New Chester to Leeds service

[driver_m]

There's a Northern 158 at Chester now .Guess that's for road learning.

 

[mrcaa]

A lot of articles keep making a point of how the new trains are capable of up to 100mph. Will the timetable be recast for shorter journey times when they’re introduced? Im not expecting them to because of the other services on the line but it’d be great if they did.

 

[craigybagel]

A lot of articles keep making a point of how the new trains are capable of up to 100mph. Will the timetable be recast for shorter journey times when they’re introduced? Im not expecting them to because of the other services on the line but it’d be great if they did.

Barring a short section near Warrington that's too short to be of much use, there isn't any section of track with a speed higher then 90 that this new service will use.

 

[Llama]

There's a Northern 158 at Chester now .Guess that's for road learning.

Road learning and also traction training for those who still need it.

 

[mrcaa]

Barring a short section near Warrington that's too short to be of much use, there isn't any section of track with a speed higher then 90 that this new service will use.

That’s what I suspected. The max speed of the trains is basically irrelevant on this line then and the only benefit of them is that they’re brand new so in better condition.

 

[30907]

That’s what I suspected. The max speed of the trains is basically irrelevant on this line then and the only benefit of them is that they’re brand new so in better condition.

And capable of accelerating faster? Which is rather more relevant in Northern-land.

 

[craigybagel]

That’s what I suspected. The max speed of the trains is basically irrelevant on this line then and the only benefit of them is that they’re brand new so in better condition.

And capable of accelerating faster? Which is rather more relevant in Northern-land.

In northern land in general yes, although this service will be stopping at very few stops by Northern standards. I doubt the new units will be able to out perform a 158 enough to make a huge difference in the timetable given the line speed (75 max Chester to Warrington, 90 max beyond) and lack of stops (3 between Chester and Manchester).

 

[LOL The Irony]

And capable of accelerating faster? Which is rather more relevant in Northern-land.

0 - 90MPH is faster in a 158 than a 195. A 195 is slower to 100MPH than a 170.

 

[Mathew S]

0 - 90MPH is faster in a 158 than a 195. A 195 is slower to 100MPH than a 170.

Given that a 3-car 195 will have circa 300hp more than a 3-car 170, that's difficult to believe. Are they really that much heavier / poorly geared?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Are they really that much heavier / poorly geared?

The latter. The 172's also suffer from the same issue.

 

[craigybagel]

0 - 90MPH is faster in a 158 than a 195. A 195 is slower to 100MPH than a 170.

The latter. The 172's also suffer from the same issue.

Have you got a source for this? It seems very different to what most people would expect - and any time I've traveled on 172s they seem far better at acceleration then 170s....

Also, over at TfW we have one 158 (158834) with a bus style transmission. Granted, it's a 4 speed DIWA rather then the 6 speed ZF fitted to 172s, but it's also notable that acceleration on this unit is much better then on the rest of the 158s, albeit with the catch that it's not at all smooth, especially when transitioning from coasting to taking power at speed.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Have you got a source for this? It seems very different to what most people would expect - and any time I've traveled on 172s they seem far better at acceleration then 170s....

I'll find the figures later. It's the initial acceleration that fools you.

 

[billio]

Yes, but how many will want to go Chester-Rochdale or Bradford-Warrington (I don't think either route has had a through service before).
Also I suspect Chester-Leeds will be quicker changing to TPE at Victoria.

It is roughly 20 minutes quicker, including a 14 minute wait at Victoria.

 

[Bevan Price]

Yes, but how many will want to go Chester-Rochdale or Bradford-Warrington (I don't think either route has had a through service before).
Also I suspect Chester-Leeds will be quicker changing to TPE at Victoria.

There used to be a summer saturday service between Bradford & Llandudno that called at Chester, but agree, not much else.

 

[Glenn1969]

Think some people will use it because they don't want to change trains even if the direct service takes longer

 

[Parallel]

Think some people will use it because they don't want to change trains even if the direct service takes longer

True, if it was only 20 minutes I’d use it. Another classic is Trowbridge to Worcester. There is a slower direct train but you can also save 30 minutes by changing at Bristol and Cheltenham. That said, with changes, you have an increased risk of arriving late if one of the trains is disrupted.

 

[mrcaa]

True, if it was only 20 minutes I’d use it. Another classic is Trowbridge to Worcester. There is a slower direct train but you can also save 30 minutes by changing at Bristol and Cheltenham. That said, with changes, you have an increased risk of arriving late if one of the trains is disrupted.

150 minutes is still a bit of a slog though when you can drive it in about 100 on a good day. I suppose if you had to take the train though and you already had your seat you might as well stay put as the TPE trains are usually packed around Manchester.

 

[Randomer]

True, if it was only 20 minutes I’d use it.

20 minutes seems to be a reasonable figure for most people to stay on the direct train. The current Northern Nottingham-Leeds via Barnsley is a very similar example to this and seems to have quite a few people doing end to end journeys quite regularly rather than changing for the XC service. Some very cheap advance fares are also available even very close to the day of travel compared to those offered by XC (or indeed the walk up prices with no splits).

