They weren't designed to, and they can't. Of course anything is technically speaking possible, but it's a question of whether the 'juice is worth the squeeze' so to speak. As Abellio have demonstrated with several of their other franchises (e.g. WMT, GA), the cost of buying new trains is so cheap by historic standards (or perhaps existing trains are so expensive) that having to do substantial amounts of work on a particular type of train often won't be worth the money. That's quite ignoring the fact that new trains will have cleaner emissions (a boon for the likes of St Pancras), more seats, and be better for passengers (well, in theory!).Can't class 222s be made to work with 220s and 221s?
I don't see that there is any need to make them compatible. Just permanently pair them up with compatible units (i.e. 220/221 together and 222 together) into 9-car formations (a 4 and a 5) and maybe the odd 10 and standalone 7.
I travelled Manchester to Norwich quite regularly last year and seemed to be just about the only passenger in my carriage travelling that far.A split in the Norwich - Liverpool service is a real backwards step.
Although a lot on here try and claim everyone just goes via London whenever it's discussed as a semi regular user of the service I see the opposite. Really disappointing.
This doesn't seem necessary to me, either keep them as they are or if you need uniformality form them back into 4 and 9 car units.Without loosing any end coaches you could have:
1*10 coach (2*5 coach units)
7*8 coach (2*4 coach units)
11 * 7 coach (1*7 coach units)
That would be enough to allow all the 220's to be run as pairs permanently, and given that there's already a few services which runs as pairs on XC, possibly a good number of the 221's as well.
Even if you lost the HST's that's still a significant increase in capacity for most services.
Alternatively, you could scrap a load of end coaches and have 11 * 10 coach trains, which would allow the removal of the HST's and 6 extra 10 coach trains to allow extra capacity (not only on the 6 services, but also by freeing up 6-12 units which could be used to strengthen other services).
Alternatively, you could scrap a load of end coaches and have 11 * 10 coach trains, which would allow the removal of the HST's and 6 extra 10 coach trains to allow extra capacity (not only on the 6 services, but also by freeing up 6-12 units which could be used to strengthen other services).
Class 222s have steel shells; would be costly, but could the driving ends be rebuilt as intermediate ones to change the mix between end and intermediate vehicles?
I think Abellio are being a bit dumb here. Use the 222's on Liverpool-Norwich services just to help with capacity.
And as some have said about XC having them, that's ok but talking of getting rid of the HST's is diabolical as they are spending money on refurbishing them. Just No guys.
XC's won't be Cactus. So far touch wood none have caught fire unlike most other TOC's.Liverpool to Norwich is being split at Nottingham!
The HSTs are over 40 years old and falling apart, and need to go!
Presumably his definition of 'new' for the regional fleet is "new to the region" not "new" as in brand new out of the factory.Rail Minister Andrew Jones said this in Parliament :
“We will see an entirely new fleet of trains—a full replacement fleet—come into service. Inter-city services will receive new bi-mode trains, and regional services will receive new diesel trains. The express fleet, which is the Corby-Bedford-London service, will receive new electric trains that offer significantly enhanced environmental improvements.”
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commo...F-914B-96F43098DC84/EastMidlandsRailFranchise
TPE and Northern still haven’t introduced their various new trains announced in 2016.
Will either of those operators want or be able to take over another route ?
It clearly says in both the DfT and Abellio press releases refurbished modern trains for regional services. I suspect the minister is being a politician in that 'new' means whatever you want it to mean. I'd take those documents over a single comment from a minister that can be read multiple ways. It does imply the existing fleet may be heading for the bin though.
The 158s won't be scrapped. I can say that at least.It's not overly surprising that the existing fleet (excluding the 222's) would be scrapped due to their age (circa 30 years old now and would be quite a bit older than that at the end of the franchise).
Although I do wonder if there's scope for another franchise to use some as a stop gap until their franchise is relet if they would otherwise be surplus to requirements (Northern and SWR would appear to be the obvious candidates).
The 158s won't be scrapped. I can say that at least.
Abellio will probably swap them with the TfW units so they can say they swapped the entire fleet.I'm inclined to agree. I'm still 50/50 on whether they'll be leaving at all. I'm sure it'll come out in the next few months.
While the West Midlands Railway 170s become available next year (2020), Transport for Wales Rail Services will operate the last of the 175s until sometime in 2022 and the first ones will go off lease in late 2021 - the next operator of them is best off being the person controlling the crusher; they're just not the reliable solid trains that 170s are. There's a reason the 175s are going first and the 158s are being withdrawn slightly later. Out of your four boxes, I say the one on the top left with the 158s and 170s is the best optionI've been thinking about the regional fleet, and have had a few ideas based on what rolling stock might will be available in the future (but I haven't looked at the dates of release for this new(er) stock). My ideas are in this picture.
Bear in mind that the transfer away of LIV-NOT will release some diagrams. It's about 2.5 hours from Liverpool to Nottingham, so I suspect there are 6 diagrams to be released. As they run as 2x158, 12 class 158s would be released. However, with the eastern end of the route (from Norwich) being extended to Derby, that's an extra diagram. Therefore I calculate that 11 class 158s could be released.
To make the speculation easier, I have swapped the 6 WMR class 170/6s with the 6 XC class 170/5s, giving XC a 50% increase in capacity (well, on these 6 units at least!) and a uniform 23x170/5 fleet available for transfer to other operators from WMR.
View attachment 61502
What does the forum think?
Presumably his definition of 'new' for the regional fleet is "new to the region" not "new" as in brand new out of the factory.
It would seem mad to scrap them while GWR and Northern still have 150s and 156s.I'm inclined to agree. I'm still 50/50 on whether they'll be leaving at all. I'm sure it'll come out in the next few months.
It would seem mad to scrap them while GWR and Northern still have 150s and 156s.
They won't be scrapped and neither will the 156s. Northern have stated they want to start getting rid of Sprinters before the end of the franchise. They cannot get rid of all of them but could get rid of most 150s.
Class 45 expresses used to pull at least 8 coaches, yet nowadays many of the Meridians are only 4 or 5-car units with lots of people standing during the peak.
if i remember correctly :Yes, but at what frequency?