Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

Mogster

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25 Sep 2018
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752
The brakes seem to be much quieter on these, and the 331s and the TPE Mk5s now. The squealing when they were applied was quite painful to the ears initially. Has something changed or have the brakes just bedded in?
 
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Llama

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They don't 'bed in', the dynamic brake is operational on the 331s now though and works down to almost a standstill.
 

Roger B

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16 Jun 2018
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Gatley
So I kicked back and complained about their response not addressing my complaint. They will raise the issue of lack of grab handles in the vestibules.

My suggestion that all grab handles on 195s should be yellow to make them more noticeable, especially those in recesses by the doors, was met with a suggestion that anyone who needs help in seeing grab handles should book assistance!

I give up.
Sounds like you're doing a great job. Don't give up now, when you're starting to get some traction.

As things stand, regrettably, sooner or later someone's going to get hurt standing on one of these trains. And that'll start a chain of events: firstly, a solicitor being appointed to seek financial compensation - and Northern will be in a weak position, having been informed repeatedly about the situation. And if the person injured has a disability, or is a child, it's not too-far fetched (albeit fairly unlikely) to see the whole fleet grounded until it's been made 'safe'. Then there will be a review of how / why it happened (although probably outside the remit of the RAIB), and options for remediating, and then implementation. It would be far cheaper for Northern just to get on with addressing this now, until waiting until it's pushed, with the attendant bad-publicity. And with Northern now being run by DfT, there will be nowhere to hide.
 

Mogster

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25 Sep 2018
Messages
752
They don't 'bed in', the dynamic brake is operational on the 331s now though and works down to almost a standstill.
OK. Something has made a noticeable difference. The screeching previously was quite horrible. All the new CAF stock was doing it even the TPE trains, they are fine now, very quiet.
 

Llama

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If they ever 'bedded in', they'd have done so long ago, most units have done many hundreds or thousands of miles before they even enter passenger service during testing, training and moves between depots. I've not noticed any difference at all in brake noise on 195s or 331s since the regen was largely reinstated on 331s, and I drive both types pretty much every day.

Also the pads would have been changed many times on all units in service.
 

thejuggler

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Joined
8 Jan 2016
Messages
805
Not good for me the last couple of days.

Leeds Chester unit. Guard couldn't unlock doors from the outside. Full System reset required but it took so long I went for another service to Halifax.

This morning a Blackpool unit had failed at Bradford blocking platform 1. This is a problem early morning as there are already two platforms blocked with stabled units - a service to Huddersfield and the Kings Cross service. Only one operational platform meant a 12 minute delay getting into the station (this is becoming a common problem, even the shortest delay to any service holds up others).

Service just now which is usually a 195 was a 150 with an updated interior with absolutely filthy seats. If you want to see what the 195 seats will be like in 4-5 years it was a good example to show Northern.
 

Llama

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29 Apr 2014
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1,694
In what respect do they? A unit with new pads brakes exactly the same as a unit with worn pads. Brake blocks on tread braked stock have to bed in because the blocks are cast iron and are usually a larger radius arc profile than the wheeltread they are applied to when new.
 

superkev

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1 Mar 2015
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west yorkshire
Hi.
Anyone advise on the latest position with deliveries and entry into service. I still have 195 022, 023, 024, 130 in store at Edge hill with add on order 131, 132 133 still to deliver.
Thanks
Kev
 

1D53

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022 driver training unit at Wigan, 023 training at Doncaster, 024 at Edge Hill, 130 training at Huddersfield.
 

ic31420

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23 Aug 2017
Messages
171
There is no doubt the 195's are a massive upgrade on the 15x's, but boy-o-boy it takes forever to unlock the doors.

A Merseyrail train would be on its way by the time a 195 has unlocked.
Where does the delay come from.

If a 195 and a 150 rolled into a station at the same time. Where does the door opening process / times differ? Is it simply the 195 takes longer to respond to the button pressed? I presume there is software and processing involved on a 195 where its more relays and mechanical interlocking on a 150.
 

156441

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30 Aug 2011
Messages
501
Location
Manchester
Where does the delay come from.

If a 195 and a 150 rolled into a station at the same time. Where does the door opening process / times differ? Is it simply the 195 takes longer to respond to the button pressed? I presume there is software and processing involved on a 195 where its more relays and mechanical interlocking on a 150.
The answer to that question has many variables but let’s look at the slowest case scenario.

A multiple platform station (let’s say Oxford Road)

Northerns ASDO (Automatic selective door opening) system relies on input to tell it which platform it has arrived on. Only opening the correct amount of doors (length) and on the correct platform side.
This is done in two ways. Via a track beacon (you may have seen the yellow strips at the start and ends of platforms which TPE use) or via Driver input on arrival at the station.

Northern have chosen not to use track beacons. (Assuming down to costs for the number of stations we have) so the onus falls upon the driver to select the correct platform.

The problem then is Northern Drivers aren’t allowed to program the ASDO system once a journey has commenced.

