New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[HH]

HH, where it is true the 158/159s accelerate better than the EMUs, they are let down by only being 90mph vice 100mph for the 444/450s. It will be interesting to see what the refresh is like, I guess a mix of USB & plug sockets will be fitted (similar style to the Scotrail 158s)?

As I understand it, the timings over the routes run are similar for 158/159 as for 444/450. This will change when the power supply gets upgraded, but that is some way off. Besides all the 444/450s are already allocated; the only realistic option would be a new build. Maybe they didn't like any of the few options on offer?

As for the refresh, I expect similar to ScotRail, with plug sockets, faster WiFi, better PIS and a full refurb of the interior.

 

[theageofthetra]

In the Railway Gazette it mentioned about Sunday afternoon services matching weekday frequency- do Sundays fall inside the current pay agreement?

 

[NickBucks]

Anyone know what date the first re-tractioned 442 in the new operators livery will be unveiled as the suspense is killing me.

 

[infobleep]

I thought the 442s weren't suppose to have enough seating capacity in them to run on the busy Portsmouth Direct Line or at least I thought I read someone post that in the 442 thread. Will they increase the sitting capacity with the refurbishment. Also what will they do to make them disabled compliant?

 

[godfreycomplex]

In the Railway Gazette it mentioned about Sunday afternoon services matching weekday frequency- do Sundays fall inside the current pay agreement?

Sundays inside at the moment yes

 

[randompixel]

Stagecoach Statement: http://www.stagecoach.com/media/new...x?hootPostID=a00defd32528158a9b2b10d42e364721

Stagecoach Group is disappointed that it has been unsuccessful in its bid for the new South Western rail franchise, which is due to commence in summer 2017.

Stagecoach Group Chief Executive Martin Griffiths said: "We are proud to have operated the network under the South West Trains brand for more than 20 years and we are disappointed that we have been unsuccessful in our bid for the new franchise.

"Over the past two decades, we have delivered real improvements for our customers right across the network. That success has been built on fantastic people, detailed knowledge of the business and strong relationships with our stakeholders and railway partners. But we have never thought our job was finished."

"We believe we submitted a strong bid for the new South Western franchise. It offered a transformation in the travel experience for our customers, more investment to help the railway support the communities and economy of the south-west, as well as a substantial and deliverable financial benefit to taxpayers to help fund better public services."

"We will be seeking detailed feedback from the Department for Transport on the various elements of our bid."

"I would like to thank all of our employees and partners who have been involved in delivering our vision for the railway in the south-west over the past two decades as well as those who contributed to our strong bid for the new franchise. I know they share our disappointment in the result. Nevertheless, we will continue to work hard on our part to deliver a professional service and meet our obligations in the final months of our current franchise."

 

[superalbs]

Anyone know what date the first re-tractioned 442 in the new operators livery will be unveiled as the suspense is killing me.

Following the current trend, probably something like the attached image. :P

In all seriousness, whether you like the liveries or not, First have been giving it a better attempt than any other bland white livery.

 

[Juniper Driver]

HH, where it is true the 158/159s accelerate better than the EMUs, they are let down by only being 90mph vice 100mph for the 444/450s. It will be interesting to see what the refresh is like, I guess a mix of USB & plug sockets will be fitted (similar style to the Scotrail 158s)?

It isn't.
Plus the 90mph/100mph thing has nothing to do with it.The 159s are capable though are restricted to 90mph as and the 444s are capable of going over 100mph but are restricted by the computer and line speed obviously.

 

[GW43125]

How will they manage to do the retractioning whilst Bomo are busy with the 455s and will be for the foreseeable?

 

[HH]

I thought the 442s weren't suppose to have enough seating capacity in them to run on the busy Portsmouth Direct Line or at least I thought I read someone post that in the 442 thread. Will they increase the sitting capacity with the refurbishment. Also what will they do to make them disabled compliant?

If they've been accepted by DfT as suitable I think you can assume that there will be sufficient seating capacity. I believe that First/MTR intend on increasing capacity in all proposed refreshes.

