Northern cancellations creeping up again?

[ianBR]

Maybes the fax machines were out of paper so northern drivers didn’t know where they should be?

 

[childwallblues]

I had a bad day on Tuesday. Got to Ormskirk for the 0946 to Preston. This was cancelled as was the 1046. I understand that an RRB was put on at 1115. Anyway I returned to Sandhills and headed to Headbolt Lane. A delay to this service with all trains sitting at Fazakerley in excess of 10 minutes due to only a single line being available. By the time I reached Headbolt Lane the 1053 to Blackburn had departed and the 1153 was cancelled.

 

[dh57]

You mean "unfocussed" by not coming to work on their days off ?

Well that just confirms the rail industry is not interested in passengers (read as paying customers) and has zero regard for them. To follow up yesterdays 3 consecutive cancellations at Romiley from 8:30am yesterday there are now three cancellations on the bounce from 8:12. The 8:12 is the service from Sheffield picking up people Bamford, Hope and Edale towards Manchester.

How many hundreds of people is that who will now be unable to get to jobs, job interviews maybe and other appointments?

And of course the cancellations work in the other direction so even if you can get to your destination there is not guarantee you can get back conveniently. and because of the cancellations the trains will be crowded.

People will turn away from the railways and seek alternatives. I will probably set my alarm for half an hour earlier and drive in next week. See if that is a viable alternative.

Unfortunately this week is half-term kid’s holiday week in South Yorkshire & at time’s getting childcare cover can be very difficult & expensive. These issues could be part of the reason of an increase in cancellations this week.

Other industries seem to be coping. Buses are still running and deliveries are still being made.

 

[mandub]

Ref Romiley service specifically.
Is crewed from Man Picc & the drivers job sheets are all fully covered.
I know the Sheffield's etc are being cancelled this week but it's down to lack of units and lack of guards (Picc guard turnover is horrendously high)

 

[dh57]

Ref Romiley service specifically.
Is crewed from Man Picc & the drivers job sheets are all fully covered.
I know the Sheffield's etc are being cancelled this week but it's down to lack of units and lack of guards (Picc guard turnover is horrendously high)

When you are a customer/passenger all you know is the train you are relying on hasn't arrived.

I do love the railways. I'm just not sure the railway industry loves its passengers.

 

[Killingworth]

When you are a customer/passenger all you know is the train you are relying on hasn't arrived.

I do love the railways. I'm just not sure the railway industry loves its passengers.

Currently Northern certainly doesn't love its passengers. As far as they're concerned they're being used as hostages in a 3 way battle between TOC, government and unions.

6-12 months ago most services ran reasonably well. Strikes occurred but users could plan around them with some certainty. Not so today. Any train could be cancelled and the next, then the one after. If you get there you might not get back.

What do users do? They don't travel at all. They make alternative arrangements to make sure their journey is made in both directions. They avoid trains.

Net result will be loss of long term business to the railway just when it was recovering.

This may be a recent situation on some lines but on the last 10 Sundays on the Hope Valley line the same 1 in 3 services has been cancelled the night before and maybe others on the day. Encouraging users to buy Advance tickets for this standard of service is a ridiculous waste of effort. It may well be counter-productive in that the hacked off traveller once bitten will be twice shy.

 

[yorksrob]

Currently Northern certainly doesn't love its passengers. As far as they're concerned they're being used as hostages in a 3 way battle between TOC, government and unions.

6-12 months ago most services ran reasonably well. Strikes occurred but users could plan around them with some certainty. Not so today. Any train could be cancelled and the next, then the one after. If you get there you might not get back.

What do users do? They don't travel at all. They make alternative arrangements to make sure their journey is made in both directions. They avoid trains.

Net result will be loss of long term business to the railway just when it was recovering.

This may be a recent situation on some lines but on the last 10 Sundays on the Hope Valley line the same 1 in 3 services has been cancelled the night before and maybe others on the day. Encouraging users to buy Advance tickets for this standard of service is a ridiculous waste of effort. It may well be counter-productive in that the hacked off traveller once bitten will be twice shy.

What's changed, out of interest ?

Some of us have experienced the worst of the strikes.

What's still outstanding ?

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Unfortunately this week is half-term kid’s holiday week in South Yorkshire & at time’s getting childcare cover can be very difficult & expensive. These issues could be part of the reason of an increase in cancellations this week.