So the 195/331s are fitted with a SDO/ASDO override switch at each door control panel for use by the guard.

So you arrive at the station and the guard has to use this switch, you’ll potentially hear 3 door releases and if your on the 3rd wave it’s going to seem like a long time.

Door release one is the guards local, which is reasonably slow. They have to then step onto the platform and check the train is accommodated and safe to open doors before stepping back onto the train to release. (Conventional units you can usually reach the door control from the platform and on a 150 your not fighting with commuters to get back on). Once the conductor gets back on they have to select ‘doors forward’ and release doors forward of their position before selecting ‘doors rear’ to open the doors rearward of their position (if applicable).

So if your to the rear of the guard your going to wait longer than those forward of the guard to get off/on.

This also explains why the door not in use symbols light up both sides on arrival at a multi platform station.
Hope that makes a bit of sense?
 

samuelmorris

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18 Jul 2013
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4,587
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Brentwood, Essex
The answer to that question has many variables but let’s look at the slowest case scenario.

A multiple platform station (let’s say Oxford Road)

Northerns ASDO (Automatic selective door opening) system relies on input to tell it which platform it has arrived on. Only opening the correct amount of doors (length) and on the correct platform side.
This is done in two ways. Via a track beacon (you may have seen the yellow strips at the start and ends of platforms which TPE use) or via Driver input on arrival at the station.

Northern have chosen not to use track beacons. (Assuming down to costs for the number of stations we have) so the onus falls upon the driver to select the correct platform.

The problem then is Northern Drivers aren’t allowed to program the ASDO system once a journey has commenced.

So the 195/331s are fitted with a SDO/ASDO override switch at each door control panel for use by the guard.

So you arrive at the station and the guard has to use this switch, you’ll potentially hear 3 door releases and if your on the 3rd wave it’s going to seem like a long time.

Door release one is the guards local, which is reasonably slow. They have to then step onto the platform and check the train is accommodated and safe to open doors before stepping back onto the train to release. (Conventional units you can usually reach the door control from the platform and on a 150 your not fighting with commuters to get back on). Once the conductor gets back on they have to select ‘doors forward’ and release doors forward of their position before selecting ‘doors rear’ to open the doors rearward of their position (if applicable).

So if your to the rear of the guard your going to wait longer than those forward of the guard to get off/on.

This also explains why the door not in use symbols light up both sides on arrival at a multi platform station.
Hope that makes a bit of sense?
Thanks for the detailed explanation, I've been struggling to get my ahead around why this still seems like an issue. That's a great help.
 

InOban

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Joined
12 Mar 2017
Messages
2,635
The answer to that question has many variables but let’s look at the slowest case scenario.

A multiple platform station (let’s say Oxford Road)

Northerns ASDO (Automatic selective door opening) system relies on input to tell it which platform it has arrived on. Only opening the correct amount of doors (length) and on the correct platform side.
This is done in two ways. Via a track beacon (you may have seen the yellow strips at the start and ends of platforms which TPE use) or via Driver input on arrival at the station.

Northern have chosen not to use track beacons. (Assuming down to costs for the number of stations we have) so the onus falls upon the driver to select the correct platform.

The problem then is Northern Drivers aren’t allowed to program the ASDO system once a journey has commenced.

So the 195/331s are fitted with a SDO/ASDO override switch at each door control panel for use by the guard.

So you arrive at the station and the guard has to use this switch, you’ll potentially hear 3 door releases and if your on the 3rd wave it’s going to seem like a long time.

Door release one is the guards local, which is reasonably slow. They have to then step onto the platform and check the train is accommodated and safe to open doors before stepping back onto the train to release. (Conventional units you can usually reach the door control from the platform and on a 150 your not fighting with commuters to get back on). Once the conductor gets back on they have to select ‘doors forward’ and release doors forward of their position before selecting ‘doors rear’ to open the doors rearward of their position (if applicable).

So if your to the rear of the guard your going to wait longer than those forward of the guard to get off/on.

This also explains why the door not in use symbols light up both sides on arrival at a multi platform station.
Hope that makes a bit of sense?
What a shambles. You couldn't make it up.
 

AMD

Member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
336
So the 195/331s are fitted with a SDO/ASDO override switch at each door control panel for use by the guard.
Also the speed depends upon the familiarity and experience of the guard, in that now that i'm used to 195s the door process is no slower than a 158, and a few of them can be really slow at opening the local door......
 

superkev

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1 Mar 2015
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Location
west yorkshire
130 is in passenger traffic on Man airport Barrow/Windermere first time I've seen it in service has it been out before?
What's the position with the remaing 3 units 195 031, 032, 033 which were an add on order after some if the electrifcation was "Graylinged".
Slightly off topic but are all the 331s now delivered.
K
 

Jamesrob637

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12 Aug 2016
Messages
1,840
Someone has kindly reminded me that there was an order/gifting for three extra 195s not three extra 331s. So it'll be these which aren't yet built/in service while all the "current" order should be delivered soon if not already.
 

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