New Street Hot Spare

[Simon11]

Maybe a spare 170 at the Birmingham Depo- Tysley?

 

[MCR247]

I think there normally is a hot spare at New St

 

[O L Leigh]

I believe I may have already answered that one. Yes there is a spare Cl170 kept at New Street.

O L Leigh

 

[dvboy]

I believe I may have already answered that one. Yes there is a spare Cl170 kept at New Street.

O L Leigh

Sorry, missed that in your post!

Would rather see it used to strenghten some 2-car Leicester services.

 

[Qwerty133]

Sorry, missed that in your post!

Would rather see it used to strenghten some 2-car Leicester services.

Would be a brilliant idea however some guards don't seem to capable at looking more than 2 cars down a platform and some dont like working double sets as it 'causes lots of problems'

 

[Tomnick]

When we've finished staff-bashing again, can we consider the purpose of the hot spare and how the 'brilliant idea' would inevitably result in cancellations because the incoming stock has been delayed and there's nothing else to pick up the next working? As almost everyone else has suggested, such spare units allow the service to be recovered quickly, whereas you'll end up carrying delays for hours if you try to keep everything on its diagram.

 

[TheBigD]

It's only spare until late afternoon when it then works the 1739 New Street - Derby...

 

[Goatboy]

It's only spare until late afternoon when it then works the 1739 New Street - Derby...

Which presumably gets cancelled every time the spare is used as there is almost no way of getting it back to New Street in time for 1739?

 

[AlexS]

They use whatever happens to be available but it does seem to be the first train to get cancelled if there's problems. It's not unknown for them to use the spare Voyager on it I think.

 

[MCR247]

Which presumably gets cancelled every time the spare is used as there is almost no way of getting it back to New Street in time for 1739?

Well it depends I guess. For example if a 170 failed working into New Street, then yes I guess there won't be anything to replace the spare, but if it gets brought into service to cover for a delayed train, then surely that will become spare?

 

[O L Leigh]

Not the greatest loss to the service given that it only goes out to Derby and then comes back empty. Besides, there it's possible that there might be another spare at Tyseley that can be wheeled out.

Not sure about Voyagers on the 1739, though. It would depend on driver traction knowledge. I have a feeling that this particular trip is done by a driver from the link that doesn't sign Voyagers.

O L Leigh

 

[Crossover]

Not the greatest loss to the service given that it only goes out to Derby and then comes back empty. Besides, there it's possible that there might be another spare at Tyseley that can be wheeled out.

It sounds like this diagram is done strategically so that if it were to be cancelled, it cancels a single (albeit peak-time) relatively short journey and doesn't muck up an entire diagram.

 

[Anvil1984]

Not the greatest loss to the service given that it only goes out to Derby and then comes back empty. Besides, there it's possible that there might be another spare at Tyseley that can be wheeled out.

Not sure about Voyagers on the 1739, though. It would depend on driver traction knowledge. I have a feeling that this particular trip is done by a driver from the link that doesn't sign Voyagers.

O L Leigh

Possibly could if there were any spare drivers to cover, you've got driver depots at Derby and Brum so its possibility. Its not unkown for one of the afternoon Nottinghams to be a Voyager with crew being traction conducted

 

[LexyBoy]

Interesting stuff. How long has this "hot spare" strategy been going?

Crosscountry does seem massively more reliable now than I remember it being back in Virgin days - I guess this must be a contributor, probably also the pruning of back of the network?

 

[brompton rail]

Interesting stuff. How long has this "hot spare" strategy been going?

Crosscountry does seem massively more reliable now than I remember it being back in Virgin days - I guess this must be a contributor, probably also the pruning of back of the network?

I believe it was part of XC's master plan, and yes their services are more reliable than when Virgin ran XC. Many delays here in Doncaster are caused by infrastructure problems, or East Coast's inability to run their trains to time.

Southbound Newcastle - Reading Voyagers follow East Coast services from Newcastle, some of which call at Northallerton. These EC services are often several minutes late with knock on effect on the following XC.

 

[AlexS]

Not the greatest loss to the service given that it only goes out to Derby and then comes back empty. Besides, there it's possible that there might be another spare at Tyseley that can be wheeled out.

Not sure about Voyagers on the 1739, though. It would depend on driver traction knowledge. I have a feeling that this particular trip is done by a driver from the link that doesn't sign Voyagers.