Yes, it's been an utter shambles this week. Yet we continue to shrug our shoulders and just put up with it while Northern send us cheery emails telling us to "go do your thing", whatever that means. You can't go and do your thing if 3 out of every 4 trains on your line are cancelled!

 

[Pinus contorta]

It was a waste of time today trying to travel from Preston to Marple and back. I spent half the day on the noethern rail and bee network apps knowing it was going to to go pear shaped. And I ended up using the bus to complete my journey. I can see why folk think it's a shambles. Even the trains that were supposed to be still in the timetable today started to mysteriously vanish from the departure board ad hoc.

 

[jayah]

Well that just confirms the rail industry is not interested in passengers (read as paying customers) and has zero regard for them. To follow up yesterdays 3 consecutive cancellations at Romiley from 8:30am yesterday there are now three cancellations on the bounce from 8:12. The 8:12 is the service from Sheffield picking up people Bamford, Hope and Edale towards Manchester.

Other industries seem to be coping. Buses are still running and deliveries are still being made.

There is a reason why buses, taxis, FOCs and open access are all working.

Their livelihoods depend on doing what their customers are paying for. On the franchised, nationalised railway this is not the case.

 

[scrapy]

Their livelihoods depend on doing what their customers are paying for. On the franchised, nationalised railway this is not the case.

As far as I'm aware the drivers and guards are turning up for their booked shifts.

 

[Harpo]

Those who finger point at staff for not volunteering to work extra days and hours, but failing to mention the DfT/TOC managers who have created a seriously understaffed operation, need to give their heads a wobble.

 

[dh57]

Those who finger point at staff for not volunteering to work extra days and hours, but failing to mention the DfT/TOC managers who have created a seriously understaffed operation, need to give their heads a wobble.

To be direct, you should think about the customer experience and how you are driving people away.

Next week I will be going in by car because I can't trust the service provided by the railways any more.

 

[AndyHudds]

That's a good point. My office has been practically empty this week.

Last week was pretty dismal for train cancellations as well though.

This puzzles me, the half term and school holiday issue. Just because you have children it does not automatically give you the right, unless you have a term time only contract or an annualised hours contract, to take school holidays.

An employer should only grant leave on a first come first serve basis on what the service/business can accommodate. If Northern are letting too many people have school holidays on the basis that employees have kids and it's causing issues with fulfilling the service they offer one has to ask what the heck are they doing that for?

I work for a public sector employer snd if the time off is fully booked up you don't get it.

 

[sportzbar]

To be direct, you should think about the customer experience and how you are driving people away.

Next week I will be going in by car because I can't trust the service provided by the railways any more.

We as staff do think about the customers. It's embarrassing when you are stood on a platform and the train is suddenly cancelled. We as staff are turning up for work as required. So I fail to see how we as staff, turning up every day to work nonexistent trains are "driving people away".

Do tell me how when I book on for my shift later today I personally can stop "driving people away". Perhaps you are one of those people who Harpo said should give their heads a wobble.....?

 

[Halwynd]

Those who finger point at staff for not volunteering to work extra days and hours, but failing to mention the DfT/TOC managers who have created a seriously understaffed operation, need to give their heads a wobble.

At some point very soon, DOHL are going to have acknowledge that Tricia Williams is not the right person for the job.

Managing and recovering a failing, highly unionised organisation is never going to be easy and it needs someone with a lot more experience of running a railway.

 

[dh57]

I probably am. But I still need to get to work on time as I quite like the income it brings in to pay the mortgage.

Maybe you need to wobble your head whilst thinking about how all actions or even inactions have consequences.

 

[skyhigh]

An employer should only grant leave on a first come first serve basis on what the service/business can accommodate.

And that's how it works. There is a set number of people who can have leave each week.

 

[43096]

Those who finger point at staff for not volunteering to work extra days and hours, but failing to mention the DfT/TOC managers who have created a seriously understaffed operation, need to give their heads a wobble.

Everyone is culpable: DfT, management, unions and staff. Despite all the “restructuring”, “productivity improvements” and enormous pay rises dished out (particularly to drivers) since privatisation, there has been little attempt to fix this issue. The biggest productivity improvement would be to actually have staff available to work a 7-day service reliably.

 

[Halwynd]

Yes, it's been an utter shambles this week. Yet we continue to shrug our shoulders and just put up with it while Northern send us cheery emails telling us to "go do your thing", whatever that means. You can't go and do your thing if 3 out of every 4 trains on your line are cancelled!

