New Easements file for National Routeing Guide

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exile

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The easements in the attached file have been amended wef 27/6/2012

This is a nasty one

700266 Customers travelling from Warrington Central, Padgate, Birchwood,
Glazebrook and Irlam to Preston in possession of tickets routed "Any
Permitted" may not travel via Manchester Oxford Road. This easement
applies in both directions.

Given that Oxford Road is the only route that doesn't involve a walk between stations......
 

MikeWh

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Can anyone suggest what the point of this one is?
700262 Customers travelling from West Byfleet, Byfleet & New Haw, Weybridge,
Walton On Thames, Hersham and Esher via New Malden may travel via
Surbiton. This easement applies in both directions.
 

calc7

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700240 - can anybody find a ticket from Bramley (W Yorks) routed "not London" and dare apply the easement? ;)
 

All Line Rover

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700240 - can anybody find a ticket from Bramley (W Yorks) routed "not London" and dare apply the easement? ;)

But you have to be travelling via Newbury for the easement to be valid, so good luck with that. ;)
 

34D

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There's some strange things in here, notably some long standing genuine easements that have been deleted.

Good to see that the Hitchin-Stevenage double back has returned, but NOT from stevenage :(

I don't see how "700261 Customers travelling from or via Thorne South to or via Thorne North may
not travel via Kirk Sandall and/or Doncaster. This easement applies in both
directions" would work as this would be the shortest route which doesn't involve a walk.
 

hairyhandedfool

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....I don't see how "700261 Customers travelling from or via Thorne South to or via Thorne North may
not travel via Kirk Sandall and/or Doncaster. This easement applies in both
directions" would work as this would be the shortest route which doesn't involve a walk.

Surely the shortest route (by rail only) between Thorne South and Thorne North is via Hatfield & Stainforth?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Can anyone suggest what the point of this one is?

As is the case with a few easements, it is to solve an issue in the journey planners.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
This is a nasty one

700266 Customers travelling from Warrington Central, Padgate, Birchwood,
Glazebrook and Irlam to Preston in possession of tickets routed "Any
Permitted" may not travel via Manchester Oxford Road. This easement
applies in both directions.

Given that Oxford Road is the only route that doesn't involve a walk between stations......

What about via Deansgate?
 

clagmonster

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I don't see how "700261 Customers travelling from or via Thorne South to or via Thorne North may
not travel via Kirk Sandall and/or Doncaster. This easement applies in both
directions" would work as this would be the shortest route which doesn't involve a walk.
As HHF says, this forces passengers to change at Hatfield & Stainforth, which is particularly good on Sundays when there is no Doncaster-Scunthorpe stopper, thereby removing Sunday rail links from North (East) Lincolnshire to East Yorkshire.
 

exile

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Surely the shortest route (by rail only) between Thorne South and Thorne North is via Hatfield & Stainforth?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


As is the case with a few easements, it is to solve an issue in the journey planners.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


What about via Deansgate?

Possible, but there are far fewer connections there.
 

34D

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As HHF says, this forces passengers to change at Hatfield & Stainforth, which is particularly good on Sundays when there is no Doncaster-Scunthorpe stopper, thereby removing Sunday rail links from North (East) Lincolnshire to East Yorkshire.

Oops. I forgot about Hatfield, and assumed it was to force a (long) walk in Thorne. Sorry guys, and thanks.
 

yorkie

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Changing at Hatfield & Stainforth has to be a mistake surely? If anyone wishes to write a letter to ATOC , the DfT and the TOCs concerned, I would of course be happy to proof read...
 

Ascot

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27 Journeys from Derby or Leicester or via Derby or Leicester to Water Orton
may double back from Birmingham if the train does not stop at Water
Orton. This easement applies in both directions.

Sad to see that one has been deleted. :(

700236 Customers travelling from Blair Atholl or Pitlochry via Ladybank, may travel
via Perth. This easement applies in both directions.

700237 Customers travelling from Blair Atholl or Pitlochry via Stirling may travel via
Perth. This easement applies in both directions.

Can anyone explain these 2 as I thought it was kind of hard not to?
 

kieron

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Just for completeness, the following easements have also vanished since 8/4 (which I think was the last version):

700141 Customers travelling from all stations (Kilmaurs to Kennishead) inclusive to all stations (Thornliebank to East Kilbride) inclusive, may not travel via Glasgow Central. This easement applies in both directions.