O L Leigh

Certainly seen it at Derby as a Voyager waiting to go empty back to Brum before - much like they have been known to kick a Voyager out on a Leicester stopping service occasionally (not particularly often though!).

 

[O L Leigh]

Yes, I am aware that it can happen and am not disputing that it has happened. However, as I said before, it depends on traincrew route and traction knowledge. It's no good whacking the spare Voyager out on a Cl170 diagram if there is no available traincrew competent to work it.

O L Leigh

 

[AlexS]

That does sort of go without saying! :P

I think the strangest thing I've seen out vice 170 is a class 222 that XC hired to run from Oakham and Melton to Leicester with an EMT Mainline crew during some disruption last year. It connected with a 170 at Leicester to go through to Birmingham.

I do wish I'd been on a few weeks ago to see a 170 shoving a dead dogbox into Leicester as well on the last Stansted-Birmingham
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Coincidentally in fact, 2D39 (1739) was a 220 today

 

[TheBigD]

I think the strangest thing I've seen out vice 170 is a class 222 that XC hired to run from Oakham and Melton to Leicester with an EMT Mainline crew during some disruption last year. It connected with a 170 at Leicester to go through to Birmingham.

XC didn't hire a 222.

Due to a knackered ballast near Whittlesea there was no Stanstead-Birmingham trains for nearly 4 hours. EMT's 1800 St Pancras-Melton Mowbray service was extended to Leicester. It normally runs ECS to Derby.

 

[AlexS]

Dunno whether it was extended or not, it was run under a different headcode though and now you mention it I recall thinking it was odd that it was down as starting from Melton at the time. There were, however, only about 15 people on the thing anyway, it made a same platform interchange with a Birmingham unit. I was originally told it was to be a 15x unit however that was revised before it left Melton to the 222 that eventually appeared, so an extension to the Melton service does make sense.

 

[dvboy]

Believe the hot spare was put into action today, went ECS to Wolverhampton and started there at 11:15.

I guess it's easier to start from Wolverhampton than move it to a platform at Birmingham New Street.

 

[O L Leigh]

I guess it's easier to start from Wolverhampton than move it to a platform at Birmingham New Street.

Do you...?

But then, you are just guessing.

O L Leigh

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That sounds to me more like they terminated something faulty at Wolverhampton rather than New Street.

Maybe bearing in mind that New Street is two platforms down while the work there is ongoing it was easier to swap the units at Wolverhampton for platform capacity reasons..?

 

[MCR247]

If it was working a service South, maybe they had time to send it to Wolverhampton, so they did?

 

[Geezertronic]

Do you...?

But then, you are just guessing.

O L Leigh

I would guess that it would cause more disruption around New Street to take it from its stabled position and place it at a platform at New Street due to the potential of crossing movements and a reversal. Just a guess but sending the unit from its stabled position to Wolves is the easier of the two options

 

[craigybagel]

It worked Wolves-Manchester in the path of a late running Bournemouth-Manchester that had been trapped between Coventry and Birmingham International due to a signalling problem that caused a fair bit of disruption yesterday. West Midlands-Euston services were being diverted via Stafford at one point.

 

[The Planner]

You would be surprised at the magic New St box can conjour up when it comes to fitting trains in around there....

 

[O L Leigh]

I would guess that it would cause more disruption around New Street to take it from its stabled position and place it at a platform at New Street due to the potential of crossing movements and a reversal. Just a guess but sending the unit from its stabled position to Wolves is the easier of the two options

Normally a unit will go "around the houses" either via Soho or Camp Hill/Lifford, or it might simply go out to where the old Exchange Sidings used to be onto the Up & Down Camp Hill and come back in from there. This move is still referred to as going out to Exchange. Alternatively, depending on platforming, a unit can simply go through the lead and straight into the platform or back again.

Simples.

O L Leigh

 

[Martin_1981]

Certainly seen it at Derby as a Voyager waiting to go empty back to Brum before - much like they have been known to kick a Voyager out on a Leicester stopping service occasionally (not particularly often though!).

Yes, Voyagers are cleared as far as Leicester, don't think they are cleared beyond there towards Stansted though.

 

[Qwerty133]

Yes, Voyagers are cleared as far as Leicester, don't think they are cleared beyond there towards Stansted though.

I presume that A lot of drivers/ guards will also have knowledge to leicester as it is often used as a diversion on voyager routes. On that note are HSTs cleared between leicester and Birmingham?