]

Would that mean no electric trains during those three hours or is the railway prioritised over domestic supply @Bald Rick ?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Would that mean no electric trains during those three hours or is the railway prioritised over domestic supply @Bald Rick ?

As far as I know, essential services and manufacturing will not be affected. Even so, hospitals generally have back-up generators in the event of a power outage

Now will this government consider the railway as essential....?

 

[Bald Rick]

Would that mean no electric trains during those three hours or is the railway prioritised over domestic supply @Bald Rick ?

Railway is prioritised. In many cases the signalling is fed from the same network connection as the traction supply, and you don’t want the signalling turned off!

 

[GS250]

We're already preparing for the worst at work (large private school). Considering how more or less the entire curriculum is delivered by IT these days it's going to be interesting to see what happens here.

4pm may cover us for lessons but unless you have 2-3x the average of UPS batteries...all those servers need to be powered off gracefully and then powered back on again once the cut is over. And as anyone else who works in IT knows....they don't always come back as they should!

And it's not just schools that run IT to say the least......

 

[david1212]

As I read it the article is about a forecast lack of gas to fuel the power stations, so yes.

But as came up in a recent discussion somewhere I don't think they’re ever allowed to do random cuts to domestic gas supply, it’s too dangerous.

My gas oven ( oven, grill and hob/rings ) has no electrical connection. The ignition is piezo.

The lounge gas fire that had no electrical connection went out 20 years ago as the flue had issues. An electric is there now but rarely used as until now with the price difference per kWh for less or the same money all the house could be heated.

Long term to have heat totally independent of electricity having a gas fire again is the way forward, also thinking of retirement and more hours at home daytime I then can just heat the lounge. From all I have read flueless are the most efficient as no heat loss up the flue but mixed opinions on safety.

Blackouts may be imposed on cold weekday evenings between 4- 7pm. How real might this be and how will you prepare/cope?

Blackouts may be imposed on cold weekday evenings, National Grid chief warns

The warning from the head of the National Grid follows the electricity and gas systems operator outlining unlikely scenarios when blackouts may take place this winter.

news.sky.com

If industry is separated from domestic stay at work until 6:40pm.

In todays electronic, computerised and networked world I really do wonder how this would work. If industry and domestic can not be separated I do not want to be regularly shutting down and restarting the server and network.

 

[Russel]

Not a major story.

Maybe not, but I expect the same story to be replayed next year, and the year after...

Same 'worst case scenario' reported every winter, yet this year the media seem to have jumped all over it.

 

[GusB]

Maybe not, but I expect the same story to be replayed next year, and the year after...

Same 'worst case scenario' reported every winter, yet this year the media seem to have jumped all over it.

This may well be the case, but to be prepared for a major outage is still a fairly sensible option. Last year's Storm Arwen did some physical damage to my property, but I was never without electricity; there were many people within a hundred-mile radius who were, though, and remained so for several days.

I live by the coast and tend not to suffer from major snowfall here, but I don't have to travel very far inland to see how others are affected.

 

[DelayRepay]

This may well be the case, but to be prepared for a major outage is still a fairly sensible option. Last year's Storm Arwen did some physical damage to my property, but I was never without electricity; there were many people within a hundred-mile radius who were, though, and remained so for several days.

This is the thing - I've had at least one power cut every winter since I moved in here, due to weather or infrastructure faults. Planned power outages will actually be easier to deal with because you can boil the kettle and prepare your food beforehand, or even plan to be somewhere else. I'd like to see how they've divided the areas up, so I can work out which friends live in different zones to me.

 

[Adam Williams]

I wonder how all those electric car driver's that were sniggering and commenting during the petrol crisis last year now feel with electricity prices through the roof and potentially unable to charge them for a portion of the day.