 

[Carlisle]

Indeed. Various gauging issues as well apparently.

Not an impossible problem I'd have thought given that body side cameras are fitted to Scotrails Juniper and Desiro fleet

 

[HH]

How will they manage to do the retractioning whilst Bomo are busy with the 455s and will be for the foreseeable?

It will be done elsewhere, maybe?

 

[HH]

It isn't.
Plus the 90mph/100mph thing has nothing to do with it.The 159s are capable though are restricted to 90mph as and the 444s are capable of going over 100mph but are restricted by the computer and line speed obviously.

And power supply.

 

[GW43125]

It will be done elsewhere, maybe?

Where could it be done? Either that or put the 455s on hold?

 

[HH]

Where could it be done? Either that or put the 455s on hold?

Eastleigh? I understand that's where they're being stored.

 

[GW43125]

Eastleigh? I understand that's where they're being stored.

Not sure if they have the gubbins.

 

[313103]

The first is correct at least. The second, well, I don't expect to see removal of guards from any services, but I would be surprised if there wasn't some change in operation on some services.

And yet part of the stakeholder statement says and i quote 'At the same time
it will be essential to secure further efficiencies, such as those identified in the McNulty report, to deliver better value for money to taxpayers and fare payers.' unquote.

So i would be surprised if we dont get either of the following and probably both:

1. DOO on ALL the metro services to start when the new 700 series starts running, and over time the eventual withdrawal of the grade completely. Please feel free to correct me if i am wrong on either part as history is telling me this will happen.

2. Closure of ticket offices throughout the new network, because how are you going to get more staff on the concourse, and what would be the point of the company putting in expensive ticket machines (paid for by the taxpayer no doubt) all over the place.

Why don't they just say 'In order to reduce the taxpayer and government of subsidising the company (something of which that should of been done in 1994 i hasten to add) we are going to reduce the headcount of actual directly employed staff and where possible replace with no one or at best with outside contractors with inferior terms and wages.' Rather then using the euphemism 'McNulty'? We certainly in the industrial know what McNulty means so why doesn't the government tell us directly what the plans are. Its all smoke and mirrors with them.

 

[northwichcat]

I'm I the only one who thinks this looks a bit poor overall. Where's extra capacity for the Exeter route for starters. Looks like prospect of 158/159 replacement is at least 10 years away. Weymouth route gets a train to Portsmouth but what about London capacity?

Is it really worse than the Northern franchise including the use of 150s until 2025?

I would guess that as SWT won't be taking on the surplus 185s or releasing 158s that the chance of DfT deciding to split Liverpool-Norwich are use released 185s on the section west of Nottingham has now increased.

90 trains consisting of 750 vehicles formed as 5 and 10 car trains could give 60 10-car and 30 5-car - that would replace the 455s/456s and 707s more or less like for like, it wouldn't quite cover the 458s.

Does 90 new trains include the 30 x 707s already ordered?

 

[jon0844]

If they've been accepted by DfT as suitable I think you can assume that there will be sufficient seating capacity. I believe that First/MTR intend on increasing capacity in all proposed refreshes.

3+3 seating FTW!

 

[HH]

And yet part of the stakeholder statement says and i quote 'At the same time it will be essential to secure further efficiencies, such as those identified in the McNulty report, to deliver better value for money to taxpayers and fare payers.' unquote.

So i would be surprised if we dont get either of the following and probably both:

1. DOO on ALL the metro services to start when the new 700 series starts running, and over time the eventual withdrawal of the grade completely. Please feel free to correct me if i am wrong on either part as history is telling me this will happen.

2. Closure of ticket offices throughout the new network, because how are you going to get more staff on the concourse, and what would be the point of the company putting in expensive ticket machines (paid for by the taxpayer no doubt) all over the place.

