No toilets - Crosscountry cardiff - nottingham

[DarloRich]

Regardin a toilet stop, would this be guarenteed to be at a station where the toilets are free to use? If not, what happens if the passenger does not have the correct money to go through the barrier to access the toilet?

Goodness me! I am sure a quick chat with the attendant would sort out the problem. :roll:

 

[bb21]

After so much discussion, how big a problem is this on 170s? In all these years I can remember one occasion when a CrossCountry 170 had both toilets out, and only one occasion when both toilets on a 185 were out.

 

[DarloRich]

After so much discussion, how big a problem is this on 170s? In all these years I can remember one occasion when a CrossCountry 170 had both toilets out, and only one occasion when both toilets on a 185 were out.

I cant say I have ever been on a train with all toilets OOU but it does seem to happen on LM now and again. TPE seem to have issues with blockages as described up thread.

 

[Llanigraham]

Not wanting to be antagonistic..............but what would happen if a 'comfort' break was not available to a member of a train crew? Would the service be cancelled?

You know those bottles that look like Lucozade you see by the side of the motorway............................

 

[DarloRich]

You know those bottles that look like Lucozade you see by the side of the motorway............................

NEVER move a track side pop bottle that isn't empty.

 

[DelayRepay]

Regardin a toilet stop, would this be guarenteed to be at a station where the toilets are free to use? If not, what happens if the passenger does not have the correct money to go through the barrier to access the toilet?

Actually this highlights a good point; if the TOCs were not as penny pinching and provided free toilets at their stations instead of charging 30p or whatever, maybe more people would go at the station and therefore fewer people would go on the train. Meaning the TOCs reduce the risk of having to take toilets out of service due to the tanks being full.

 

[paulfoel]

How about from the profits?
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Really? If it's not the TOC who arranges the emptying who does? If the tanks are filling up regularly they're not being emptied often enough. It's not rocket science.

EXACTLY. This was the 645am train from Cardiff not the train at 2300 that had been used all day. I find it hard to believe that ALL toilets were full from use THAT DAY. If that was indeed the fault, more likely that no-one had bothered to empty them then overnight?
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Or perhaps AXC could arrange to empty the toilet tanks at a correct interval such that they don't get full?
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It is a cost to the business to provide the advertised toilet facilities, the answer is "either of the above" as appropriate.

Exactly. They still get paid if they dont provide toliets to they don't care. Same with the heating. So it doesnt work properly - hey ho - deflect the odd moan but who cares.

Yes, I've seem the explanation about the heating but bottom line is I'm on this train same time every day. Some days the carriage is warm, somedays its about 15 degress colder. Explain that.
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If a thread was made asking why an XC run was cancelled and someone replied saying it was because there were no available toilets onboard, would you be ok with that? Or would you then slate XC taking the easy way out and say that they should've ran it with toilet breaks as required :roll:

I would ask why there were no available toilets on board and why this issue was not able to be sorted beforehand.
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A toilet stop? A bit like the OP was offered??

Bear in mind that a lot of stations dont have toliets. Newport - Gloucester 50 mins. Like I said wouldn't be much good for my friend who has Crohns. He'd be behind a bush at Lydney maybe.

Whats the suggestion then? Oh well, you can get the next train. That idea works well if your on your way to work. Sorry Im late - the trains toilets were broke and I didn't want to sh*t myself so I missed the train. That'd be nice.

If I've ever got to ask the guard to stop at a station and wait for me, I'll be taking the paper with me and they can wait
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And a **** load of money

As does my season ticket for which I expect a basic service.
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1M00 this morning?

? 655 XC newport to nottingham (from cardiff)
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Looks to me like TOCs trying to do things on the cheap by not allowing enough service time to empty the toilets etc. If this sort of thing happens at all frequently it is a sign that their practice needs to be looked at.
And not all stations have toilets that are [a] easily accessible from the platforms easily accessible for disabled passengers or [c] permanently open without the need for a key from the staff. Let alone the delay caused if more than one or two people needed to use them.

Can imagine it'd take hours if 2/3 people decided to get off per stop. Think the TOC know full well that people will be too embarrassed to ask.

 

[ComUtoR]

Exactly. They still get paid if they dont provide toliets to they don't care. Same with the heating. So it doesnt work properly - hey ho - deflect the odd moan but who cares.

I agree. We don't care. What we should do is to charge for on-board toilets. I reckon £2 should be about right.

 

[SPADTrap]

Actually this highlights a good point; if the TOCs were not as penny pinching and provided free toilets at their stations instead of charging 30p or whatever, maybe more people would go at the station and therefore fewer people would go on the train. Meaning the TOCs reduce the risk of having to take toilets out of service due to the tanks being full.