Those weekly emails are just a wind-up... Northern must be completely tone-deaf.

 

[trainophile]

Two consecutive Lancaster to Morecambe trains cancelled at very short notice last Weds evening. Ended up on a RRB. To be fair it was a lovely coach, but not nice having to hang around at that time of the evening. I just caught the Lancaster information office before it closed otherwise I wouldn't have known about the bus. (Very) short notice changes to the timetable shouldn't be allowed.

 

[The exile]

This puzzles me, the half term and school holiday issue. Just because you have children it does not automatically give you the right, unless you have a term time only contract or an annualised hours contract, to take school holidays.

An employer should only grant leave on a first come first serve basis on what the service/business can accommodate. If Northern are letting too many people have school holidays on the basis that employees have kids and it's causing issues with fulfilling the service they offer one has to ask what the heck are they doing that for?

I work for a public sector employer snd if the time off is fully booked up you don't get it.

Sure that applies on the railway as well - the issue is that in half term weeks fewer people will volunteer to give up their rest days/work overtime. Would you (for example) say yes to a request at less than 24 hours notice on a Sunday that happens to be the day you’re taking your children out on a special pre-booked trip?

 

[yorksrob]

This puzzles me, the half term and school holiday issue. Just because you have children it does not automatically give you the right, unless you have a term time only contract or an annualised hours contract, to take school holidays.

An employer should only grant leave on a first come first serve basis on what the service/business can accommodate. If Northern are letting too many people have school holidays on the basis that employees have kids and it's causing issues with fulfilling the service they offer one has to ask what the heck are they doing that for?

I work for a public sector employer snd if the time off is fully booked up you don't get it.

What surprises me is that half term and annual leave have been around for ever, yet up until the last few weeks, the Hallam line has had a pretty reliable service. Why now ?

 

[waterboo]

It just seems that up here in the north, we have never have a joined up, well running system. Since Summer 2018, it has always been either TPE or Northern having a meltdown (excluding COVID). It shows how pathetic and useless that Transport for the North committee is in holding operators to account - just a big old winge-fest with little action.

 

[richfoz84]

Northern have had many drivers and guards leave this year, either to other TOCs or leaving the industry!
They can’t replace them quickly enough.
Another problem is the training takes way longer than it should. Plus operational issues. And a poor standard of applications coming through for new staff (one is use of AI to complete applications). I don’t know what the answer is, but I’d expect the problem will get a lot worse before it starts to improve.

 

[yorksrob]

It just seems that up here in the north, we have never have a joined up, well running system. Since Summer 2018, it has always been either TPE or Northern having a meltdown (excluding COVID). It shows how pathetic and useless that Transport for the North committee is in holding operators to account - just a big old winge-fest with little action.

This is true - we never seem to have Northern and TPE up to scratch at the same time. Perhaps they keep poaching eachother's staff !

 

[Sheffcaster202]

Another problem is the training takes way longer than it should

How long should training take in your opinion?

 

[yorksrob]

Northern have had many drivers and guards leave this year, either to other TOCs or leaving the industry!
They can’t replace them quickly enough.
Another problem is the training takes way longer than it should. Plus operational issues. And a poor standard of applications coming through for new staff (one is use of AI to complete applications). I don’t know what the answer is, but I’d expect the problem will get a lot worse before it starts to improve.

Hopefully GBR will impose a more orderly system of transfers, rather than letting everyone jump ship willy-nilly.

 

[Ianigsy]

Northern have had many drivers and guards leave this year, either to other TOCs or leaving the industry!
They can’t replace them quickly enough.
Another problem is the training takes way longer than it should. Plus operational issues. And a poor standard of applications coming through for new staff (one is use of AI to complete applications). I don’t know what the answer is, but I’d expect the problem will get a lot worse before it starts to improve.

See also the earlier comment about turnover at Piccadilly - one of the things which probably works against Northern is that by definition most of their staff will be based around the major cities in Northern England so ripe for being poached when the long-distance operators are hiring qualified drivers on better money.

 

[sportzbar]

I probably am. But I still need to get to work on time as I quite like the income it brings in to pay the mortgage.

Maybe you need to wobble your head whilst thinking about how all actions or even inactions have consequences.

I need to give my head a wobble? So once again I ask what we as staff who turn up everyday as scheduled can do? What actions or inactions are us frontline staff doing that are causing these consequences?

You won't answer that will you though because you can't actually give a proper answer, you just continue to criticise the wrong people.....