• Still cheaper than your ICE car to run, even with current electricity costs. Even at extortionate fast DC chargers at the motorway service station, it's not more than about £15 / 100mi with (my mostly urban-area) real-world driving. Diesel when I last looked at a comparable motorway service station was close to 195p / litre, you're looking at about £17-18 for the same 100 miles for avg mpg from a Golf. At home, with current electricity costs (33p per kWh), the same 100 miles cost is about £10 and I imagine diesel is closer to 181p / litre. With a real-world economy 7 tariff that same 100 miles would cost less than a fiver (£4.60 at 15.46p) if you charged overnight.
• The great thing about having a battery in the car is that it doesn't really matter if you charge at 3am or 5pm. Generally very easy to shift the home-charging around in the day which is exactly why EV-targeted tariffs with cheaper rates at off-peak times are so popular!

So yeah, no regrets here whatsoever

 

[AM9]

• Still cheaper than your ICE car to run, even with current electricity costs. Even at extortionate fast DC chargers at the motorway service station, it's not more than about £15 / 100mi with (my mostly urban-area) real-world driving. Diesel when I last looked at a comparable motorway service station was close to 195p / litre, you're looking at about £17-18 for the same 100 miles for avg mpg from a Golf. At home, with current electricity costs (33p per kWh), the same 100 miles cost is about £10 and I imagine diesel is closer to 181p / litre. With a real-world economy 7 tariff that same 100 miles would cost less than a fiver (£4.60 at 15.46p) if you charged overnight.
• The great thing about having a battery in the car is that it doesn't really matter if you charge at 3am or 5pm. Generally very easy to shift the home-charging around in the day which is exactly why EV-targeted tariffs with cheaper rates at off-peak times are so popular!

So yeah, no regrets here whatsoever

Power cuts during the evening rush hour will cause more queuing meaning that carbon burning vehicles will use more fuel. Add to that the probability that garages will also get power cuts, so no opportunity to fill cars on those disconnections and there will no schadenfreude moments for oil burning dinosaurs.

 

[yorksrob]

In the 1971-2 rota cuts, I remember going out to pubs that were open using candles and electric torches. But those were the days of cash for all transactions, with change often kept in a drawer behind the bar. How well will pubs work now they all use electronic tills and (we're told) most people want to pay by card or phone?

The "do everything online" generation may have a nasty surprise coming.

Most of the ones I know take cash. I'm sure they'll find a calculator from somewhere.

How many pubs now rely on electric pumps to get the beer? Real ale on handpull should be OK

It's the only beer that counts.

 

[headshot119]

I wonder how all those electric car driver's that were sniggering and commenting during the petrol crisis last year now feel with electricity prices through the roof and potentially unable to charge them for a portion of the day.

Oh I'll be loving life my friend, Vehicle 2 Home technology means while you're cuddled around candles, I'll be unaffected, and there'll be plenty of time for the car to charge when the mains comes back on.

I can also ensure my elderly neighbours have somewhere warm to be as well.

 

[Falcon1200]

The "do everything online" generation may have a nasty surprise coming.

Not necessarily, as long as they remember to charge their phones/tablets/laptops before the power cut!

Anybody think the media is looking for a major crisis to panic the public after covid.

All the media have done is report what the National Grid said, as per the OP.

I too remember the power cuts of the early 1970s, we (the family) played cards by candlelight. Actually, things might be better now as my tablet's battery will easily outlast a 3-hour power cut, hopefully the internet will not go down though.

 

[najaB]

Thing is if there was world gas shortage why has the world gas price dropped to 192p/therm down from the eye watering 700+p/therm in September.

There never has been a gas shortage. The USA, Qatar, etc. can provide as much gas as we need. The problem has been, and continues to be, a lack of storage and, in the case of continental Europe, facilities to offload LNG and introduce it into the system.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

We should never have got rid of those ubiquitous gasworks towers that were a feature in nearly every town

 

[Bald Rick]

We should never have got rid of those ubiquitous gasworks towers that were a feature in nearly every town

They actually didn’t hold much gas, at least not for the quantities of gas we need now (ie for electricity generation).

 

[swt_passenger]

They actually didn’t hold much gas, at least not for the quantities of gas we need now (ie for electricity generation).

