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Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Haydn1971, 2 Apr 2016.
Ironing boards. And too short; they should have been 3 and 4-car sets.
I hope not! A minimum formation through the Castlefield corridor sounds sensible though
That is ridiculous. On what planet do they thing that’s going to be enough?
Maybe the plan secretly is to get the 142s a reprieve and for each 195 to drag one along as extra capacity
Indeed. If a route genuinely only needs 2-car, it needs to be portion-worked with another such route.
Possibly Bradford-Airport and Barrow/Windermere-Airport will be 2 coaches. I very much hope Liverpool-Airport will not be!
I would like to see the CLC, Windermere and if possible Barrow Northern Connect services run by battery powered 350s refurbished to Northern Connect spec. Blackpool-Airport Northern Connect too (interworked with the others to increase to reduce recharging issues because of delays). 4 x 20m 110mph sets would be much more suitable for services into Manchester and a lot of the new units would be freed up for other work.
I might be wrong that there will be no double 195s but 10 out of 12 Northern Connect routes will be run by 195s (Blackpool-Airport by 4 coach 331s and Carlisle-Middlesbrough by 158s). 25 x 2 coach and 33 x 3 coach 195s. Journey times of between just over 1 hour to nearly 3. Consider the need for spares and do the maths, there cannot be that many double units planned!
I hope not. At present they are mostly 4-car Class 156 formations, which is about right for the demand. A 2-car Class 195 will be a substantial capacity downgrade even on a single Class 156, let alone two.
I genuinely can't think of a single Northern "express" route for which a 2-car DMU with a lot of space not used for seats (due to accessible bog etc) is even vaguely suitable. I was of the understanding that the 2-car order was because the ROSCOs wanted 2-car sets so they can be cascaded onto branch lines as wires are put up, so they (like Chiltern's sets) would mostly run in multiple. Any intention to actually run them as 2-car sets is ludicrous.
You missed out the "possibly" when you quoted me! Something is going to give. There are 176 coaches for 10 services, most of them around 2 hours each way.
Aren't a number of the Connect routes to use Class 170s? The Southport route certainly was, though I think Southport has been tweaked about a bit and may if I recall possibly get a Class 769 operated service via Picc instead. And I believe the 3 additional units which I think are 3-car are for Windermere.
Southport will not have a Northern Connect service. When it was announced 90% of services were going to be run by new units, now with 3 more ordered it will be a bit higher. I think its 158s for Carlisle-Middlesbrough, 331s for Blackpool-Airport and 195s for the rest.
The fact they have ordered 2 car units was bad enough when it was announced, then we subsequently had the announcement that even the quietest branch line in deepest East Anglia will be being run with at least 3 cars, and it became even worse.
What’s the betting that Northern will take up the options available to them for extra carriages to increase 2 to 3 or 3 to 4? I expect not very likely and then by the time the new franchise starts the rigs will have been destroyed.
What is more of a certainty is the launch of the 195s being ruined by complaints of overcrowding.
According to the Orr statistics, just over 400,000 passengers used Windermere in the latest year. That's, say, 1200 arrivals or departures, spread over about twenty services. So the average number of passengers at Windermere was 30. With another 15 using Kendal. So for most services, most of the year, a 2-coach train is more than adequate.
As long as it stays on the branch and doesn't adventure to Preston and south thereof.
30 is the average but we all know the huge difference between Winter and the Summer holiday peaks.
Northern made a point of going to local schools on the Furness Line and saying 'there will be an extra carriage on your services from next year' in 2017. Since then obviously the 195 plan has being delayed, but considering the trains they're meant to be replacing (the 3 coach 185s) and that statement (because what kind of evil TOC would lie to children?) saying that 2 coach 156s would be replaced with three coach trains, I'd consider it unlikely that the Furness and Windermere lines get 2 coach units. As well, the three additional units ordered to make up for the Windermere electrification cancellation are three coaches.
Unless the 195s become part of the new and improved Random Connect Unit Generator?
I highly doubt the Liverpool to Manchester Airport via Warrington service will be served by 2 coach 195s. At the moment it's doubled 156s of 4 carriages.
Not to mention, I doubt Network Rail will be very happy with an existing 4 carriage service becoming a 2 carriage given the current dwell problems at Piccadilly platforms 13/14 and passengers with luggage from the Airport. 3 carriage 195s seem best suited.
If it was captive on the branch. But it is also a Manchester to Preston service.
the seats really are ironing boards, and very thin as well. I recently travelled on a Thameslink class 700 and found the seats awful. The problem was not the backs, but the base, which has a very thin layer of padding and I could feel a metal bar, which unfortunately for people of a boney pelvic structure is very uncomfortable indeed
Currently there is no Windermere - Airport service. The Windermere - Piccadilly workings are 2-car 156s that portion work with a Blackpool - Piccadilly service, providing a 4-car formation between Preston and Piccadilly.
Currently Barrow - Airport workings are mostly 3-car 185s, some, but not all, of which pick up/drop off a second unit at Preston. So a mix of 3-car and 6-car formations between Preston and the Airport. A couple of evening Airport services are worked by a single 158.
Are there any doors between carriages on the 195s?
No, they're through-gangwayed - see https://www.globalrailnews.com/2018/02/01/northerns-new-class-emu-unveiled-at-zaragoza/
That photo shows a door so the answer is yes.
I may have misinterpreted the question. I read the 'doors between carriages' question as doors that control access between the carriages, not that the main doors are situated in the middle of each vehicle rather than at the ends, which I'd have thought is fairly obvious from the outside? There is no inter-carriage door in that photo, only some tape across the gangway connection.
It's a glass door. You can see the light reflecting off it.
The depressing fact is that there seems to be no mention of a capacity increase on Northern’s busiest services.
The new units interiors will quickly look knackered due to extreme footfall.
331s will run doubled up in peaks in Yorkshire. Electrification, 319s, 769s and sprinters replacing pacers will provide more commuter capacity in the Northwest.
Interesting you say that. I can feel that bar on the Class 800 but not on any variety of ironing board.
The issue of ongoing industrial action can't be far from Northern's mind.
The Class 195s and Class 331s do not have inter-vehicle doors, glass or otherwise.
So even less of an intercity feel.
The 195s do look to be more suited to metro type stopping services than the longer distance Northern Connect routes they are going to be deployed on.