Isn't this a Network Rail remit?

 

[bb21]

Isn't this a Network Rail remit?

It is in most cases, but doesn't stop people having a moan at the TOCs.
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EXACTLY. This was the 645am train from Cardiff not the train at 2300 that had been used all day. I find it hard to believe that ALL toilets were full from use THAT DAY. If that was indeed the fault, more likely that no-one had bothered to empty them then overnight?

Did you ever bother to ask CrossCountry and find out why, instead of moaning on here? There may be a perfectly legitimate reason.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair, have you ever written to a TOC and got a considered reply rather than just a fob off and some RTVs? I'm not convinced I have, and not for want of trying. Last time I got that was back in the days when David Whitley (then Marketing Manager) did LM Twitter himself.

 

[bb21]

To be fair, have you ever written to a TOC and got a considered reply rather than just a fob off and some RTVs? I'm not convinced I have, and not for want of trying. Last time I got that was back in the days when David Whitley (then Marketing Manager) did LM Twitter himself.

If you get one from me, you will have a very detailed reply answering all your points, but that doesn't stop some people dismissing them as fobbing them off.

I have had good replies from XC, but without even giving it a go, how does one know there wouldn't be one forthcoming?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I suppose this is the downside of CET tanks. Nobody really wants to continue to deposit human waste onto the tracks, but the industry has been slow to catch up with the emptying side of things. There's also the fact that services like Cardiff to Nottingham and TPE services now run with 3 carriages rather than the 6 or 7 in the past. Those six or seven carriages generally had 2 (small, tankless ones admittedly) toilets each. There's also strict rules on how the waste is disposed of once the tanks are emptied so it would be expensive to fit equipment to depots or stabling points that don't already have it.

If someone can come up with a way of safely dealing with waste at termini they'll be quids in though!

 

[talltim]

How much more are you willing to add to your ticket? That is the simple calculation as the TOC wont do anything beyond what their franchise requires them to do.

Less profit for the TOC

 

[quarella]

It is in most cases, but doesn't stop people having a moan at the TOCs.
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Did you ever bother to ask CrossCountry and find out why, instead of moaning on here? There may be a perfectly legitimate reason.

This thread does seem to have become bogged down on the failure to empty retention tanks, which I am not not disputing. Maybe sometimes due to a failure of another train keeping one away from the depot longer than planned. However as others have mentioned there are many other reasons for an on board toilet to be out of use such as a need for specialist cleaning or wanton vandalism.

 

[sarahj]

Folks go on about the 30p charge, but on our network only 2 stations have them, Brighton and Vic. All the others are free.

And I've done toilet stops before, one even for me!!!!

One night I was working a 313 into Brighton. Guy came up and asked about the lav. Sorry, no Lav. OK. If he had said he was desperate, toilet on Hove, will be there in 4, next train, 10 mins. But no, he got off at Aldrington and proceeded to **** on the platform, shouting at me to wait. I did not.

 

[A0wen]

TOCs to plan properly.

Go on then - humour us.

What are your credentials for stating that the planning isn't being done properly?

As someone else has posted, the toilets may be out of action for other reasons that being full.

This is a bit like your complaint last week when LM couldn't obtain coaches whilst claiming that the roads were fine - when in fact one of the main routes into Northampton was actually closed due to flooding.....

 

[6Gman]

This thread does seem to have become bogged down on the failure to empty retention tanks, which I am not not disputing. Maybe sometimes due to a failure of another train keeping one away from the depot longer than planned. However as others have mentioned there are many other reasons for an on board toilet to be out of use such as a need for specialist cleaning or wanton vandalism.

I'd also be interested to know how often the problem actually arises? This thread started with a complaint about one train on a specific day.

 

[hounddog]

As someone else has posted, the toilets may be out of action for other reasons that being full.

.

So you don't know either.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd also be interested to know how often the problem actually arises? This thread started with a complaint about one train on a specific day.

On LM it is quite common to have at least one not working, and both not working in a 4 car unit is more common than it should be.

 

[krus_aragon]

Regardin a toilet stop, would this be guarenteed to be at a station where the toilets are free to use? If not, what happens if the passenger does not have the correct money to go through the barrier to access the toilet?

Given that such a toilet stop would be made “on the way” during a service, how many non-terminus stations charge for using the facilities. I can only think of Manchester Piccadilly offhand.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Given that such a toilet stop would be made “on the way” during a service, how many non-terminus stations charge for using the facilities. I can only think of Manchester Piccadilly offhand.