AIUI they were effectively empty once per day, they were not there to store gas as such, but act as a buffer between the steady production process and the daily peaks and troughs in actual demand. Googling suggests their capacity was replaced by raising distribution network pressure, aka “pipeline packing”.

 

[GS250]

In todays electronic, computerised and networked world I really do wonder how this would work. If industry and domestic can not be separated I do not want to be regularly shutting down and restarting the server and network.

Its going to be a nightmare for IT administrators and Network Managers with onsite servers.

Lots has moved up into the cloud but there's still plenty running VM's on their own premises.

 

[DelW]

AIUI they were effectively empty once per day, they were not there to store gas as such, but act as a buffer between the steady production process and the daily peaks and troughs in actual demand. Googling suggests their capacity was replaced by raising distribution network pressure, aka “pipeline packing”.

Indeed, in the late 1970s when I was working on motorway construction, we installed a culvert for British Gas to divert one of their mains through. Talking to the BG guys doing the installation, the size of the main (900mm dia IIRC) was determined by calculations of storage capacity not throughput. It also was designed for very high pressure (several hundred bar I think). We were very careful to keep well clear of it with our plant.

 

[AM9]

Indeed, in the late 1970s when I was working on motorway construction, we installed a culvert for British Gas to divert one of their mains through. Talking to the BG guys doing the installation, the size of the main (900mm dia IIRC) was determined by calculations of storage capacity not throughput. It also was designed for very high pressure (several hundred bar I think). We were very careful to keep well clear of it with our plant.

Also, part of the attraction of Natural (so called North Sea) Gas was it's higher calorific value per volume and the practicalities of raising the supply pressure, - even right to the end user.

 

[Ediswan]

AIUI they were effectively empty once per day, they were not there to store gas as such, but act as a buffer between the steady production process and the daily peaks and troughs in actual demand. Googling suggests their capacity was replaced by raising distribution network pressure, aka “pipeline packing”.

Originally, they were used to match suppy to demand for locally produced town/coal gas.

 

[nw1]

Arguably we need to switch back to BST earlier than normal if this is a significant risk. A key thing should be to maximise daylight between 4-7pm, to minimise the disruption this will cause.

On the other hand, if they have to have them though, I'd suggest after 5pm as otherwise it could be disruptive to the working day and force early closures of businesses.

 

[najaB]

Its going to be a nightmare for IT administrators and Network Managers with onsite servers.

Hopefully they will have UPS/backup generators to cover the outages if they're expected to be a few hours.

 

[nw1]

Not necessarily, as long as they remember to charge their phones/tablets/laptops before the power cut!

Except you need electricity for the router. Otherwise you're stuck with expensive data charges.

As I said above, bringing forward the return to BST will help if this does indeed become a serious threat. At least you can do things in the house, or go out for a walk, if it's light for most of the 4-7 period.

 

[AM9]

Except you need electricity for the router. Otherwise you're stuck with expensive data charges.

As I said above, bringing forward the return to BST will help if this does indeed become a serious threat. At least you can do things in the house, or go out for a walk, if it's light for most of the 4-7 period.

... and the local green boxes need to have an uninterrupted supply as well as the base stations on the GSM networks.There was a major power failure in London, Herts and up to parts of MK in February this year. Within 3 mionutes the 4G network collapsed, then the basic 2g went, all that was left was twisted pair telephony.

 

[nw1]

... and the local green boxes need to have an uninterrupted supply as well as the base stations on the GSM networks.There was a major power failure in London, Herts and up to parts of MK in February this year. Within 3 mionutes the 4G network collapsed, then the basic 2g went, all that was left was twisted pair telephony.

This was Eunice-related I take it?

 

[AM9]

This was Eunice-related I take it?

If Eunice was a winter storm, I don't think so. The original fault was believed to be at the National Grid level, - it was never publically declared but the Sundon switching centre was mentioned several times.

 

[najaB]

... and the local green boxes need to have an uninterrupted supply as well as the base stations on the GSM networks.

The VDSL Openreach green cabinets should be self-powering for 24 hours. At least, that was the original spec - things may have changed since.