New railcard

[FGWman]

Ive heard there will shortly be a trial of a new railcard called two together. I cant be sure of the full details but I beleieve it will work as follows:-

It will be for two people who will have to travel together. They will be able to purchase tickets at 33% discount.

There will be restrictions in the morning. The railcard will only be available for people living in certain postcodes. ( somewhere in the midlands). However they will be able to buy tickets for travel anywhere in the UK.

It is a trial for a year and if succesfull will be extended nationwide.

Sorry thats all I know at the moment. There will be a website but it is not active yet - should be at the end of August.

 

[SS4]

Somewhere in the Midlands sounds good - hope it's the Centro area . Thanks for pointing it out

 

[Firestarter]

What's really needed is a 25-40+ rail card. Ticket prices for this age range are disgraceful.

 

[tinselworm]

I can use my railcard for myself an one other anyway...

 

[lyesbkz]

What's really needed is a 25-40+ rail card. Ticket prices for this age range are disgraceful.

Basically you want a "Everybody Railcard" (this was discussed a few months ago but I can't seem to find the thread) which defeats the point of having a discount scheme at all. You are saying that standard fares are disgraceful.

 

[RJ]

What's really needed is a 25-40+ rail card. Ticket prices for this age range are disgraceful.

Try getting hold of a Priv railcard then!

 

[BigVince76]

I would think the last thing out packed trains need is more people! Build new trains, then device clever ways to fill them.

 

[bb21]

I don't think that a national railcard should offer discounts on peak travel, for the reason above. However we could do more to encourage more journeys at quieter times. (I know, maybe XC excluded.)

 

[SS4]

I don't see much issue in at least giving it a trial run for say six months. I think it should be valid on all off-peak trains (XC excluded) as opposed to after a certain time.

Many I've spoken to don't take the train (and by extension all other public transport) for various reasons which have nothing to do with cost - usually perceived unreliability or the poor attitude to others exhibited by other people

 

[barrykas]

Specimen images of the "Two Together" Railcard (RSP 7599/401) and accompanying Photocard (RSP 3588/41) have appeared in The Manual, though the description page hasn't as yet, and nor has the website!

From the specimen images, there have to be two named cardholders, and they both have to travel together to qualify for the discount.

Because of the need to have two cardholders, the signature line is on the back of the card instead of the front, as is the spaces for the holders names on the photocard.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[nedchester]

Specimen images of the "Two Together" Railcard (RSP 7599/401) and accompanying Photocard (RSP 3588/41) have appeared in The Manual, though the description page hasn't as yet, and nor has the website!

From the specimen images, there have to be two named cardholders, and they both have to travel together to qualify for the discount.

Because of the need to have two cardholders, the signature line is on the back of the card instead of the front, as is the spaces for the holders names on the photocard.

Cheers,

Barry

This sounds very similar to something called the 'Voyager' railcard that was trialled in the early 1980s. You could only buy the card from the 'Stoke' division stations or by mail order. You got either half or a third off all tickets and you had to travel with 2 or more (up to 4??) persons. I kept a leaflet for this and have it somewhere. If I find it I will post it here.

Can't find the Voyager one but the Annual Season Ticket railcard offered 50% off day returns on Mon to Thursdays after 10am and all day Sat and Sundays. 34% off Savers at Weekends (and Bank Holidays) However, in July and August you could use savers on the ECML nor on trains to Taunton and beyond. Wouldn't be surprised that similar restrictions apply to this railcard (just a shame it is not one for the single traveller?)

 

[Clip]

Another railcard is not whats needed. Cutting a few more quid off the quietest trains to encourage patronage is whats needed. Easier to manage too rather then more instances of 'We forgot our railcard' 'I didnt know we both had to travel' and so on and so forth scare stories that will inevitably emerge in the lovely rags.

 

[WestCoast]

Interesting railcard. The more people there is undertaking a journey, the more cost-effective a car journey seems to many people.

However, there is already a very popular, permanent off-peak promotional ticket priced by Northern Rail (and First North Western before that) offered on key flows called the Duo, "when two go together, one goes half price". Valid on other TOCs services on the relevant routes too. This railcard instantly reminded me of that.

 

[First class]

First pics:
(This is *apparently* a national railcard, not just area specific).

I can see lots of excess/Penalty Fares for people travelling solo or with someone else not listed...

 

[nedchester]

First pics:
(This is *apparently* a national railcard, not just area specific).

I can see lots of excess/Penalty Fares for people travelling solo or with someone else not listed...

I still don't know why they can't extend the Network card Nationwide? People are talking about XC being overcrowded but surely you can use XC with a Network card to go from say Banbury to Southampton?
What's so special about the South East?!

 

[Mojo]

Generally (although not always) fares are higher, and there is also a lot of unused capacity off peak.

 

[jon0844]

First pics:
(This is *apparently* a national railcard, not just area specific).

I can see lots of excess/Penalty Fares for people travelling solo or with someone else not listed...

What a silly card! Why did ATOC decide they had to do it for TWO people travelling together, as against - like a Network Card - on their own, but paying more for the ability to get 25-33% off?

With a Network Card, others with you get discounts too - so there's no need for everyone to have their own (but obviously there is if they may travel alone at times).