700151 During the period 20/05/2011 to 17/07/2011 customers travelling to/from Barrow in Furness, Roose, Dalton, Ulverston, Cark, Kents Bank, Grange Over Sands and Arnside may travel via Oxenhiolme. This easement applies in both directions.

And 700124 has changed from
Customers travelling from Alfreton or Langley Mill to or via London St Pancras, in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may travel via Chesterfield. This easement applies in both directions.
to
Customers travelling from Alfreton or Langley Mill to or via London St Pancras, in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' or 'EMT & Connections' may travel via Chesterfield. This easement applies in both directions.

I don't think any of these particular changes do anything, though. 700141 wasn't needed as passengers should change at Pollokshaws West anyway. 700151 was just clutter. And 700124 sound like an Advance thing.

As HHF says, this forces passengers to change at Hatfield & Stainforth, which is particularly good on Sundays when there is no Doncaster-Scunthorpe stopper, thereby removing Sunday rail links from North (East) Lincolnshire to East Yorkshire.
The links are still there. They just cost 65% or so more than they did last week. :(
 

yorkie

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There is no sensible, human reason for them. They exist because some booking engines are riddled with errors and have had so many patches applied to them (to stop people using 'loopholes'!) that they are denying some perfectly valid journeys. So they have to introduce a positive easement to get the booking engines to actually work properly! Quite often the written wording is rather different to the machine-readable coding on the easement too.
 

bb21

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The links are still there. They just cost 65% or so more than they did last week. :(

... which they shouldn't, as the shortest route on Sundays would surely involve doubling back between Hatfield and Doncaster.
 

infobleep

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How about an easement allowing passengers who change at Clapham Junction on SWT services during peak rush hour to double back to Waterloo. Southern use to and may still have an easement in place for Clapham Junction and Victoria. I used it in 2010 and they do stop fast trains at Clapham Junction during peak rush hours when SWT can't.

Also there are times when National Rail Enquiries show a journey requiring two tickets because you get to your destination before the next direct journey. This is the case on Sundays for stations between Guildford and Gatwick which only get a 2 hourly service. Surely an easement in such cases would be worth while. It would elementary the two tickets required results on the NRE Web Site.

I've also never understood why no easement exists allowing Guildford to Aldershot customers the opportunity to travel via Woking. The last connecting service back from Aldershot is only via Woking but technically you need two tickets. Actually national enquires tell you to get out at Ash Green and walk to North Camp but towards midnight, i would rather not have to walk between the stations. Whilst not totally rural they are not exactly central London either. Not sure how well sign posted or lit the route is. I believe that route still requires two tickets. I've ignored this and travelled via Woking as ticket checks are unlikely. I know it's illegal but if they are so concerned, run a later train to Guildford. Many concerts finish at 23.00 or later so the 23.04 is to tight. Where as the 23.34 works fine but officially requires two tickets.

I do find the easement between Hove/Lewes and Brighton very useful. I travel to Brighton for hospital appointments and often then travel back via Lewes so I can visit the bookshops. A case of a useful easement when so many direct trains run that it seems odd. Surely it is only nessesary during enginnering work. Not that I'm complaining.
 

Ivo

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27 Journeys from Derby or Leicester or via Derby or Leicester to Water Orton
may double back from Birmingham if the train does not stop at Water
Orton. This easement applies in both directions.

Sad to see that one has been deleted. :(

Agreed :(

How about an easement allowing passengers who change at Clapham Junction on SWT services during peak rush hour to double back to Waterloo. Southern use to and may still have an easement in place for Clapham Junction and Victoria.

Do 58* and 700014** not allow this?

* Tickets routed via London may be used to double back between Clapham Junction and Waterloo.

** Tickets with the following route codes may be used to double back between Clapham Junction and London Waterloo. (Any Permitted, London, London Not Underground, Not Valid on HS1, AP London Woking)

Note however that 30230*** prohibits this with regards to Vauxhall however.