I would hope that similar competitive pricing will be available on the new route to draw customers to the new service.

 

[Bikeman78]

Have you got a source for this? It seems very different to what most people would expect - and any time I've traveled on 172s they seem far better at acceleration then 170s....

Also, over at TfW we have one 158 (158834) with a bus style transmission. Granted, it's a 4 speed DIWA rather then the 6 speed ZF fitted to 172s, but it's also notable that acceleration on this unit is much better then on the rest of the 158s, albeit with the catch that it's not at all smooth, especially when transitioning from coasting to taking power at speed.

The 175s have good acceleration at most speeds. Going out of Crewe they are doing 90-95 at Sandbach and coasting at 100 a few seconds later.

 

[craigybagel]

The 175s have good acceleration at most speeds. Going out of Crewe they are doing 90-95 at Sandbach and coasting at 100 a few seconds later.

I suspect your GPS needs calibrating - the linespeed is only 85 as far as Sandbach!

 

[Bikeman78]

I suspect your GPS needs calibrating - the linespeed is only 85 as far as Sandbach!

Whoops! I'll get my eyes tested.

 

[Geeves]

I would imagine there will be some cheap 3 and 4 quid advances on these Vic Chester trains to drum up some trade, saying that its a very common question at Vic Booking office about trains to Warrington, Chester and N Wales. This train will almost certainly be popular from the word go. Rochdale to Chester and N Wales is also a popular journey.

Seems that road learning and traction training is going well!

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I travel from Ellesmere Port to Bradford fortnightly to watch Bradford (Park Avenue) and don't use the train for home matches as it takes about 3.5 hours to do 58 miles (as the crow flies, 73 miles by road) with multitudinous stops. The new service will help but I'll still have to go via Hooton and Chester as the timings don't fit with the footy. However the early E. Port - Leeds working might be useful for cricket at Headingley and at least I'll get a seat.

On a less self-centred note, TfW Chester - Warrington - Manchester trains are often seriously overcrowded and a half hourly service is urgently needed. And it is quite right that these should alternate between Piccadilly and Victoria as these offer very different connections.

It is rather weird that the Calder Valley is getting through services to Chester but not as yet the promised links to Piccadilly and the Airport which I thought were the prime purpose of the Ordsall Chord. It shows that the the Calder Valley it is still well down the pecking order.

 

[Chester1]

I travel from Ellesmere Port to Bradford fortnightly to watch Bradford (Park Avenue) and don't use the train for home matches as it takes about 3.5 hours to do 58 miles (as the crow flies, 73 miles by road) with multitudinous stops. The new service will help but I'll still have to go via Hooton and Chester as the timings don't fit with the footy. However the early E. Port - Leeds working might be useful for cricket at Headingley and at least I'll get a seat.

On a less self-centred note, TfW Chester - Warrington - Manchester trains are often seriously overcrowded and a half hourly service is urgently needed. And it is quite right that these should alternate between Piccadilly and Victoria as these offer very different connections.

It is rather weird that the Calder Valley is getting through services to Chester but not as yet the promised links to Piccadilly and the Airport which I thought were the prime purpose of the Ordsall Chord. It shows that the the Calder Valley it is still well down the pecking order.

I use the service regularly but I think TfW will use the Northern service as an opportunity to reduce capacity of Llandudno services. Their fleet is very stretched and the overcrowding is east of Chester. I think they will try to get away with using 2 coach units, only use 3 for the most busy services and use the second loco hauled set on Cardiff-Holyhead. 2x2 coach services would still be an improvement though.

 

[jamesst]

Is this service actually starting in May? I can see Northern have published all the new timetables but can't see this listed anywhere

 

[Deerfold]

Is this service actually starting in May? I can see Northern have published all the new timetables but can't see this listed anywhere

It does appear to be a secret. There don't seem be any advances on any Northern services from the new timetable yet - I'm guessing that when they arrive we'll see if the service to Chester is still in the online timetables.

 

[peri]

The new timetable 36
(Leeds to Manchester Victoria via Bradford Interchange/Brighouse and Manchester to Blackburn)
states which trains carry on to Chester.
I think timetable 17 needs re-vamping to add them.

 

[Glenn1969]

Leeds to Chester: xx36/37/38/39 from 0539-1939 Mon - Sat except the 1539 Mon to Fri which is an Ellesmere Port train

Chester to Leeds: xx14/16/17/20/21/23/24 from 0617 to 2020 except 0715 which is an Ellesmere Port train and 1823 which runs Ellesmere Port to Man Vic only

I wish Northern would publish these trains in their own timetable because I want the trains to be a success

 

[theshillito]

Well, I asked and got "This will be introduced into May however there will not be a timetable for this as it cross's over two timetables. I have been informed that if you look for this for midweek and Saturdays after the 20th May you will be able to find the full time listings for this service."

If timetable 36 is for the Manchester Vic to Leeds portion, I guess the Chester to Manchester part will be in a different timetable somewhere...

 

[mrcaa]

The services show on the Northern app. £70.40 for a peak return and £51.20 for an off peak. No sign of any cheaper advance tickets though.