Why don't they just say 'In order to reduce the taxpayer and government of subsidising the company (something of which that should of been done in 1994 i hasten to add) we are going to reduce the headcount of actual directly employed staff and where possible replace with no one or at best with outside contractors with inferior terms and wages.' Rather then using the euphemism 'McNulty'? We certainly in the industrial know what McNulty means so why doesn't the government tell us directly what the plans are. Its all smoke and mirrors with them.

I would also expect to see some change on Metro services; currently, unlike elsewhere on the SW network, the guards are not "commercial" and this is where the new trains will be going. Plus I wouldn't expect any new rolling stock not to be DCO capable - if only that it would make it more transferable in future. I would, however, in light of what has happened elsewhere, be very surprised if it involved removal of the guards.

Plus, I quote the ITT:

Initiatives to improve train service operations in ways that will generate long-term passenger benefits or operational improvements that will continue to accrue after the end of the Franchise Term. This could include the implementation of Driver Controlled Operation (DCO). Where DCO is proposed, the Department would require the franchisee to undertake appropriate consultation (with passengers and the workforce) including about supporting the continual development of the professional skills of on-train staff, in particular in relation to the onboard customer service passengers attach most value to.

Stations, I agree that we will see changes in function, with less staff in ticket offices. This is something that I expect to see in most bids going forward. But it's going to be driven more by 'Smart' ticketing (including barcodes) than more TVMs.

The ITT certainly had lots of requirements around Smart ticketing.

 

[northwichcat]

3+3 seating FTW!

Increasing capacity quite often means removing a seat in each row where 3+2 is fitted as more standing passengers can fit in the same space - look at the proposal for the Northern 333s.

 

[HH]

3+3 seating FTW!

Or you could reduce First Class...

 

[GW43125]

Or you could reduce First Class...

You'll p*ss the reading commuters right off!

 

[higthomas]

Does anyone know whether there will be a later last train for Guildford? It says so in the summary, but in the more detailed part it doesn't mention one specifically.

 

[GW43125]

It mentions "earlier first train to reading". guess this will be down only, not up?

 

[HH]

You'll p*ss the reading commuters right off!

Some might say that First have already been doing that for years...

 

[GW43125]

Some might say that First have already been doing that for years...

This is very true

 

[infobleep]

Stagecoach Statement: http://www.stagecoach.com/media/new...x?hootPostID=a00defd32528158a9b2b10d42e364721

This what what Stagecoach say they have done or are committed to delivery in the case of the 30%

Pioneering better integration of train and track in partnership with Network Rail to provide better journeys for customers, including at times of disruption
Driving plans which will deliver a 30% increase in train capacity at the busiest times of the day by 2018 - with further capacity improvements to come.

This is what the government press release says:

The new franchise will see closer partnership working between track and train. A railway that is predominantly run by an integrated local team of people with a commitment to the smooth operation of their routes, improving services and performance, is at the heart of Secretary of State’s vision for the network and First MTR South Western Trains Limited expects to work even closer with Network Rail, with the shared aim of giving passengers exactly that.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...n-trains-limited-wins-south-western-franchise

From the First press release:

Morning and evening peak seats at Waterloo boosted by 30% by December 2020

http://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup/uk-rail/improving-south-western-railway.aspx

So South West Trains were committed to a capacity increaw by 2018 and First are committed by 2020. Were South West Trains being unrealistic?

 

[FenMan]

That is good news as it means no having to walk between North Camp and Ash for the official fastest journey. I never did that mind you but officially that was the promoted journey.

I look forward to seeing what else has changed. Maybe an improvement for services from Surbtion to Woking between 18.41 and 19.59 inclusive. Currently no fast or semi cast services run at that time.

I don't know and DOO though.

I read at as an hourly service between Farnham and Guildford, with Camberley - Guildford dropping to hourly to accommodate it. Presumably the other Camberley - Aldershot service will start/stop short at Aldershot.

"35 services a day" = 17/18 each way = hourly.

 

[wibble]

The devil will be in the detail, maybe removing the stop at Woking would save some time and some of the timetable 'padding' between Clapham & Waterloo.

Could be through removing Woking and Basingstoke stops! Have a look at the Attachment 1, Part 1 document