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Northern Class 170's

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61653 HTAFC

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Can anyone say what the refurbished Northern 170s are like? I would like to know before they come onto services around Hull. Thanks.
The refurbished ones I've had have been fine, other than the flat cloth on the seats which get mucky rather quickly... though AIUI the future refurbishments will include moquette. Not sure if those already done will be re-done though.
 
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Killingworth

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The refurbished ones I've had have been fine, other than the flat cloth on the seats which get mucky rather quickly... though AIUI the future refurbishments will include moquette. Not sure if those already done will be re-done though.

Looking at some of it, already in a state you don't want to sit on after only a few months, if they don't redo it there'll be a lot more standees!
 

Neptune

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From new timetable the Harrogate line will become exclusively 170 barring a couple of peak time 150 workings to keep Harrogate crews compliant on the type.

They will also work the aforementioned Sheffield to Hull service.

Leeds to Selby revert to a mixture of 14x and 15x units.
 

Kieran1990

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From new timetable the Harrogate line will become exclusively 170 barring a couple of peak time 150 workings to keep Harrogate crews compliant on the type.

They will also work the aforementioned Sheffield to Hull service.

Leeds to Selby revert to a mixture of 14x and 15x units.

So out of the 16 off peak
3x York-Leeds
2x Knasbourgh- Leeds
2x Leeds-Harrogate
5x Bridlington-Sheffield
10 for off peak work
Or are they to work Hull-Sheffield as well? Circa 4 units?
Making 14. Assume another 1 or 2 for Harrogate extra’s at peak time?
 

Andyh82

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In the space of a few days we’ve had a report that 170s are coming off the Harrogates, and then next that they will run all Harrogates!
 

Harvey B

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So out of the 16 off peak
3x York-Leeds
2x Knasbourgh- Leeds
2x Leeds-Harrogate
5x Bridlington-Sheffield
10 for off peak work
Or are they to work Hull-Sheffield as well? Circa 4 units?
Making 14. Assume another 1 or 2 for Harrogate extra’s at peak time?
Will the 170s run an interworked service between Leeds an Sheffield to run on the sheffield to Bridlington services. If then how will they actually transfer.
 

Kieran1990

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Will the 170s run an interworked service between Leeds an Sheffield to run on the sheffield to Bridlington services. If then how will they actually transfer.

The Leeds-Sheffield/Lincoln inter-work with the Leeds-Nottingham.
So potentially doesn’t work but someone on the inside may know more.

We shall just have to wait and see what happens in 4/5 weeks time.
 

Killingworth

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Whatever the stock intended to be used in timetables showing on places like RTT the stock that appears will be what's available. The Hope Valley line has been timed for 15x units since last May but Pacers continue to appear on some workings.

The public timetables from May have been on the Northern website for about 2 weeks.
 

PomWombat

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Whatever the stock intended to be used in timetables showing on places like RTT the stock that appears will be what's available.

It looks to me like the 170s have been put into a pool with the 158s now ... So a 2-car 158 can turn up, maybe once or twice a week, where a 3-car 170 has reliably built up customer expectations for nearly a year now. It doesn't work out too well.

It'll be interesting to see if the 170 can manage to squeeze in those extra 1 tph Leeds-Harrogate services in May, if this change is to be believed.
 

EIKN

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Will it be Class 158 or 170 from Doncaster - Scunthorpe- Cleethorpes does anyone know please ?
 

deltic08

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In the space of a few days we’ve had a report that 170s are coming off the Harrogates, and then next that they will run all Harrogates!
158s are better on the Harrogate Loop because of lower gearing and greater acceleration from stations. As the linespeed is 60mph it makes no difference that a 170 has a top speed of 100mph. There have been fewer on this line in recent weeks with more Pacers and 150s than 170s.
 

superkev

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158s are better on the Harrogate Loop because of lower gearing and greater acceleration from stations. As the linespeed is 60mph it makes no difference that a 170 has a top speed of 100mph. There have been fewer on this line in recent weeks with more Pacers and 150s than 170s.
As has been mentioned a few times before the 170s fuel and oil consumption on the Harrogate line hss been horrendous due to them not getting out of 1st gear due to the 60mph line speed. I'm sure Northern would like to use them elsewhere but not many places they can stretch there legs round here. For me the few 3 car 158s would fit Harrogate best and are probably Northerns best thought of dmus.
K
 

Harvey B

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From new timetable the Harrogate line will become exclusively 170 barring a couple of peak time 150 workings to keep Harrogate crews compliant on the type.

They will also work the aforementioned Sheffield to Hull service.

Leeds to Selby revert to a mixture of 14x and 15x units.