*** Customers travelling from Vauxhall to Clapham Junction and beyond may not travel via London Waterloo. This easement applies in both directions.
 

bb21

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I've also never understood why no easement exists allowing Guildford to Aldershot customers the opportunity to travel via Woking. The last connecting service back from Aldershot is only via Woking but technically you need two tickets. Actually national enquires tell you to get out at Ash Green and walk to North Camp but towards midnight, i would rather not have to walk between the stations. Whilst not totally rural they are not exactly central London either. Not sure how well sign posted or lit the route is. I believe that route still requires two tickets. I've ignored this and travelled via Woking as ticket checks are unlikely. I know it's illegal but if they are so concerned, run a later train to Guildford. Many concerts finish at 23.00 or later so the 23.04 is to tight. Where as the 23.34 works fine but officially requires two tickets.

If you know that you are not in a position to make the 2304 then surely the correct thing to do is to purchase separate tickets to allow you to travel legitimately via Woking?

If you truly believe that such an easement could be beneficial then it might be worth speaking to SWT about it.
 

Max

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Changing at Hatfield & Stainforth has to be a mistake surely? If anyone wishes to write a letter to ATOC , the DfT and the TOCs concerned, I would of course be happy to proof read...

Agreed, that is absolutely absurd and probably completely unenforceable. It removes a huge number of journey opportunities for people travelling between North Lincs and East Yorkshire. Another bonkers one in the Humberside area:

700242 Customers travelling from or via Barton On Humber to Cottingham and
beyond, may not travel via Hull. This easement applies in both directions.

Does this mean there are no permitted routes?!
 

hairyhandedfool

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Easements can only affect routes given in the routeing guide, I rather suspect via Hull is the shortest route in many cases.
 

David

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Another bonkers one in the Humberside area:

700242 Customers travelling from or via Barton On Humber to Cottingham and
beyond, may not travel via Hull. This easement applies in both directions.

Does this mean there are no permitted routes?!

If via Hull is now prohibited, then the only other route possible is via Doncaster, York and Scarborough ....

In the words of the Hellfire game .... Mileage move!
 

lyndhurst25

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... which they shouldn't, as the shortest route on Sundays would surely involve doubling back between Hatfield and Doncaster.

That's an interesting point. Are you implying that on Sundays -

1) You can double back through a station where at least one of the services you use doesn't stop on that day?

2) The shortest route is defined as using only lines with a Sunday service?

If allowed, either of these raise interesting possibilities...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Another bonkers one in the Humberside area:

700242 Customers travelling from or via Barton On Humber to Cottingham and
beyond, may not travel via Hull. This easement applies in both directions.

Does this mean there are no permitted routes?!

They've probably done this to stop journey planners sending people over the Humber Bridge. Although this is the sensible route to take and bus connections are shown in Table 29 of the National Rail timetable, AFAIK through tickets to use the bus across the Humber are no longer available. I do not know when and why they were withdrawn. The current train fares seem to reflect that you'll be going the long way round - Barton to Hull is £42.30 return, Barton to Cottingham (possibly valid via Scarborough;)) £42.50 return)!
 

bb21

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That's an interesting point. Are you implying that on Sundays -

1) You can double back through a station where at least one of the services you use doesn't stop on that day?

2) The shortest route is defined as using only lines with a Sunday service?

If allowed, either of these raise interesting possibilities...

How the shortest route is defined does not include situations like this. There are differing opinions as to whether the shortest route can vary depending on the service pattern of the day and we don't really have a conclusive answer.

My understanding is that the shortest route must be a route in the first place. If it cannot be done at all on service trains then it cannot be a route.

Some stations cannot be reached on Sundays which means that no alternative shortest route calculation apply, however for stations that can be reached but only via a longer route than normal, alternative calculation does exist and therefore does apply.

Some people disagree.
 

lyndhurst25

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How the shortest route is defined does not include situations like this. There are differing opinions as to whether the shortest route can vary depending on the service pattern of the day and we don't really have a conclusive answer.

My understanding is that the shortest route must be a route in the first place. If it cannot be done at all on service trains then it cannot be a route.

Some stations cannot be reached on Sundays which means that no alternative shortest route calculation apply, however for stations that can be reached but only via a longer route than normal, alternative calculation does exist and therefore does apply.

Some people disagree.
It would be interesting to know what the definitive answer is. One obvious example would be Barrow in Furness to Whitehaven on a Sunday, which can only be done by the roundabout route via Lancaster and Carlisle.

Unfortunately ALL the fares from Barrow seem to be routed "Via Sellafield" (as, strangely, are the ones from Askam, but not not Kirkby in Furness and beyond which are "Any Permitted" - neither of these stations has a Sunday service).
 
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