 

[firespire]

I think they should have one card holder that takes any other person - not the two card holders together. Say I am 16 years old and on some journeys I go with Mum and some journeys with Dad - would have to buy two cards.

What happens Person A has a two together railcard with a partner and Person B has one with their partner. Will Person A and person B be allowed to travel together or do both people have to match on the same card.

 

[Flamingo]

Oh HELL! Another bloody thing to have to argue with people about when they forget the card / leave their other half in the pub.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, it's going to be a nightmare for you.

What's stupid is that I can see a joint card being an okay idea (one price, easy to renew together etc) but it should still be okay for just one person to use the card too. I get one, my partner gets one - and each allows a discount for the other named party (so, unlike a network card, it won't be usable for anyone else even if I am using mine on my own, and my partner is using hers on her own).

Surely I don't need to give ATOC a load of examples as to why you may wish to do this, like (for one) the wife going somewhere in the morning, and the husband going to meet her later on - both coming back together. Now do you buy two separate full price singles for the morning, and a discounted pair of singles back, or just buy normal price returns? Or just say 'f**k this' and not get the card in the first place.*

What about changes of plan, or where one person is ill and can't travel. Now you have to go and pay an excess, or get stung.

I get that groupsave works like that, which is fair enough as it's already out there and they are the rules; but this is a new system so why make it hard for public and staff alike to manage?

* Maybe it is intentional to make the system unpopular, as it will then give ATOC the ability to say it tried something close to a national railcard system for all ages and it failed - so there's no need to pursue the idea any further.

 

[FGWman]

First pics:
(This is *apparently* a national railcard, not just area specific).

I can see lots of excess/Penalty Fares for people travelling solo or with someone else not listed...

If will be valid to use anywhere in the country. However you will only be able to buy one if your live in the trial area.

 

[Greenback]

* Maybe it is intentional to make the system unpopular, as it will then give ATOC the ability to say it tried something close to a national railcard system for all ages and it failed - so there's no need to pursue the idea any further.

You may have something there!

It seems like a bit of daft idea to me. Overly complicated and I nightmare for staff to enforce. It looks like a token effor to introduce something in response to the growing clamour for a national railcrad, but making it as complicated and unatractive as they can get away it. All in the best ATOC traditions of course!

 

[jon0844]

I'd pay £50-100 a year for a national railcard if it gave a decent discount (1/3 is a decent discount) off-peak, as it would pay for itself easily if I used it a lot (thus earning loads for the railway).

If I was only a very irregular user, then the card wouldn't be worth the money, so another 'win' for ATOC.

I can't see how a complicated system like this is necessary unless it's to deliberately set it up to fail.

 

[Lampshade]

That's a good idea.

 

[bb21]

I guess that it's another product designed by someone who sits on his/her backside all day and has no experience of what reality is like. I agree with the idea that having at least one (rather than both) named cardholder travelling to be able to get a discount is a better idea. Alternatively just roll out the Network card, but with a minimum fare during the week like it is now if the TOCs are worried about losing revenue.

 

[graham43404]

Although this seems to have not gone down to well with most people on here I have to say it would be great for me and my wife as we don't have children, so a railcard that gets us some discount would be superb.

 

[jon0844]

The only logical reason to force someone to travel with someone else (and, in fact, the same person) is to make the card a lot less useful and flexible than a single railcard... and thus, it's to try and reduce the chances of people being able to use it.

It will also hand the media loads of easy stories on a plate when people get in trouble for having bought two tickets but the second person can't travel. Okay, you'll get people who just buy one ticket to get the discount, but what would happen if you had bought two tickets and carried them with you even though the second person wasn't there? Would you get charged extra? This would have 'take it to court' written all over it as the railway would have lost nothing, and in fact gained an extra seat from the person who didn't go.

To expect the person to excess the first ticket would be adding insult to injury, and it makes little sense to create a system whereby someone would have to excess the ticket they used and claim a refund (less an admin fee) for the one they didn't. What a lot of fuss that will make it easier to either pay full price or travel by bus/car/taxi etc.

And I say all this despite being married and therefore, in theory, benefiting from the card. However, we're not joined at the hip and don't always travel everywhere together.

 

[FGWman]

Okay, you'll get people who just buy one ticket to get the discount, but .

I dont see how they will be able to do that as you must buy two tickets.

 

[RJ]

If you aren't going to be travelling with someone else, then you don't get the discount. If you claim the discount but don't qualify, then you have to pay full price. How is this complicated?

 

[jon0844]

Stupid me for not realising they'd make sure you have to buy two tickets.

On that basis; if you buy two tickets but one person can't go - what is the chance that they'll succeed in getting you to excess to a full price ticket - given you've 'lost' the second ticket and the railway has not lost anything at all.

I'd presume the T&Cs will state you must get a refund in pairs too.

Perhaps, RJ, this won't be complicated at all - but I suspect it will open a can of worms that will make life hell for RPIs/guards and also earn the industry even more negative publicity when you get the Daily Mail writing about Mr Jones who left his sick wife at home and got stung heavily, despite having purchased the second ticket for someone who didn't even travel.

I'm merely playing devil's advocate here.