I wonder if this change in stock might only last until the December timetable change, i'm thinking that the number of 170s will probably be cut back on the Harrogate line and they'll probably be replaced by 15x units again and then those 170s could be displaced back on Leeds to Selby service.
 

Bletchleyite

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As has been mentioned a few times before the 170s fuel and oil consumption on the Harrogate line hss been horrendous due to them not getting out of 1st gear due to the 60mph line speed. I'm sure Northern would like to use them elsewhere but not many places they can stretch there legs round here. For me the few 3 car 158s would fit Harrogate best and are probably Northerns best thought of dmus.

Once they are delivered Class 195s will be the most suitable units Northern have due to the mechanical transmission. Logic, not that that will apply, would be to use those there and the 170s on Northern Connect instead.

The door layout makes 158s unsuitable for local stopping services.
 

deltic08

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As has been mentioned a few times before the 170s fuel and oil consumption on the Harrogate line hss been horrendous due to them not getting out of 1st gear due to the 60mph line speed. I'm sure Northern would like to use them elsewhere but not many places they can stretch there legs round here. For me the few 3 car 158s would fit Harrogate best and are probably Northerns best thought of dmus.
K
The obvious answer is to raise the linespeed to 70mph which is an easy fix on this line.
Heritage DMUs regularly reached this speed before black boxes were introduced, especially downhill through Bramhope tunnel and across Arthington viaduct to Pannal.
I once rode in the cab of a Deltic on a late running Yorkshire Pullman ecs from Leeds Neville Hill to Harrogate and we climbed up to Horsforth at 75mph and shot out of Bramhope tunnel at 90mph riding very nicely. We did Leeds to Harrogate in under 19 minutes. Note the speed limit through Horsforth at that time was 45mph which was taken at 65mph.
 
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northernchris

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So out of the 16 off peak
3x York-Leeds
2x Knasbourgh- Leeds
2x Leeds-Harrogate
5x Bridlington-Sheffield
10 for off peak work
Or are they to work Hull-Sheffield as well? Circa 4 units?
Making 14. Assume another 1 or 2 for Harrogate extra’s at peak time?

I thought Bridlington - Sheffield required 6 units? I suspect at least one of either the 1727 Leeds-Selby or 1743 Leeds-York will be worked by a 170 too. It may be that these units get back to Leeds by working a Sheffield - Leeds at the end of the day
 

PomWombat

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The 170s are slow to accelerate on the Harrogate line, but it appears to make no difference to the end arrival time compared to pacers and 150s. Perhaps the doors at thirds, and the wide, straight gangway just helps with better dwell times.

One aspect where the 170 absolutely makes a difference is with capacity in the peaks. It gobbles the crowds at Horsforth, with room for more at Headingley and Burley Park, and it does so indivisibly. 3-car 158s seem slower to load, while 2-car 158s are even slower and leave people behind.

If the 170s have to leave, they're going to have to go somewhere else that is busy. They can only realistically be replaced, from a capacity perspective, by a 3-car 158 or a pair of 150 units.

I wonder what stock will be most suitable when an airport station gets added?

There have been fewer on this line in recent weeks with more Pacers and 150s than 170s.

I can only speak for weekday peak hours, but recently 150s and Pacers have remained on the same diagrams allocated to them since December - there might be more units, because they seem to short-form less frequently now.

In the last month, the 170 diagrams have indeed reduced a little, with perhaps 10% being replaced by 158 (rather than 150/14X) split 50:50 between 3-car and unsuitable 2-car units.

From my observations while commuting, March produced one of the best months for capacity on the line, especially in the AM peak, where 92% of traction was no smaller than the 3-car turbostars (81% being 3-car 170/158, 11% being 4-car 150).
 

185102

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I believe the 170 transfer paths for hull are ecs from Leeds Holbeck to hull detaching a 170 at Selby for York, then the 2244 hull to leeds northern service.
 

Spartacus

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Had my first refurbished one today out of Deighton and I do prefer the seats to the Scotrail ones as the fabric doesn’t have a tendency to move independent of the cushion, meaning that you stay where you sat, instead of sliding down, and the removal of the prominent headrest meant it was simple to get a comfy position.

Strange encountering one just now at Dewsbury with all engines shut down waiting to be passed by the Scarborough, it made me wonder at first if it had failed!
 

Class455

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Is the loaning of a Class 170 to TPE expected to end tomorrow? Travelled on 170477 today which should be the last 170 to work the Leeds-Huddersfield services for TPE
 

61653 HTAFC

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Is the loaning of a Class 170 to TPE expected to end tomorrow? Travelled on 170477 today which should be the last 170 to work the Leeds-Huddersfield services for TPE
I believe so. I also caught 477 earlier, the first time I've seen a Northern 170 with functioning PIS rather than simply displaying "Class 170 Turbostar".
 
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