Leeds concourse toilets charge 40p (and based on last time I was in there I'd question whether the charge deters antisocial behaviour or vandalism!) but the ones on the platform 12-15 island don't. Those ones are ALWAYS in a sorry state!

 

[Crossover]

Just to pick up on an earlier point, does anyone know what sorts of volumes these CET tanks hold?

On a related note, I struggle to see why tanking facilities are not provided at terminus stations. Why should a passenger have to rely on a train being timetabled to return to a depot to be able to use the loo? It's a basic human function, and on long distance journeys, it's simply unacceptable to not cater for it (as seems to be happening quite routinely.)

What a great idea...so instead of walking into Manchester Piccadilly to the smell of diesel fumes and whatever they used to clean out the "drip trays", you walk into the smell of s*** - no thanks! Aside from which, it would more than likely be a health hazard too as well as downright unpleasant

As for the amount of kit you need to do it, this should give you an idea

http://www.railway-technology.com/contractors/yard/airquick2/airquick26.html
http://www.railway-technology.com/contractors/yard/airquick2/airquick24.html

After so much discussion, how big a problem is this on 170s? In all these years I can remember one occasion when a CrossCountry 170 had both toilets out, and only one occasion when both toilets on a 185 were out.

I've had them all out on a 185 at least 3 times that I can remember (and there was a further case where drunks had managed to break an otherwise working accessible one on a late night service)

Not seen them out of service on the likes of 170's before, but they have often run out of water for hand washing, which is a bit of a pain

One just tends to get an idea that if on the likes of a 333, 334 and the like, it is best to work on the assumption that the sole (usually computer controlled) toilet will be out of use for some reason. On the likes of Voyagers it would be an unfortunate situation for it to be the case

Given that such a toilet stop would be made “on the way” during a service, how many non-terminus stations charge for using the facilities. I can only think of Manchester Piccadilly offhand.

Not that many, actually, at least not on the platform side (Leeds has paid for on the concourse but free to use on the platform, for example)
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Given that such a toilet stop would be made “on the way” during a service, how many non-terminus stations charge for using the facilities. I can only think of Manchester Piccadilly offhand.

Birmingham New Street

 

[Dr Hoo]

The toilets at Birmingham New Street are free to use.

 

[A0wen]

So you don't know either.

No, I don't - but I wasn't pretending to.

 

[Minilad]

Just as an update. The train concerned left Cardiff with the disabled toilet OOU. The other toilet though was working OK. Fitters attended later in the journey and the disabled toilet was returned to a functioning state. The fact the disabled toilet was OOU was circulated via tyrell.
So for all the talk on here of full tanks the problem wasn't due to that.
As usual on here many ex spurts have given ideas which are unworkable, undesirable, expensive all for a problem that happens once in a very blue moon.

 

[paulfoel]

Just as an update. The train concerned left Cardiff with the disabled toilet OOU. The other toilet though was working OK. Fitters attended later in the journey and the disabled toilet was returned to a functioning state. The fact the disabled toilet was OOU was circulated via tyrell.
So for all the talk on here of full tanks the problem wasn't due to that.
As usual on here many ex spurts have given ideas which are unworkable, undesirable, expensive all for a problem that happens once in a very blue moon.

The board at newport though displayed "No toilets available on this train". Not just the disabled one. So perhaps a bit of miscommunication.

 

[6Gman]

On LM it is quite common to have at least one not working, and both not working in a 4 car unit is more common than it should be.

But what does "quite common" and "more common than it should be" actually mean?

10%, 5%, 1%, 0.1%?

 

[Llanigraham]

On LM it is quite common to have at least one not working, and both not working in a 4 car unit is more common than it should be.

Can you provide EVIDENCE of that?
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Just as an update. The train concerned left Cardiff with the disabled toilet OOU. The other toilet though was working OK. Fitters attended later in the journey and the disabled toilet was returned to a functioning state. The fact the disabled toilet was OOU was circulated via tyrell.
So for all the talk on here of full tanks the problem wasn't due to that.
As usual on here many ex spurts have given ideas which are unworkable, undesirable, expensive all for a problem that happens once in a very blue moon.

Can you clarify; was this the ONLY toilet on this train?
Or is the OP making a mountain out of a pimple?

 

[mbreckers]

The retrofits on the ScotRail 320's are also pretty abysmal and I have seen a fair few of them go out of service (which the computer has decided, of course)

Can confirm, as a companion for a wheelchair user I regularly sit next to these toilets, and it's normal to watch the toilet constantly going in and out of use, making random noises and clunks, all while nobody is even near it